383 Vortec TPI Dyno Results (and questions) - Page 8 - Aftermarket Product Review - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Mike Crews · 12-16-2002, 07:57 PM

Hey Shagwell - Yea, I finally got it late last week. I have a few more small parts to get, but I'm not going to pull the motor until after Christmas. I just don't have the time right now, you know how it gets around this time of year.

Later - Mike.......

Shagwell · 12-17-2002, 07:43 PM

I know how that goes. My Christmas present was to me, in the form of my new motor. I'm still tunning, but just from playing you can tell this things gonna thump! I went carbbed for the moment though. I'm saving up for the Stealth Ram. - good luck!

later, justin...

OMINOUS_87 · 12-24-2002, 07:26 PM

Mike-1bad91Z

I have a couple of questions for you on porting and shaping. I would like to chat over the phone. Email me at mtkas@aol.com if this is cool.

Merry Christmas all!

Mark

Shagwell · 01-02-2003, 08:25 PM

Hey Mike - Anything new?

later, justin...

Mike Crews · 01-02-2003, 09:12 PM

Hey Justin,

Nothing really new here - yet. The Holidays have had me very busy, so I haven't had any car time in the past 5 or 6 weeks. I just today ordered a new double roller timing set, Magnum push rods, and 1.52 roller tip rockers from Comp Cams. All that stuff should be here in few days. I'm going to start out with 1.52s all around, and then move up to the 1.6s (that I currently have) if I think that it will help any. I'm hoping to do the cam change within the next few weeks, when I can get a couple of days free to work on the car. I'll keep you updated on my progress.

Later - Mike...........

Shagwell · 01-03-2003, 11:54 AM

Good luck!

REDZ28 · 01-09-2003, 01:41 AM

Hey mike, Do you have the Scog Vortec intake?

86 IROC · 01-09-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

), LPE 74211 cam, SDPC Vortec TPI intake , 24# injectors, AS&M SS LTRs, ported plenum

Mike Crews · 01-10-2003, 03:27 PM

Hey RedZ289,

Yes, as 86 IROC quoted from my sig, I have a SDPC TPI intake. I received one from the first batch they shipped out to the public. I have done no additional porting to it (not yet anyway), but it still has perfromed very well for me to date.

Later,

Mike........

1bad91Z · 01-10-2003, 07:27 PM

Mike Crews - you have mail.

:lala:

Mike (1bad91Z)

Mike Crews · 01-11-2003, 08:46 AM

Hey Mike,

Good to hear from you. Mail right back at ya!

Later,

Mike........

slp_firehawk · 01-13-2003, 06:17 PM

hey guys wondering if you could help me out a sec, i've been throwing around ideas of what to do with my car lately, i want mid 12's with option to build further later on, i think i might go with a similar setup to your's, mike crews. i can buy a stroker kit that includes Scat 9000 Crank(good to 550 hp), Forged 4340 rods, KB Hypereutectic Pistons, all bearings(crank and rods),all i need are piston rings, for 700 dollars, wondering if that's too much? or a good deal or what?......that's not installed

jason

axlenut · 01-14-2003, 02:55 PM

Just noticed your initial post.
What are cam specs (@ .050")?
Flat power partly due to long runners on TPI. I'm thinking up a doable way to reduce length a bit . I think such a change would be worth 30 HP to you...

Mike Crews · 01-14-2003, 07:36 PM

Jason, it sounds to me like 300 for the crank, 200 for the rods, and 200 for the pistons = $700. It sounds OK, but not like a "great" deal (at least to me). The guy that built my shortblock did not want to use a Scat crank or KB pistons, but I think that was just his own personal preference. Sorry that I'm of no help.

Axlenut, it sounds like you've got a lot of reading to do to catch up in this post. Read through it if you like, and it will answer a lot of the questions that you might have. My LPE 74211 cam is 221/219, .499/525 w/1.5s, but I am switching to a CC XR269 in a week or two. No more new runners for me - I'm sticking with the AS&M SS LTRs.

