Alternative Port EFI IntakesThis board is for tech discussions and questions about aftermarket port EFI such as the HSR, MR, SR, BBK, FIRST, etc.
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This is some new information that I have since my last post (HSR performance issues)HERE. After pulling the intake and heads (vortec) I came to the realization that I had been running the wrong spark plugs I had been running R45TS. I knew something was wrong when I pulled the heads, the plugs looked fine but the pistons had quite a bit of carbon build up on them. I then checked the spark plug depth with the head off and sure enough the tip of the plug didnt even come past the threads. So, since I have the heads off I am going to go ahead and do a mild port/polish job on the heads (mainly exhaust), put .015 head gaskets on, change cam to a Lunati 07104LK, use R43LTS or R44LTS, and put Hedman Long Tube Headers on. Also I am going to do some weight reduction, spare tire, AC delete, etc...
Just thought I'd throw this out there so you can all point and laugh.
I just wanted to say thanks for this post... instead of looking like an idiot, to me like a savior. I've had Trick Flow heads for years running stock size plugs and have been running very lean ever since and could not correct it with prom editing. Picked up the Trick Flow recommended ones which are identical except that they are flanged with crush washers for sealing and an extra ...oh... 8 threads. Just wanted to shoot you a big thank you!
Im glad you were able to learn from my mistake instead of having to pull your engine apart as I did. Ill tell you one thing though this "plug" mistake sure does answer some questions I had.
Sounds like a good sticky or at least a better subject title (or a boatload of keywords put in) for easier searching. Anyone know of other heads that need non-stock spark plugs?
After reading this post I did more research and it appears that almost all aftermarket aluminum heads use a "long reach" plug with a 3/4" long threads. My set of 8 cost under $15. I hope no one else over looks this, this probably cost me and NEDOSS hundreds (if-not thousands) of dollars each to chase down.
Yea pmpn, my total so far just for parts is just under $500, mind you I am changing a lot of things. Of course depending on how much you value your time the total dollar amount could be much higher.
Just for parts though to find out about the wrong plugs,
intake gasket(vortec) $20
Head gaskets $40
Correct plugs $15
Thermostat & gasket $5
Odds & Ends $10
Total $95 just because I didnt check the (recommended) spark plugs.
I also agree on putting this information out there for example:
ATTENTION THOSE USING AFTERMARKET HEADS IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT SPARK PLUG TO USE!!!!!!!!
Then list various heads and what spark plug to use, the information is on this site, you just have to know what you are looking for.
Let's see I went through two fuel pressure regulators, a set of injectors, two coils, two sets of plug wires, four sets of plugs, an IAC, bought a laptop and all the DIY prom stuff, countless hours tinkering and unknown damage to the plug holes. I had better run a tap through there before long. I'm guessing $600 in car parts and $2k total. After the change, I had to add 20% timing under 1000rpm to get it to idle but the motor runs smoother now than it ever has.
nedoss, you can credit yourself with another save. I just fired up my HSR 383 with AFR 195 heads on it. I have not had a chance to drive or tune it, so I have not expirienced any wierd driveability issues yet. Reading your post prompted me to check my plugs. I was running NGK plugs with 1/2" thread depth from my old motor. I checked with AFR and with the new heads I need 3/4" thread depth. I made a dumb mistake that could have resulted in alot of headaches, but sharing your expirience really saved me. Thanks.
Last edited by Blown87; 02-05-2007 at 06:28 PM.
Reason: Spelling error
Theres alot more to spark plugs than anyone ever really realizes. Theres a killer writeup in last months car craft about the science of choosing the right plug.
Well fellas it has been about 4 months and I have all the parts at the house, I have done the mild port/polish on the heads, got the R42LTS plugs, got an old trusty steel timing cover, I made the mistake of using a chrome one, yeah it leaked! I am going to change the cam in the morning and tidy up the engine compartment a bit. I also added some heat wrap to my fuel lines, since my car was originally carb'd my fuel lines run awfully close to the exhaust. I also removed all the A/C stuff from the engine compartment, I didnt really feel like tearin apart the dash to get the interior A/C out, the dash is still in near perfect condition. By the way if you are wanting to remove your A/C and need one of the 1LE A/C bypass pulleys Oreilly auto has one for $25.99, cheapest I've seen. I will try to take a few pics of the work progress. Also I am taking ideas on how to spend a little money I have from my birthday, I have about $120 left and was thinking either Underdrive pulleys, ignition, replacing seats with plastic racing seats or transmission cooler..... I know that these items would not make any huge improvement but every little bit helps. Any more ideas would be great.
