Aftermarket Product ReviewProvide questions and answers about aftermarket parts for the Third Generation F-Body.
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sorry about all the cam Q's, but Ive got to get this right the first time. When I asked about what cam would work best in the 383 with tpi and vortec heads you told me the comp cams xr269hr, which is a good cam, but it is a Roller.
Im planning on using a flat-tappet cam. The closest I could find was the comp cams XE268H, custom marine cam.
Those specs are with 1.5 rockers, Iam not sure if 1.6 rockers would be better but they would put the cam in the meat of the flow. something like 509/512. Is this a good cam to use, Its near identical to yours with the 1.6 rocker only its a flat tappet. I think this is the cam Im going to go with, but let me know what you think...
__________________ 87 Iroc Camaro 383ci Vortec Heads, 64cc (1.94/1.60 valves) Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake, 750 Demon vac secondary, Comp Cams 493/508 lift with 224/230 duration @.50 110 lobe seperation, Harland Sharp 1.6 Rockers,Edelbrock Water pump B&M Aluminum Flywhee,l 2500 Stall, 3.73 gears, edelbrock 1 5/8 Headers Nickle-Chrome,Custom exhaust gutted (open) Smog/air delete ,Hei Distributor, To Much to list
I have used the comp cams marine series cams for LTR fuel injected engines and they work quite well. I think the one I used was a step down from what you have listed. The duration looks a little on the large side.
I do, but its kinda expensive for retro-fit cams. And when I bought the 383 I got such a good deal I wasnt thinking about the 87 up deal. 800 bucks fully assembled forged pistons, and oil pan, balancer, speed pro forged pistons, Water pump. So I got a great deal, But now im seeing that a roller motor would have been better. Do you guys really think, Just switching to roller will add that much power??? how much are we talking here??? I thought rollers helped alot at higher rpms, but I really dont plan on going much higher then 5500-6000 so??? But Ive done lots of searches on it and everyone says roller is better, obviously, but by how much??? 20-30-40 horse, at what rpm??? Well Ive already got the heads and intake, So I guess if I went roller it would take a bit longer to get it in but, Im just curious if the 600 dollars is really worth it to go roller??? LET ME KNOW!!
iroczman380
__________________ 87 Iroc Camaro 383ci Vortec Heads, 64cc (1.94/1.60 valves) Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake, 750 Demon vac secondary, Comp Cams 493/508 lift with 224/230 duration @.50 110 lobe seperation, Harland Sharp 1.6 Rockers,Edelbrock Water pump B&M Aluminum Flywhee,l 2500 Stall, 3.73 gears, edelbrock 1 5/8 Headers Nickle-Chrome,Custom exhaust gutted (open) Smog/air delete ,Hei Distributor, To Much to list
Yes, it is worth it ! It will give you a little more horsepower. But, you will also gain better throttle response, less maintainance, better wear (engine life), less internal engine noise ( remember you have a knock sensor that WILL pull out timing for any valve train noise), etc.....
It's well worth it ! Save your money to do it right.
Just my $.02
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Man this is the perfect thread, you guys have provided some killer information, but of course with good comes some bad. I don't know if you guys have fried my brain or if its just to late, so I need some info on what im doing to my 91z28. I will thank everyone ahead of time, being a college student im on a very limited budget and really can't afford to make expensive mistakes.
Heres what I got so far, but not installed:
350 2 bolt main (40 over)
Scat 9000 383 crank
Speed Pro hyper pistons (11 to 1)
5.7 Eagle Forged Rods
Dart Sportman Heads (2.02/1.60 200cc intake runners/ ported and polished/ manely valves)
1.5 crane engerizer roller rockers
isky custom ground cam .485/.510 lift 224/234 @.05
headman shorty headers 1 5/8 primary going to 3"collectors
#24lb injectors
The car has a 305 tpi and a 700r4 right now
Now heres my dilemma after reading all your guys posts. Would it be so much easier just do go with a carb and a vict jr intake vs trying to figure out all the tpi stuff. I had orginally wanted to stay with the tpi setup but it seems thats really going to sufficate the air flow, but the tpi is so much "cooler" LOL. I am just looking for a low 13 sec car that is alot of fun on the street (tired of being smoked by those damn ponies). Anyway any thoughts on if I should try to make the tipi system work or should I just go with the carb, would greatly be appreciated!