Later,

Mike.........

Breadfan · 01-22-2003, 08:53 PM

I know its kinda late in the subject to be chiming in , but....
I was just curoius if anyone has performed a cranking psi test on there engine? I know that is a good way to tell if you the correct duration setup compared to your static compression. but i will be honest all my knowlege when it comes to high performance is mostly book related . though i do have little hands on experience , do to a 3yr auto/hi.po college i attended . I hope to see what all my research and schooling will do for me when i get my engine built .

hey Jason , 700 for crank , rods , kb pistons sounds prettty good .
I just bought 9000 crank for $190.00 , 4340 6 inch scat rods for $250.00 and plain on buying k.b pistons . I have some friends that are over the 600hp with that setup . I plain on getting my crank turned .030 under to increase its strength , and lower my bearing speed . Also i would reccomend a 6 inch rod to get your rod ratio back to a more optimal level . :lala:

slp_firehawk · 01-22-2003, 09:11 PM

yea the rods are 6 inch, supposedly they're pretty good, the price that he laid out for me of what he paid for everything goes like this....

crank - 350
rods - 479
pistons - 335

that seems a little high, but i know him pretty well and don't think he would try and rip me off.

mike crews - have you had to beef up your 700r4, or is it stock? right now i have all this stuff planned and money is going to be tight but i should have everything done by spring time, (engine, interior, and exterior) but i don't have enough budget right now to rebuild the tranny, probably going to break the second i get on it, but oh well we'll see. thanks.

Jason

Mike Crews · 01-23-2003, 01:58 PM

Hey Jason,

I had my 700R4 rebuilt to pretty much 4WD specs, in order to handle all the torque. It was the only type of rebuild that the guy would warranty for me, knowing that I was going to run a stroker motor. He had to do some machine work to the internals in order to increse the number of clutches in the trans, but it is basically very similar to a 700R4 that you would find in a 4WD truck, just some more high performance parts on it. I think that it was about $900 for my rebuild. I've been runnng the tranny hard for at least 3 years now with no problems at all.

I still have not had time to get the new cam in. I'm waiting for some warmer weather, so it may still be a few more weeks.

Later - Mike.........

Shagwell · 01-31-2003, 10:40 PM

I have been looking into cranks myself. I wanted to do a cast steel, because steel cranks are harder on bearings. I have been doing some research and have been hearing a lot of horror stories on Scat cast-steel cranks(9000 series). I have a couple of friends who just bought them and have had a lot of balance problems. Our local shop is really good and has been in business for years. He had serious problems trying to get either crank to balance, and said that he wouldn't put either one in his ex-wife's car. He had to take like 15 grams off the front and 160-200 of the back! WAAAAYYY to much varience. - I ordered a new 4340 forged steel for $420 from Ohio Crankshaft.

- sorry this is soo long and off of Mike's post, just my $02.

later, justin...

Shagwell · 01-31-2003, 10:42 PM

Also, we called Scat and they said " we're sorry, the cores must have slipped during the machining process. We can sell you another one w/ a 10% discount..."

bmwtech · 02-01-2003, 01:11 AM

just wondering , I was going to build a 350 for my 91 camaro ( 305 TPI right now ) Do you all feel That a 383 would be a better choice. I been trying to come up with a setup , 10.0 - 1 compression, Edelbrok heads 60 cc . 216 int. 228 exh. for my TPI.
Now I have been looking for Tq in the low to mid range. TPI is known for. Just is it worth the extra effort ( & money) to set it up as a 383 ?