I have about $120 left and was thinking either Underdrive pulleys, ignition, replacing seats with plastic racing seats or transmission cooler..... I know that these items would not make any huge improvement but every little bit helps. Any more ideas would be great.
Until next time.
Here is my 2cents.
Plastic racing seats suck ***. The vynal $150 APC seats are not bad though. (Thats $150 each)
Tranny cooler. eh.. The radiator is the best way to cool the tranny according to the pro builders. Water cools tranny fluid down faster than air, but it wouldn't hurt to have a secondary cooler inline on the return from the radiator.
Ignition.. I'm a new fan of the Malory hi-fire. Get the one with the built in rev limiter. About $175 I think.
Tranny cooler. eh.. The radiator is the best way to cool the tranny according to the pro builders. Water cools tranny fluid down faster than air, but it wouldn't hurt to have a secondary cooler inline on the return from the radiator.
I hear this all the time and would love an explanation since I'm no expert by any means. The radiator is passing 180*+ temperatures- I can't see that as a very effective way to cool something. An aftermarket cooler should make a huge difference.
I hear this all the time and would love an explanation since I'm no expert by any means. The radiator is passing 180*+ temperatures- I can't see that as a very effective way to cool something. An aftermarket cooler should make a huge difference.
It takes more energy to change the temperature of water, than it does to change the temperature of air. When the tranny fluid (+200f) passes through the radiator, the slightly-cooler water absorbs a majority of the heat.
A secondary air cooler on the discharge side *might* provide furthur cooling, IF it has constant air flowing through it. But should never be used as a primary cooling device for the transmission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedoss
Why should I stay away from underdrive pulleys?
Becuase the few hp it saves isn't worth the negative effects it puts on the system. Generally, the two things that get underdriven are the alt (why!?) and the power steering pump. Which means, in parking lots you get voltage drop, and hard steering.. silly.
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; 05-15-2007 at 06:46 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
It takes more energy to change the temperature of water, than it does to change the temperature of air. When the tranny fluid (+200f) passes through the radiator, the slightly-cooler water absorbs a majority of the heat.
A secondary air cooler on the discharge side *might* provide furthur cooling, IF it has constant air flowing through it. But should never be used as a primary cooling device for the transmission.
Another 4 months has gone by and for the past 2 nights I have torqued the heads, put on the HSR lower intake, put on the accessory brackets, dry fit the headers and starter. The headers are hedman 68460 and they went in very easy. I was able to put the passenger side in from the top (no A/C) and the driver side went in from the bottom. When the car was in the air I checked the starter clearance (mini starter) and the fit was perfect. I had to use a mini starter because I have the large flywheel (68 tooth?) I hope to have it completely back together soon, because I would like to hear it run again. Hopefully I can dedicate some time to it in between work, family and life in general.
This is some new information that I have since my last post (HSR performance issues)HERE. After pulling the intake and heads (vortec) I came to the realization that I had been running the wrong spark plugs. I had been running R45TS. I knew something was wrong when I pulled the heads, the plugs looked fine but the pistons had quite a bit of carbon build up on them. I then checked the spark plug depth with the head off and sure enough the tip of the plug didnt even come past the threads. So, [I am going to] use R43LTS or R44LTS, etc...
Spark plugs for Vortec heads.
Here are some possible choices I traced down for a friend a while ago.
Owners should do their own due diligence to confirm suitability for an application.
Vortec heads require plugs with the following physical characteristics:
14 mm thread, ¾-inch reach, 5/8" socket tapered seat, projected nose.
Here are some manufacturers who offer plugs they claim are suitable for
Vortecs. It is worth noting that not all of their offerings have a .750" long reach.
Also included are links to mfr tech info. The NGK link has five pages that
may be interesting to read.
