great way to go EFI from near any carb manifold. Just wonder how easy it would be to adapt to GM ECM's and sensors? If at all possible. Also about fuel distribution...which i'm sure is fine with a single plane manifold. http://news.hspn.com/articles/937/1/...EFI/Page1.html

Anything with the name wilson manifolds on it, will leave you minus an arm, leg, and/or left testicle in terms of price.

says its $689

Hmmmm, a wet flow EFI.

$689 for that? I spent roughly $800 for my complete single-plane setup:

single-plane EFI manifold
4-barrel 1000cfm throttle body
8 40lb injectors
fuel rails, afpr, and all fittings

And that is a dry manifold setup, and is a true MPFI since there is one injector per port, placed directly above each intake port. Just do a little shopping around and you could build a decent setup for that $700.

Cool concept, but you might as well run something else for the price.

I dont think it would run better than a good MPFI setup.

maybe... the price is probly just a suggested retail price...prices probly will vary greatly depending on who sells it, if other places sell it

Actually I think that setup could be quite interesting. True high RPM/High flow (210cc runners or larger) motors benifit from having the A/F mixed early. Another benefit I see to that setup is that the injectors are angled extremely well for a shot down the runner of a signle plane manifold.

Don't mistake this for another TBI setup. The injectors are below the throttle plates. This will allow the the fuel mixture to stay in suspension all the way to the valve. The reason Wilson Manifolds stuff is so expensive, is because actual engineers design it, and they realize that true race part volumes are just not there.

With this setup I could definetly see advantages to running roots or a blow through centrifugal set up, heck even a turbo. Having that much fuel that early would probably help cool the manifold or blower and help make more power. I could also see this working well with a set of 190cc heads or higher with a single plane manifold, and a manual trans

This setup will work easily with the GM 730. You will have to be able to "tune the chip" But that is almost mandatory for any engine change you make when using a speed density setup.

That pretty much describes my thoughts...i think this setup would be a good performer

Sounds like TBI.

Yeah.... hmmmm... I'm not impressed with it- for the money. Additionally, what manifold would work best? Probably not the one on the car at the time.

I'd just buy something else- just my opinion though.

Seems like a good idea for a roots blower or maybe as an alternative to a blow thru carb set up (if you can fit a bonnet on it) but for a na set up or centerfugal i think a real conversion would be better

formula350sd beat me to it. I'm running Weiand 142. There's not much out there in terms of injection options. The GM TBI, Holley TBI and if you want to buy all the parts separate from 10 different places there's the Accel TBI.

All have thier short comings...GM, airflow. Holley, DODGE injectors, price. Accel, availability.

I might end up with one of these...

For those thinking about running a wet blower EFI be aware that tuning can be problems. It's very hard to get idle and driveability just right. Seems like ECM will call for more fuel, load the blower up with fuel, then go rich, starve the blower, and on and on. There just too much time lag and wetted area to deal with. I was never really sucessful on a 749 tuned top hat injected motor. If your going boosted EFI, try to stay with port injection IMHO. It's way easier to control.

Steve

I sent an inquiry to Wilson Manifolds about the IAC and TPS, they sent me this
No IAC? Guess I'll keep looking. What's the point of fuel injection if it doesn't have all the control of FUEL INJECTION?

I know a guy who makes those throttle bodys. They use them on Turbo Rotarys and it works very well for that application.

i believe they sell it seperately

I am running a Holley 4BBL on top of a 142 blower. It is a 383 with edlebrock performer RPM heads. It idles as smooth as butter. It is a real good performer too. I wish I had hood room to run it on my bird, cause it works great in my 77 vette. I am using the commander 950 to control it. The cam is approx 112 LSA 224INT 230EXH .510 intake .524 exhaust

A couple pictures so you guys can see what I am talking about.

I'm sure it will be a good piece for those that need or want a TBI, but I wouldn't switch from TPI to it.

It's not that they don't sell the IAC with it...the TB doesn't have provisions for an IAC at all.

Even if it doesnt have provisions for an IAC valve, you could use one of those little stepper motors found on the 4.5 and 4.9 cadillac engines. It works just like an IAC stepper motor exept it opens and closes the throttle plate itself bu pressing on the throttle linkage. Its not a bypass style IAC.

These engines are all over the junkyards in late 80's early 90's cadillacs.

This is exactly what I was referring to earlier. Why would you spend $700 on something that you have to rig up to work properly. For that $700, you could have an almost complete single-plane MPFI setup including manifold, TB, and injectors that will work just as well if not better.

You could even skip the 4-bbl TB and re-use a TPI one with an elbow on the manifold. You could also re-use the GM sensors and run the whole thing using a 730 ecm, saving even more money.

