I have a 1989 L98 GTA. I had a strict budget and needed replacement motor. I went to Advance and purchased the Standard Long Block. I paid over $1080. The motor came in and it was the wrong motor. It was a Vin 7 motor with a correct block casting but the 2193 heads. Block casting was correct except for the VIN, which meant it has the wrong cam. The motor I received belongs in a Caprice. not an F-body. I called Advance but since they are a go between I went straight to Recon. (since I emailed Recon lastnight and still haven't heard back) First I was on hold 5 minutes and spoke to Jewels. I told Jewels my issue, I explained I had the casting numbers. He adv me I needed their part number. I hung up and caleld Avance back and got the pat number. Called back and spoke to Jeremy after holding 5 more minutes. Jeremy asked my VIN number for my car; I explained it is 8. He said 8 is only for Corvettes according to his catalog. I explained the differences between F-bodies and Vettes L98 engines. He then told me his catalog shows the VIN 7 correct for my car. I explaiend again the correct castings and VIN. HE asked if I am sure I have the VIN correct. I explaiend yes I am sure. He said" Let me check the new catalog" And he came back with the new catalog also states the only VIN 8 motor/cars are Vettes. I again explained that is not correct and will be returning the motor. Neither person really helped me. Both did not seem interested in the fact that they have a catalog issue. I now know I will not buy a Recon motor. Ever. And I hope this helps anyone else who does.

update: Advance took the motor back no problem. Recon still hasn't responded to my email.

Consider yourself lucky, if you installed that Recon motor you'd likely be fixing it in a short period of time and you'd be lucky to get the parts for free from them. I work in the industry and they have a horrendous reputation. I have owned one myself and had problems within 1000 miles.

88blkbird

Since you are in the industry, why is it so hard to find a correct L98 for our cars? I mean these people at Recon talked to me like I was just another bumpkin from TN.

If you are still looking for a good rebuilt engine, I have good experience with Helsco rebuilders. They are available through some of the NAPA stores, but not all of them. The warrenty is comparable to a new car warrenty, and they are helpful and friendly if you have a question or a problem. Charles

Recon has gone out of business, but I have installed many of there motors and not had one problem. I cant say the same for Jasper or ATK.
I have heard good things about Helsco as well. Or you can just take you core and have someone rebuild it. Then you know it would be correct.

Because the L98 used in these cars is difficult to come by. They were only used in a select number of camaros and firebirds from 1987-1992. The TBI 350 heads that ARE a DIRECT replacement for these models are MUCH more common. 083 TPI 350 heads are not all that great either.

double

Bigseth

Recon may have changed hands, but they are still in business. I talked to them the other day and they still have a website.

Fast355

I am not a head expert, but after searching all day Sunday on this site, many people agree 083's are better than the 193, 810, and 191 heads that came on TBI. Their arguement not mine

Doesn't matter anyway, could be a blessing in disguise, a buddy in FL is going trade me for an 88 IROC 5.7 car, with a little cash, definately less than another motor.

As I too seem to have received the wrong heads from Advance Auto Parts / Recon in a replacement engine, I'm curious - Would you care to explain what you meant or may have been implying, by "DIRECT replacement"? Do 193 TBI heads fit? Yes. Are they exactly the same as 083 heads? No. It appears they have a different design, with different intake and exhaust performances. Maybe better, maybe worse, depending on your needs. If so, I would argue that a "direct replacement" more accurately defines a part, though it may have external differences or minor changes, to be nearly the same as original. Would you agree? Why or why not?

Perhaps 083 heads are not that great either, but like me and the original poster, if you bought a replacement engine, wouldn't you want all the same casting numbers (or if different, then undeniably better in all measurements)? Thanks!