I have cranked it up and it sounds great, I still need to get a full exhaust, intake duct work and install the O2 sensor so I can tune this thing. Right now I am getting a surge, but without an O2 it is hard to get it to idle right. I just wanted to hear it run and with open long tube headers it sounds great. I am going to recheck the valve adjustments, I may have one or two a little tight, that could be part of my problem too.
On a side note I know this has probably been discussed quite a bit, but when using a serpentine belt setup it is VITAL to use the brace on the back of the alternator (see pics) I learned the hard way that you have to have it.
Also don't make fun of my temporary A/C cover I am going to replace it with sheet metal soon.
Here are some pictures I took two nights ago, the car is pretty dusty so excuse the mess.
Picture of the battery and cables after I moved it to the drivers side to make room for the cold air intake setup.
The two orange hoses are for the vacuum canister (reservoir). With this lunati cam it seems I stepped just past the line of streetable vacuum, but the reservoir helps me stop as I should.
Is that hose from the throttle body to the tube going to the MAF part of a kit or something else? I need something like that to plumb the air intake to the HSR on my Tahoe. Thanks, Tom
__________________ 2000 Tahoe Limited 350 L-31 Vortec-Supercharger, MSD 6A BTM, KenneBell Boost A Pump, Ported MAF, Electric Fans, Cold Air Induction, Trans-Go Stage 2 shift kit, 3.73 Posi 10 bolt, Bell Tech Lowered 3/3, 304 stainless steel headers, 3" exhaust w/Flowmasters and no cats, upgraded injectors and Allen Nelson Tuned ECM.
I had a bit of performance issues with my HSR. Turns out the K&N's going through the factory air tube for the SD TPI were restricting the tube and sucking it flat.
From what I was told that is a common problem which I solved by putting hard pipe inside the SD rubber boot.
__________________ 86 IROC R.I.P. 02/04/07 Over 20 yrs of enjoyment... reborn as an 89 IROC with upgrades like HSR,XR282 cam,AFR 190 heads,Random Tech cat-back etc
Is that hose from the throttle body to the tube going to the MAF part of a kit or something else? I need something like that to plumb the air intake to the HSR on my Tahoe. Thanks, Tom
Tom believe it or not the intake tubing, duct work is nothing more than PVC and rubber downspout pipes from Lowes hardware. And the air filter may be hard to see, but I bought it from Autozone for like $25. I think everything added up it was maybe $50 all together. Oh and I cant forget about the 97 cents worth of spray paint to hide the oh so familiar "white" PVC look that isnt as stylish as it used to be.
Here is a parts list just off the top of my head to help get you started:
1.) 4" to 3" rubber hub fitting (adapts throttle body to 3")
2.) 3" rubber 90
3.) 3" rubber coupling
4.) 2' 3" PVC pipe (if you are going a long distance I would look for Schedule 35 PVC (Sewer Pipe) its a lot thinner and lighter, I would double check fitment of the rubber adapters though.)
All of the items listed above were purchased at Lowes in the plumbing section.
If you have any other questions just let me know. Good Luck!
Thanks, I'm am Chevy guy just not a F body guy so I don't know all the tricks. I thought of sqeezing a 4" hose to fit onto the throttle body and now I know it works so that will resolve my issue of how to route my air intake. I'm putting an HSR on my 5.7 Vortec engine and have gotten alot of good info from this site. I'll bet the pvc works as a great heat insulator as well. You can see my current setup and the HSR going on it at: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3047813 Thanks, Tom
I had been running R45TS. I knew something was wrong when I pulled the heads, the plugs looked fine but the pistons had quite a bit of carbon build up on them. I then checked the spark plug depth with the head off and sure enough the tip of the plug didnt even come past the threads. So, since I have the heads off I am going to go ahead and do a mild port/polish job on the heads (mainly exhaust), put .015 head gaskets on, change cam to a Lunati 07104LK, use R43LTS or R44LTS, and put Hedman Long Tube Headers on. Also I am going to do some weight reduction, spare tire, AC delete, etc...
After reading this post I did more research and it appears that almost all aftermarket aluminum heads use a "long reach" plug with a 3/4" long threads. My set of 8 cost under $15. I hope no one else over looks this, this probably cost me and NEDOSS hundreds (if-not thousands) of dollars each to chase down. 