O irocman if you do go with the retrofit roller I have heard some really bad things about cranes setup. Can't remember actually what forum I was on, but it seems that the brackets between the lifters that keeps the lifters from spinning, break, and as you can imagine the roller ends up eating the cam, destroying your valves, heads, etc etc.......It wasn't just one person that this had happened either, it was more like 5 or 6.......Hopefully you can do some searching and find it......they provided some pretty gruesome photos........
You need spacers to fit vette and or 4thgen wheels on a thirdgen.
The pic of my car with those wheels was a photoshopped pic.
www.skulte.com sells the adapter spacers that you would need.
You are also going to need at least 24 lb injectors and I wouldn't go with the stock TPI intake. Get a high-flow base and runners or buy a stealth-ram or converted LT-1 intake.
Your combo sounds pretty strong so far, dont choke it with the stock intake.
Good luck!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
No,,, dont go with crane, I wouldnt ever go with crane. Comp has always been my number 1 choice. Comps cams camshafts make more power with the exact same specs as cranes. So which one would you go with???
IROCZMAN380
__________________ 87 Iroc Camaro 383ci Vortec Heads, 64cc (1.94/1.60 valves) Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake, 750 Demon vac secondary, Comp Cams 493/508 lift with 224/230 duration @.50 110 lobe seperation, Harland Sharp 1.6 Rockers,Edelbrock Water pump B&M Aluminum Flywhee,l 2500 Stall, 3.73 gears, edelbrock 1 5/8 Headers Nickle-Chrome,Custom exhaust gutted (open) Smog/air delete ,Hei Distributor, To Much to list
well... little late but on the topic of cams from the previous page and such...
has anyone heard of the new comp lobes out... Combinations Motorsports has a Xtreme Energy 227/233 .560 .569 w/ 1.6s on either a 111, 112, or 114 LSA...
making good power in some of the LT1 cars right now.
just thought i would throw that out there. i am gonna run that cam in my 355 i am building w/ LT1 intake... i couldn't decide between the 224/230 or the 230/236... so heck i just split the diffence and got the CMotorsports cam...
The 230/236 would be better for a shorter runner setup like the LT-1 or Stealth-ram as long as your heads flow decent.
The 224/230 is about as big as you should go with a LTR TPI style intake and I would only use that with a LTR TPI if your heads flow well also.
The best thing to do is to have your heads flow benched. Then decide on what intake you will use. With that information, you can now make a better educated decision on what cam to use. Thats what I did.
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
i know what the heads flow... i got a set of TFS 23* heads from a dealer for cheap. said he flowed them out of curiousity and they were every bit of what TFS advertised and more as a matter of fact. didn't have a flow sheet, but i am really good friends w/ this guy so i trust what he said. When he flowed them they peaked at like 260 @.550".
that being said i am probably going to run a LT1 intake a buddy of mine had on his car. that and the 227/233 and see how it goes. my buddy w/ a stock bottom end LT1, ported heads that flow around 270 @ .600 w/ DECENT low lift numbers ( my low lift is better than his) and a 224/230 cam is running 12.30s on hot days... so my combo should be similar to his.
UNTIL THE TRANNY GOES KAPUT!!!
__________________ Chris Martin
Director Public Relations - Middle Tennessee F-Body Association - www.tnfbody.org
- 1989 TA: built 355 c.i.d., HSR, TFS 23* heads, 227/233 .560"/.569" 112 LSA, ProBuilt 700r4, Edge 3400 2.5 STR Converter
[i]
O irocman if you do go with the retrofit roller I have heard some really bad things about cranes setup. Can't remember actually what forum I was on, but it seems that the brackets between the lifters that keeps the lifters from spinning, break, and as you can imagine the roller ends up eating the cam, destroying your valves, heads, etc etc.......It wasn't just one person that this had happened either, it was more like 5 or 6.......Hopefully you can do some searching and find it......they provided some pretty gruesome photos........ [/b]
Apparently, this isn't restricted to Crane. I had the same thing happen to my Comp Cams set-up. If you look at the pins holding the brackets, they are very small. I don't believe there is much strain on these pins but considering their importance, you'd think they would be a lot beefier.