If you are running TBI you can get the manifold, TB, injectors, 730 ecm, fuel pump and various parts for a little more than $700 - maybe less if you take your time and browse the classifieds. Then, using the TBI to TPI repinning guide, you can get it all working.

If you do a little shopping you could come out real good with that money, or you could drop it all on an 8-injector TBI. The only reason I can see for using this EFI is if you have already invested in EBL and TBI, or if it is simply the only option i.e. on top of a roots blower like DAVECS1 is using.

Well my only comment to add to this is the following:

It is not really TBI. TBI sprays befor the throttle plates and that is a big difference. Basically the fule puddles up at low speeds and is generally kind of sucky until the blades are a 1/4 or more open. Check out a TBI motor with 50-60K or more on it, there is fuel varnish everywhere.

This Wilson manifold has the injectors below the throttle blades. This makes your intake basically like a MPI with the injectors mounted at the beginning of the runners instead of the end. This has its advantages, non of which include low RPM performance.

Any MPI GM computer will run this throttle body, it uses eight standard injectors. If you just really have to have an IAC, they make a number of aftermarket and stock IAC motors, that just require you to drill the correct size hole in one of the runners and then drill 2 more tap them and mount the IAC. No reason your air leak needs to be at the throttle body.

I see what you're saying, but the injection system is physically a part of the Throttle Body and injects fuel via the throttle body = throttle body injection. Just because it is not introduced before the blades does not mean it is not TBI.

And "basically like a MPI" is false. Sure it has 8 injectors, 1 for each runner, but that doesnt mean that each injector is supplying a discrete cylinder. Multi-point injection refers to the discrete assignment of an injector to each runner/port, and NOT from the throttle-body.

A good way to figure if a system is MPFI or not is ask yourself, can it be sequential?

Well this could be sequential.

What would be the point? You would have the injectors firing sequentially with the cylinders, but all from the same point (the TBI). That would completely defeat the purpose of having sequential firing. Having all injectors firing from the same point, and not even pointing towards the runners/ports completely removes the need for sequential firing.

And sequential firing is a method used on MPFI i.e. an injector assigned to one specific port, which is what the Wilsons EFI is NOT.

I still stand by my comment. This would be a waste of good money unless you have already invested time and money in EBL and TBI, or are limited in options and must use a TBI method. If you are running a roots blower and need a TBI system, then by all means use it. I'm not putting down TBI at all; a lot of members choose to go this route and many use EBL, many with very positive results. I am simply stating that unless your setup demands a TBI style EFI, this would be a waste of money.

I am not sure if I am causing a rift, but just incase, I will throw this out here. I am not arguing, I am just trying to have a friendly car guy discussion, so please take any of my comments with a grain of salt. Its a new product and I think it merits some discussion.

I see your point and for the most part agree. Since I don't have first hand knowledge with this throttlebody I am not sure what the relation is for each injector to each runner. By looking at it I would think, that they might line up well with the runners on a single port. Even so, your right this would not make good sense for sequential fuel injection. Sequential injection for the most part is to improve idle and low engine speed characteristics.

I think having the injectors where they are would really help an engine that spends a fair amount of time above 6K RPM. My guess is you could run rediculously large injectors and get away with it. Since the fuel would have more time to mix with the air. THis would be good for nitro and boosted applications, and I think anything that sees 6000 to 7000 RPM

Not causing a rift at all. Its good to get different opinions on a product I think that this would be good for someone that needs a LOT of fuel for their TBI applications. Using just 2 injectors requires very high output fuel injectors, and at high RPMs can go static. If you can use 8 stock style injectors running in batch fire with this EFI, you can run much higher RPMs without going static, and may actually have better injector options since you don't have to use 80lb+ TBI injectors.

The way the EFI is set up is with the injectors on the front and back of the throttle body, probably to prevent certain cylinders from running too lean or too rich, and to also allow plenty of room for the throttle linkage. But..without a picture of the underside of this device with the injectors installed, I cannot speculate on their direction. I can't tell if they are directed downward into the manifold, or if they are firing at an angle into the manifold. I'll see if I can get them to send me a better picture...

Also, I'm pretty sure not all 8 injectors have to be firing at once. You could get creative and place it on a dual-plane manifold, and have it operate similar to a carbureter where the secondary injectors are only firing when the secondary butterflies are open. It MIGHT be possible with EBL and some clever tuning.

Well what I was thinking, was that you could set it up to run bank to bank and place a divider up the center on a single plane manifold (victor JR. I.E.) and maybe it could work out well that way?


Oops never mind it mounts the other way well its still a thought just not for this perticular set-up



Or you could run 2 sideways (like holley carbs) on a custom built tunnel ram or blower but at that point why bother besides the fact that it would look cool