OMINOUS_87 · 02-01-2003, 02:48 AM

Well if you are attempting to internally or neutral balance a crank all kinds of stuff can pop up and make it a big ordeal. You can pretty much count on having to add a bunch of heavy metal to it at about 50$ a puck plus about 25$ install. If you are gonna spin big rpm and plan on switching between auto and manual transmissions this is the way to go. If you have a plan to run on the street and keep your trans for awhile just buy an external balance crank. If you are on a budget there is no need to get caught up in the hype of running full forged and internally balnced. Case in point: my buddy runs a 1250$ race crank that he bought for about half price but still ended up putting 350$ into balancing out his assembly. I on the other hand just bought the Eagle 383 kit. I bought it when Jegs had 10% off for the holiday and got it delivered for 840$. With this I got KB pistons, eagle rods, the eagle cast crank, new bearings, auto flexplate, 8 inch harmonic balancer and yes the kit came externally balaced out of the box. Plug it in and go, no need to drag it to the machine shop. Alot of guys just buy the crank for like 300$ but then have to lug it with the rods and pistons to be balanced which is about 150$ if all they have to do is drill it out. So now you got 450$ plus 250$ in new pistons 100$ in rods 60$ in 8inch balancer stock rods reconditioned ???$. Anyway you see where I am going with this. If you got a bunch of money to throw around then buy all the best parts you can afford. If you want a seet motor that will hold upto 500hp just spend the lousy 930$ on the Eagle kit and put the rest of yopur money into other areas of the car. Anyway just my .02.

DAVECS1 · 02-01-2003, 03:17 AM

Well the Scat 9000 series cranks must be getting better. The one I just had balanced with my rotating assembly was so close to being balanced the race shop I took it to made a comment and asked were I purchased it. On the down side, the GM powdered metal LT1 rods I bought were not so good. I purchased a set from SDPC that was supposedly shot peened, polished, and magnafluxed. The shop said that there was considerable variances in the rods. I was under the impression that these powdered metal rods were more uniform. I was reading the latest Hot Rod and the had a picture of a speed pro piston that looks like the ones I purchased, but in the caption they call it a hyper. It prompted me to go look at my short block. The number on the piston is L2256F. I hope SDPC did not pull a fast one on me

kossuth · 02-01-2003, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Crews
Hey Jason,

I had my 700R4 rebuilt to pretty much 4WD specs, in order to handle all the torque. It was the only type of rebuild that the guy would warranty for me, knowing that I was going to run a stroker motor. He had to do some machine work to the internals in order to increse the number of clutches in the trans, but it is basically very similar to a 700R4 that you would find in a 4WD truck, just some more high performance parts on it. I think that it was about $900 for my rebuild. I've been runnng the tranny hard for at least 3 years now with no problems at all.

I still have not had time to get the new cam in. I'm waiting for some warmer weather, so it may still be a few more weeks.

Later - Mike.........

Hey Mike, I have been reading this topic for quite awhile and there is quite a bit of useful info here. One thing I am kinda wondering is messing with a good thing bad in this case? Your motor is very strong as is with the exception of the upper rpm's. As we all know we understand the flow charactistics of the LTRs so getting the HP up isn't gonna happen without a swap or something and that is something you have eluded to not doing (understandable) So why not maybe like you said earlier try lower gear ratios or even go to a larger tire? To run a 11.99 right now you would have to trap about 110-112 roughly going off your other timeslips. Which you eluded to the fact that you were at 5K going through the traps correct? It's a long thread and I may have mixed info up? Anyways, if that is the case you will never get the topend pull from the motor if it is over geared. I would maybe think about putting a set of 28" slicks on it if you know somebody that has a set that would fit on your car and try em out if you go back to the track before your cam swap and see if that drops you down alittle. Your motor has the low end to pull 28" tires I'm sure as well you are.

I just did some calculations and here is what I am getting for trap speeds in relation to rpms taking into account that 3rd gear is 1:1 with both 26" and 28" tires and I threw a comparision of 3.45's in there too.