Since I got my motor from Recon a few weeks ago, just wanted to add a few comments:
1. Like I said, they have the wrong (non performance, not stock) heads on them. Nothing worse than finding your 800 lb motor has the wrong parts!
2. Packaged well, inside a plastic bag, on a wooden crate, inside a double thick box. But..., the engine came with oil all over it. Should you have to degrease a new engine??? Yeah, you need oil on the unpainted parts, so they don't rust. But this motor had oil all over the outside, including on the painted surfaces. And, apparently, it had some oil on it before they painted it, because in spots, their paint comes off if you look at it wrong. And, they missed a couple spots when they painted! So, had to do quite a bit of painting myself.
3. No instructions whatsoever came with the new engine. Is this normal for engine manufacturers? Most individual parts come with some instructions - even if the instructions are poor. Shouldn't an entire motor costing over a grand have something, like break in period details, oil reccomendations, gasket installation procedures, core return requirements, warranty papers, anything? I wasn't expecting a step by step installation guide, but still, something.
4. Called them (Recon) twice regarding oil priming problems. They only attempted to answer the precise questions I asked. Didn't offer any helpful info. This was very important, common questions. Come on Recon, do you want to keep the sale, or not? (They had an uncaring attitude).
5. Like many parts, Advance Auto Parts sells the motor but Recon built it, so Advance Auto Parts defers all responsibility for the engine to Recon. No, Advance Auto Parts choose Recon, and sells it, and makes profit, so they (Advance) should take some responsibility for the engine being the right part.

At the auto parts company I work for, we recieved an email a few days ago that we are no longer selling recon engines either because they are going out of business or the business is changing hands. but either way, We don't have to deal with them anymore

Recom engines=reconditioned parts nothing new in them.
In other words JUNK.

Hope that engine is working out for you either way.
Did you have any idling or driveability problems due to the incorrect cam?

...I never received a response from my email to them. I ended up selling the T/A as is and getting a running L98 IROC. I guess the only thing to do from now on is use SDPC's L98 short block. Hopefully that is a ways off.

There are other options. Both AC Delco and GM offer reman motors....GM even offers new ones.

83350Z - Yes, I may be having some idle and driveability problems, BUT, unless I'm an idiot (which some could argueably call me), I understood that I likely had the right camshaft. Did you realize that I bought a longblock, and the block casting # (14093638) was right. It was the cylinder heads casting # (14102193) that were "wrong", the swirlport "economy" heads, (not the 083 casting that others sell and that was on the car from the factory), and not the 14102191 casting # listed on the engine price estimate printout sheet.
L98 (350) TPI on my 1991 Trans Am GTA.

- I don't know a lot about engines, and you're making me nervous! Please respond right away regarding your opinion on the relationship of my idle and driveability problems to these heads. FYI - I never checked the crankshaft casting #, cause I assummed it would be right, and wasn't sure where it'd be (though now that I think about it, guess I could've looked for it before putting the oilpan on) duh.

So, please tell me that you weren't aware of the facts in my case, and I should probably look elsewhere for my slight problems - like a vacuum leak, wrong vacuum line hookup, low fuel pressure regulator, dirty / old / or failing fuel injectors, etc. THANK YOU!

pentiuman

Yes we had the same casting numbers. My block casting was correct, that just means it was a 350 roller cam block. It doesn't mean they put the correct cam in it and that is what leads to the big problem.

OK, here is what I know from my research.

I researched Recon on their site for their process of rebuilding an engine.
-They take a core engine and reburbish it.
-They inspect the hard parts and reuse the ones that were in the engine, like cam, lifters, crank unless those parts were damaged.
-They replace the soft parts like bearings, seals and gaskets.
-This means the cam that was in the engine they received to refurbish is the one they reused. Since they do not have in their catalog our cars require a VIN '8' motor they gave us cams for Caprices as they think that is the engine that goes in our cars.
- Caprices had a VIN 7 code. (What recon and other sites say go in our cars)
- There were two options for Caprices, the regular low power one and the higher power police package one before they put LT1's in the cop cars
- In a computer controlled car the wrong cam profile can lead to surging idle and I think a rich condition that can cause other problems later down the road.
- A TBI cam is alot lower profile cam than the L98 one.
- If I kept the motor I was going to void my warranty and get the correct heads and cam, but they ticked me off as they treated me much the same as they did you so I just took it back.

There are people that can answer the cam vs computer chip problem better than me.
My guess and bet is that if you installed the correct cam, your problems may go away.

Did you by chance remove the cam and look at the part number?
The L98 cam for your car is P/N 10111773 (1990-1992 L98 and LB9 G92 cars)

I doubt the difference in the heads would cause a noticeable driveability issue. I could have lived with the heads. I just wasn't taking a chance on the cam. And the lack of customer service told me something too, becuase if the people on the phone are like that at Recon, the people rebuilding the engines may care even less.


Does that help?