That's awfully scary, hearing that the link bars are letting go on hyd roller lifters. I'm puzzled though, cause aren't those the same link bar designs that have been used on racing solid roller lifters for decades? It seems like if they were so failure prone, there would have been some huge **** storm a long time ago.
This, by the way, is the mother of all threads!
I can cancel my subscription to CHP, everything I need to know is right here.
How to build a budget stroker that runs 12.0 sec.
Last edited by Streetiron85; 12-15-2003 at 10:30 AM.
I'm still here, I have just been really busy lately (work). As far as my car goes, I need to buy a new 9 bolt posi unit (from 9bolt.com, I guess) before I can do anymore with my car. My posi unit is shot (slips like crazy, and has already ben shimmed twice). There are only 1/8 mile tracks where I live now, so I'll have to get used to that. I've also been distracted, 'cause I just bought an '03 10th Anniversary SVT Cobra (Supercharged 4.6L) - what a bad ride (for a Ford)! With an exhuast, chip, cold air, and supercharger pulley, the car will be near 450 RWHP. So I have been spending time (and money) on the Cobra instead of the IROC.
Have fun with the Darkside, Mike. I know all of us here deep down would love to play with that SC'd 4.6 and run the heck out of it, but you just won't hear us say out loud. Have fun with the new toy, but don't forget about the old one.
Joe
__________________ 2002 SOM ws6 M6, the 91 never was ressurected after the fire...
Old cars:
91 Z w/383 , all forged bottom end, miniram, TPIS ZZ-X cam, Ported AFR 210's, Pro-built trans, Vig 3200 stall, Hooker LT's, drag susp., 17x9 ROH Snypers, and quite a bit more. 375 rwhp 375 rwtq.
89 Iroc, SuperRam, 219 cam, AFR 190's, sold to the old man, now has 406, runs 11's.
I know all of us here deep down would love to play with that SC'd 4.6 and run the heck out of it, but you just won't hear us say out loud. Have fun with the new toy, but don't forget about the old one.
Very true there camarojoe. - Fast is fast. - I love my GM's, but it's all cool if it goes fast... As stated, don't forget about your old toys Mike.
You can't knock that little 4.6. My roomates '02 GT just made 317hp/314ftlbs at the wheels n/a. not bad for 281ci.
- I'm slowly starting to put mine back together after complete tear-down to find a knecklace charm on top of #4 piston...
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
AGREED!!! If I had any idea as to who's it was...well, they'd be lucky if they got to eat christmas dinner through a tube...
If it wasn't for bad luck...
Well, I'm going to put a manual trans in it while it's apart. I just need to come up w/ a decent 5 or 6-speed.
oh yeah, here's the specs on my new hyd roller. -
242/246 @ .050, 567/585 on a 112 centerline.
hehehe...this things gonna be nasty...
later, justin...
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
got 11.96 @ 113.5 running on a busted trans... split the case on the 700R.
finally getting some big kid parts... TH 400 t-brake, moser 12bolt with suitable gearing...looking at 4.30's. and retiring the vac sec carb for a 750 dp.
the 40year old 780 vac sec carb i was using... was hurting the cause at the short end, i'm sure.
The screwy part the 11.96 and a pair of 12.0 runs were all done on a split 700R4... cracked the case on it, punched a hole in the bell, and fluid was spurting out the top... at the 1000 foot marke the car got an ugly high frequency vibration that made your hands numb on the wheel... two runs of that vibration.. and i yanked it off the track and hunted it down... to the busted 700R.
it was really strugling at the top end on those three runs
i'm hoping with all the enw goodies to get 116 mph out of it
Well I figure since this is the thread that had the greatest influence on the direction my buildup took, I will share here first the track times of my maiden voyage.