107 mph with 26" tires and 3.27's = 4525 rpm
110 mph with 26" tires and 3.27's = 4652 rpm
110 mph with 28" tires and 3.27's = 4320 rpm
110 mph with 28" tires and 3.45's = 4433 rpm

I don't know if this is any help, but I hope it is anyways.

Jason

Mike Crews · 02-01-2003, 09:20 AM

kossuth,

That is some very interesting information. Variations of gear ratios and tire sizes are a little out of my area of expertise. So far I've stayed with mostly stock sized stuff. I have tried the 3.70 gear in the car, and it likes the 3.27 much better, so it goes to reason that it might also like a larger tire. It's funny that you mention this, because I am looking into buying a set of "bigs & skinnies" to run on the car after I do the cam swap (like a set of Telstars or Convo Pros with MT ET Streets). I could obviously get a 26 or a 28 inch tire. I'll have to think some more about that.

Anyway, I want optimize the peformance of the engine first (with my LTR setup), then I'll play with the drivetrain (plus I've already bought all my parts). I know that I am cheating myself out of some hp with the 211 intake on the LPE cam. The 74211 cam is a great cam, but it is just a little too small for a 383 (imho). LPE used this cam in most of his old LTR 383s, but even they have stepped up and now use a bigger cam, but they don't list the specs. GMHTP recommends a 215/222 cam for a LTR 383, and they are usually pretty conservative with LTR cams. I am expecting to pick up "new" hp starting at about 3800 rpm, and going all the way a new peak at about 5300 ish with the XR269. This SHOULD equate to about 40+ more usable rwhp right across the entire LTR powerband. My torque #s should remain basically unchanged, but will move up the rpm about 300 - 500 rpm. My plan is to keep all my low end and mid range, but pick up the extra higher end hp that I need (to get my mph up as you mentioned). My current torque converter should still work fine with the new cam. This is relatively a low dollar investment to pick up the kind of N/A hp that I am expecting. I will probably do the cam swap next weekend, (as I'm re-roofing my house this weekend

). I guess I'll know more after I get the new cam in, dyno the car and get it to the track. Hopefully I won't fall prey to the dreaded "messing up a good thing" that you speak of, but that's what makes alll this stuff so much fun!! If I do mess up, at least I know where I need to get back to (plus I'll already have the parts)

.

Thanks again for the info.

Later,

Mike...........

slp_firehawk · 02-06-2003, 11:24 PM

hey mike, do you have t-tops?

OMINOUS_87 · 02-07-2003, 10:11 AM

Mike

Here is a gear ratio and tire height calculator. You can plug in different gear ratios and tire heights to see what the net effeect would be on yout rpm range as you change them out. Also the new cam might bump your rpm peak up a few hundred rpm. 2600rpm seems a little shallow as far as your converter is concerned. Are you still in your window to have it adjusted with PI? I am about to order a 3000rpm Vig for my Superram combo but still tossing around the idea of a 3200rpm unit.

Mark

http://www.f-body.org/gears/

Mike Crews · 02-08-2003, 07:46 AM

Slp_firehawk - Yes I have t-tops. I kind of wish that I didn't, as I seldom ever use them. When I had my car painted, I had all the weather stipping replaced, so they don't leak or squeak. The car used to flex like crazy until I welded in the Spohn SFCs, and that fixed the problem.

Ominous_87 - Thanks for the calculator. I'll play around with it to see what I can learn. I called PI, and the girl that I spoke with said that she wasn't concerned with the 2600 stall in my new combo. The two primary factors she discussed with me were the 3.27 gear that I'm still running, and the fact that my car is making so much crazy torque that I'm probably already stalling in the 2800 - 2900 range. I told her that I'm still shifting at 5500. However, I'm still in my adjustment window if I feel the need to have the stall changed.

I will start on my cam change this afternoon, but I won't finish it until next weekend due to time constraints and other commitments.

Later - Mike........

slp_firehawk · 02-08-2003, 11:04 AM

good i was afraid that my car was going to still flex like