I called some Chevy and Pontiac dealers here and they said they could no longer get an L98 replacement motor. As did GMpartsdirect.com. I did not try AC Delco's site.
I don't have the desire to learn how to burn chips and I couldn't find anyone online that sold a replacement motor that didn't have misinformation like Recon. I even emailed one company and told them there was an error on their site and they said they weren't aware but would correct the internet. They also assured me they matched the correct heads, cam and block for L98's with iron heads.

ho ho ho jasper is good they do good but ive heard some things aboutcheap fake *** plants taking a not rebuilt block and clean every thing up and put it back together just as reman they only replace what needs it.jasper is not a reman all new internals

Yeah I would have preffered them but my quote came back twice as much. I know you pay for quality but I had no more money to spend. At least that is what my wife told me ÜÜÜ

-83350Z - Sorry for the delay, had to eat dinner and look at my books.

Well, that helps a little, thanks. But... after I re-read this thread, I think that I got the right camshaft - which was my big worry, not the heads, which everyone seems to agree will work, albeit some of the opinion they're not the best performance. I don't understand the purpose / info on the "VIN" stamp plate you talked about in your other thread. WHERE IS THAT OTHER THREAD? But I assume that # is some designation of the type of car the block was in.

In our other thread, where you and me speak about the other big single digit casting #, and unlike your motor with VIN 7, you thought my casting # VIN 8 may be right). It was hard to tell, because there was quite a few different #'s on that stamp plate. The 1991 Pontiac Firebird Service Manual, front of book, 0A-3, Figure 3 - VIN codes, says L98 cars are VIN 8, which I believe mine was. AKA right camshaft, RIGHT???

-So, when you were asking about idle and driveability, you were probably remembering that your camshaft was wrong, and may have forgotten that my camshaft, block VIN # 8, was likely right. Right???

- It's funny, because I know so little about engines that when I saw your idle and driveability question, one of my current concerns, I thought to myself, $%#@, is the camshaft in the heads? (I didn't think it was, and it's not, so I overreacted.)

- My engine replacement was a PITA - a real nightmare, almost entirely due to factors beyond my control - rust, grease, rain, wrong parts, wrong tools, wrong advice, parts not stocked, stubborn bolts, poor designs, unseen friends. But I made it through it. - I haven't gotten ins. or tags yet, so I couldn't do the proper procedure to break in the engine and make sure the rings were right. So, after checking for leaks, letting it warm up a couple times, and setting the timing (my first time to do that), I haven't driven it but a couple times down the block. Would you agree that I shouldn't run the engine more until I'm ready to break in the engine properly, or is idleing OK?

I found that I had to replace the front brakes too - rotors, bearings, calipers, lines, and pads, and that took a few days in my schedule.

- The 2 times that I have warmed it up and ran down the block, due to my law abiding nature, I felt like a real bad outlaw. - That's right, I'm bad, stay out of my way. It's drag racing time. LOL. The exhaust has a break in it, so the motors loud, it has more power than I'm used to, and I didn't have the brakes right yet. I sped up to about 40mph on my little street, and almost didn't stop. Then did a small slid turning around on the culdasac with the wet street from previous morning rain. The neighbors heard the motor and congratulated me later.

I hope everything works out for you guys who do have Recon motors in your cars. I know a friend of mine got a Recon engine from Advance Auto Parts for his '95 (LT1) Camaro and it lasted less than 2000 miles before it lost oil pressure and started knocking. He then had to go through a HUGE hassle to get them to go good for it. It was a massive pain for him and left quite a sour taste in his mouth. Not saying all Recon motors are bad, but I would certainly hesitate to put one in my car!

New engine time = great time to learn a new skill....engine building!!

-Paul

Thanks 83350Z for the PM, and letting me call you to chat about my problems. Like many members on this forum, you've certainly gone above and beyond!
I wouldn't go with Recon if I had it to do over again, since I'm slightly worried about having the right camshaft, and do have the "wrong" 193 heads.

I'm gonna check my vacuum lines, IAC motor, and some other things regarding my unknown severity idleing / driveability issues. Gonna get ins. and tags the next couple weeks, so I can check things out right.