This was my first time ever taking a car down the track. I was nervous as all heck, driving a drag race at the track is no easy task. I couldnt do anything right: terrible reaction time, couldnt launch and broke em loose spinning all the way through 1st, couldnt shift it properly as I was bouncing off the rev limiter, and to boot I kept my foot into it way after the traps and had to exit from the brake failure ramp.
I got a setup close to Mike Crews, But I got sportmans heads and TPIS LTR's. Cam is a ZZ9 from TPIS 212/226 @.050. I'll be running it soon after I get some slicks and a O2 sensor problem fixed. Onimous my first run down the strip was the same.
__________________ 383 Stroker with TPIS large tube runners and base 52 mm TB
TPIS ZZ9 cam 1.6 Rollers
24# injectors, Sportmans heads
Spohn torgue arm, Home made SFC
Hedman long tube 1 5/8 headers
Great running car, Ominous! What #'s did that thing put out? I know it had really good hp and a crap load of tq...
Ask and you shall recieve. Nothing but full disclosure for those who seek the truth. #s are SAE
Quote:
Very Nice.. specially for the first time out!!!!
Hey PK, forgot to PM you, but I put that Speed Demon 750 out to you by UPS, when I get home I will PM you the tracking #, I hope it helps in you break through 115mph like a Rockstar.
__________________ Superram 385 Stroker Motor & All The Fixins!
Ominous,
You got the super ram setup on a 383 with AFR heads and a xr276hr-12 cam don't ya. Thats A real Sweet Clip.
__________________ 383 Stroker with TPIS large tube runners and base 52 mm TB
TPIS ZZ9 cam 1.6 Rollers
24# injectors, Sportmans heads
Spohn torgue arm, Home made SFC
Hedman long tube 1 5/8 headers
Ominous,
You got the super ram setup on a 383 with AFR heads and a xr276hr-12 cam don't ya. Thats A real Sweet Clip.
LOL my friend, AFR heads, not on my motor!!! Not now not ever, I dont support that company in any way!!!:lala:
My power is produced by Edelbrock, but I consider myself an honorary member of the Vortec crowd.
385, E-Tec 170, SDPC Base, Superram Upper, CC XR276HR-12, blah blah blah and everything else under the sun to make it run hard, NA that is, and dont forget the stock 48mm TB. Scored the heads for 900$ shipped new.
Note that I built my motor, ported the intake, cleaned up the heads, and put my car together from the ground up with my own 2 hands along with my freinds of course.
__________________ Superram 385 Stroker Motor & All The Fixins!
I'm not a vortec user but my heads do flow about the same. I was curious just to see how close are setups are to each other. I would love to have the super ram to go with mine. You think you could get in the 11's with you're setup and traction? I would like to see it.
__________________ 383 Stroker with TPIS large tube runners and base 52 mm TB
TPIS ZZ9 cam 1.6 Rollers
24# injectors, Sportmans heads
Spohn torgue arm, Home made SFC
Hedman long tube 1 5/8 headers
You think you could get in the 11's with you're setup and traction?
All day long.
MPH is the indicator of what a car is capable of. 60' times tell you exactly how much ET you are giving up by spinning your tires at the line. At 1.94 my 60' times are poor
If I can dead hook my car with a 27" slick then an 11.9xET will be the by product assuming i am able to maintain the 113.5mph trap speed.
FYI, Magnum TPI is in the 11.9s with a 111.95mph and a 1.643 60' time.
__________________ Superram 385 Stroker Motor & All The Fixins!
This week at TGO I learned that "strokers need huge intake port volume" is pure
Seriously though.... If I look back on where I was when I first became a TGO member, and what I would have considered a good combo then, compared to now... It makes me thankful I took the time to do my homework before ordering parts.
Reading other guys success stories is one of the most valuable assets of this site.
Nice work on the 12.5 first run, Ominous!
350(sdpc base, hogged out slp runners, vortec heads, headers,vigi, etc) was puking oil out the valve covers lol. Time for a 383 to fix it.
Amazingly I've come to the conclusion that most here have or at the least a very similiar cam range.
Looks to be a comp Cam 224/230 on a 114 LSA.(custom grind w/ 536/542 lift) 1.6 rr's in above. Looks real close to your 276 :-)
Give me your opinions on a good LTR cam with a Stealthram in the furue and boost a guarantee:-) This should be fun. Trying to find the fineline between driveability(everyday) and not over camming the LTR or crippliing the Stealtram.
More than likley swapping to stealthram when it becomes available and the engine is built with boost in min (6mth -1yr, need to buy a house). I have a whopping 8.5-1 compression ratio :-) Might come out to 8.8 to one we will see. Looking for 12-16psi when it comes down to it :-)
Planning on driving this 300+ miles aweek just like I did before the swap when done as well. Do my own tuning and tunning a 730 ecm :-)
later
Jeremy
PS this post wont die(dug it up again looking for vortec 383 cams)
I'm making this a sticky as there is still a good bit of relevant information in these 13 pages for people who are new to TGO and/or thirdgens to learn from. Please feel free to add USEFUL updated information while keeping on topic.
What ever happened to mike crews? Is he MIA with that cobra he bought? If you read this thread from start to finish you will feel like you are reading a novel. We all want to know what happens at the end right? WTF happens at the end? Where is the happy ending? Did he ever juice it? What happened to cam swap? Finish your novel Mike Crews! You owe it to your fans. Peace out.
I was reading this thread and had to throw in my 2 cents worth. I would like to bolt in a few more cubes someday. Actually I was thinking about a 502 or something on that order. The old golden rule you know "can't beat cubic inches". I wonder about your dyno numbers though. I used to own a dyno I used for smaller engines and I always thought( there is always the chance I'm wrong you know) the HP and TQ numbers HAD to intersect and the 5252 rpm mark If you look at the formula used to determine Hp
horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252 or TQ
torque = 5252 x horsepower / rpm they both use the 5252 mark so they should ALWAYS cross there. If they don't I would be suspect of the results. Just alittle point I wanted to make. Love this place
__________________ 91 Z28 L98
700r4
Pure Stock except for Edelbrock Cat Back System minus cats
3.73 posi
14.66 at 96.4 with 91K miles on the odometer. July '06....130*F track temp and NO traction!
284 RWHP with an LTR setup is definitely comparable to what other folks have posted for a healthy LTR setup. The highest I can recall seeing posted was in the range of 315 RWHP by Kevin91Z with the LT4 HOT cam and ported Corvette heads. The flat HP curve is very characteristic of a healthy engine fed by an LTR setup. Check out some of the Dynojet graphs on Mike's website for confirmation.
Your dyno guy was probably right on the money, that 383 will be an air hungry ba***rd, especially at higher rpms, the LTR will have trouble. Plus from what I've seen of the vortec tpi intake I haven't been real impressed, believe the dyno tests they post show a 40 hp gain, well you should see that from just the heads. Got another question for you though, have you optimized your chip? The stock chip will be nowhere near adequate for your fuel, airflow, and spark tables. The siamesed runners will help, I'd check out siamesing that intake as well, or at least porting it substantially. But the first thing would be chip optimization. Hot rod did an article on a tbi 383 a few months back and showed huge gains once they got the programming on the chip right, most of it in the upper rpms. Good luck.
John
__________________
89 Formula 350 406, Miniram, Nitrous SOLD
86 Cutlass Salon Sleeper 455
77 Corvette 406, Superram (WRECKED, ARRRG)
89 Iroc New Project
i was looking for more info on that 383 with tbi u was talking about. i went to there web site but couldnt find nothing on it. im really interested in keeping my tbi off my 305, but useing a bigger CUin motor. do u know where i can get moe info?
Soulds like a pretty healthy setup. I read an advertisment for an intake setup from TPiS. It is called the "miniRam" intake. It explains how using Long Tube Runners are awesome for torque, but not as good for peak HP.
Have fun with the new toy, but don't forget about the old one. 
WWW.OUTLAWPERFORMANCE.COM
Not now not ever, I dont support that company in any way!!!:lala:
If you look at the formula used to determine Hp