-It's about time, since I did the brakes and got 2 new Goodyear tires today to mount on loose rims. (Even if I was tagged and insured, couldn't drive to get new tires out of town, w/ my old tires that had a leaky valve stem, cracks and a sidewall patch). FYI - I went with the cheapest tires Samsclub had - "Goodyear P245/50R16 96H VSB Eagle GT-HR" at $123.64 each, incl. free installation and road hazard. Got a discount since, they are normally specially ordered, but they had 2 new ones there someone else ordered and didn't go with. (Wow, these wide tires are expensive, aren't they). I just can't see paying upwards of $200 each to get Z speed rated tires, or tires that allegedly have a better "ride". Other cars, I usually just go with a generic brand. Is it round - yes, it's good.

Thanks again everyone. The somewhat less experienced members like me really depend on others to get them headed the right direction. I'll soon be an expert on my particular car! Hope soon my biggest concern will be what scent freshener to go with. LOL. Thanks!

No problem man, glad to help. Hope it isn't the cam for your sake!!!

To be perfectly clear, I don't know how severe the idle driveability problem is, or how much power the engine has / doesn't have, and whether I have the right cam, because I haven't properly broken the engine in yet, or gotten tags and ins.. So I didn't feel comfortable yet driving the car, revving the engine much, or putting a load on it. People on this board are split on how you should break a new engine in, but I'm conservative. Once I can drive it some, and have done the book's recommended procedure to set the rings, and changed the oil (again), and triple checked some items, I'll know more, of course. So, it may be several months to track down any "gremlins" and form a final opinion on how good or bad this Recon engine really is.

Now that I think about it, I've also got 3/4 tank of old 6-9 month old gas (from previous owner when old engine died), to burn off, before I can eliminate that (water) as a potential cause. I did put in a bottle of gas additive, and changed the fuel filter, and everything that had been sitting in the line was likely drained during that and the fuel line removal from the engine. I also thought it was curious that 91 Camaro's evidently have a gas tank recall, but 91 Firebird Trans Ams apparently don't?

This thread makes me glad I'm building my own motor. I'm sorry to hear about the B.S. that you guys went through, it was completely wrong and dishonest. Could you bring them to court over it as a scam or something?

It has been a few years since I worked at either a GM dealer or a AC Delco distributor....But it seems as even they may have dumped engines dor our cars Not that I would go that route myself, but it does limit everyones options. I went and found a reputable engine shop, within a fair driving distance, and let them give me some options. I am lucky enough to have a shop that has had many magazine write ups on their finished products though...so I know they do good work!

If you are looking for original factory replacement, GM no longer offers any engine for any 3rd gen. However, they do have options. They have a "generic" 350 (part# 10067353) for pre-85 vehicles. This carries the same 3yr 100000 warranty as all their other replacement engines. It is a low horsepower motor though--only 190. GM Performance offers the same motor but with better breathing and cam--290, for about the same money. What you may not know is that GM upped their performance warranty to 2yr, 50000 (up from 12/12000). They also have other GM performance engines that will work, you just have to work at it a little--i.e. they have a TBI intake that will work with the vortec heads for the 330hp basev engine, or even the ZZ4 motor, but then you need better injectors and a 350 chip for the computer, etc.
Biggest thing, good quality costs money, so if you're on the tight budget, its sometimes better just to have your old motor rebuilt.

Got to love Recon.Put one in at work back in 1999 and it smoked and burned oil .After weeks of the runaround they sent me another motor and this one would not start , turned out it had a boat cam and the engine was a counter clock wise rotating engine. Since then Jasper , OEM , ATK or find someone else to install it. Good luck.

I must have gotten lucky with the recon motor for my blazer! It has around 25k on it and runs strong as ever

If every engine was bad, they would have been out of business a long time ago. And of coarse as we all know, It's usually the bad service that speaks up and the good ones go quite.

When I used to work at advance when I was younger we sold alot of recon engines, It seemed the only ones that ever had trouble were due to installer error. But the majority of the motors we sold never came back. I have put in 4 and they are all still running strong
Also Recon still has a plant open in mexico (I dont know whos running it) that is remaning engines for other rebuilders and for oem suppliers.

Seth

I too worked at Advance once upon a time and never heard of an engine coming back. However, this post is generally about the poor customer service received and the fact they list the wrong engine in their catalog to parts suppliers. They refuse to do anything about it. And when ordered through their distributors, the wrong engine package is received for our application.