Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well i decided not to do the LT1 intake swap. I wanted to and was ready to try it but found a HSR for a price i couldnt pass up and figured it was a better bet in the long run. soo i bought it lol

I got the stealth ram and adjustable fuel pressure regulator fuel rail kit.

heres what i needed to do to install this manifold on my 89 L98 TPI motor.

Extra parts i needed were two 1/4" barb to 1/8" npt vacuum nipples. you can pick them up at autozone, advanced auto, or pep boys, etc. these nipples were for the fuel regulator and a extra vacuum port that you find on your TPI plenum. Not sure what its for but its there. also go some 1/4 inch vaccum hose, about a 2 foot worth. i reused everything else

I also go two 3/8" barbs to 3/8 NPT nipples for the brake booster and PCV valve line

I got 1/8 inch vacuum caps. i used it to plug the EGR vacuum port on the solenoid. the other line i kept. it runs to the factory throttle body. I believe thats for cruise control, but dont quote me.

vacuum lines are installed at the rear of the HSR plenum along with the MAT sensor. there are two holes for 3/8 NPT and two for 1/8 npt. TPI barbs i think are 1/4 NPT so they wont work. you'll need to buy new ones

pic of my vacuum lines


FUEL LINES

I bought 6 feet of Russel Pro Flex hose -6 AN size and Russel Full Flow hose ends.
I got two straight hose ends and two 120 degree hose ends. Pick them right out of the summit racing catalog. I also got TPI hard fuel line adapters so i can put -6 AN fittings onto those lines. You can get them from Earls fittings out of summit racing for 20 bucks. I used Pure Choice motorsports fittings since i bought the LT1 motor fuel line swap kit but i ended up not doing the conversion.

6 feet was plenty to run the lines how i did.
It was really easy cutting the line and putting the hose ends on. they are pretty snug.
Heres a pic of the 120 degree fittings and hose on the factory hard lines


I bought a sbc waterneck that would point in the right direction off ebay for cheap. others with abit more straight forward angle would be best but TPI stuff is 1 1/4 inch hose, and most small blocks are 1 1/2 inch. SO i bought a radiator hose adapter kit for 7 bucks or so from summit racing. its a big hard rubber tube with rubber tube fittings that will let you put a 1 1/4 to a 1 1/2 waterneck. see pic


I also bought a 5/8 inch barb to 1/2" NPT water coolant fitting for the front of the manifold to keep my factory water valve, just like how the factory TPI manifold has a fitting in front to run coolant to that valve

Coolant temp sensor mounts into the other port on the front of the intake. its 3/8 NPT for stock sensor.

For the PVC system I moved the factory pcv valve and hose to the passenger side and ran it to the 3/8" barb fitting that is underneath the HSR plenum. on the other side i ran a air breather but the hole in the cover was too small for the breather i bought so i just dremel tool'd it larger to fit. you can see it in other pics of final assembly lol.

Throttle body was mounted kinda forward of stock and wouldnt allow the complete closing of the blades...it was catching on the sliding metal tap thing on the lower part of the throttle body. you can see that in the waterneck pic above. that metal oval slide. so i just took the dremel to the sliding cable bracket thing and that somewhat allowed the blades to close. else you'll have a 1200 rpm idle LOL. I also noticed the mounting pad for the throttle cables bracket was angled backward so i put a small washer behind the rear bolt and that aligned the cables better with the throttle body. it now closes completely.

Schrader valve
Stock TPI doesnt work. Holley gives you one with the rails but TPI style pressure gauge wont work. not sure what gauge out there will fit that valve but i said screw that and bought a liquid filled guage from summit racing. 0-60 psi and a holley 90 degree fitting 1/8" NPT male to 1/8" NPT female. part number HLY-26-69. Gauge is summit's 1 1/2inch mechanical gauge liquid filled so i can mount it to the rail. part number SUM-800260. 20 bucks lol you can see it on the passenger side in my final pics.

Now for the final install. i bought extra hex head manifold bolts as stock TPI star/torx head bolts made it impossible to mount as i couldnt get a tool to them. my advice is you could use those bolts if you put the rails and injectors on AFTER you mount the base. I didnt but i got it to work with these other bolts.. i mixed matched them, i got some TPI bolts where i could get the torx head to them, and some hex head bolts where i couldnt get a torx head bit.

I used RIGHT STUFF liquid gasket and black rtv on the china wall and front wall. BIG BEAD and covered the whole thing. it seals just fine so far and i'm running thin synthetic oil.

i did have to clearance my stock hood. see the cut here


Heres the pics you been waiting for.
I painted my setup with engine enamel as well as my valve covers

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Now for the fun stuff. I finally got the thing started and set timing to about 10-11 degrees base. fuel pressure is 40-41 or so at idle with vaccum connected and rises to near 48-50 or so with throttle down.

Car seems to have lost some lowend as expected but there does seem to have a higher rpm pull that tpi didnt have. feels better from 4500-5500 for sure.

So after a day and half of driving alot to let the ECM relearn the new intake and driving style, i bumped timing back down to about 8 degrees and it feels even stronger. definately think 6-8 degrees on stock L98 is where you want it. car felt strong from 4000-5500 rpms. but the lowend seemed to come back abit with 8 degrees timing.

exhaust note changed too. its abit more smooth sounding at idle but still rumbly like before. High rpms tho it screams very nicely. i'll have to get a new clip to compare

Hopefully if the rain holds off, i'll have track times this wednesday.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Get those track times I can't WAIT to see how this turns out. Your car ran very similar numbers to mine and I'm considering the Stealth Ram swap as well.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Very nice how to and information in general. Have you tuned that thing....the A/F ratio shoots up in the upper RPMs than the stock TPI. Over on www.stealthram.com, R. Hilton did a test and shows the before and after. You should feel a nice difference from about 4000-up. HSR system really comes alive with a cam.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i hope to order a chip burner and cable soon. i want to take out the EGR for sure even tho i have no check engine light on and the car runs fine. but yes i figured the tune from 4500-5500 will need improved for sure

Track day wednesday and dyno day is this upcoming saturday. cant wait to see the numbers.

I really want to put a LT4 hotcam in it and mildly clean up the ports in the stock heads and start to tune from there to see how well it runs.

Car went 13.63 in the cold fall air with TPI. i dont expect to beat that in the heat this week, but i expect to be close to that time.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

With tuning, you can definitely pick up a lot....you can run a some timing up top and add some fuel. LT4 Hotcam is a nice choice, a few guys run it over there and seem to be doing extremely well with it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i figure with a motor with this many miles on it (if it is all original) if i am gonna throw a cam in it, might as well do it as cheaply as i can and LT4 hotcams are cheap. find them for 130 like new.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

you wont be disappointed with the HSR.....btw nice colors on the engine

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

hey thanks. black and red is the colors of the car, black outside with red badges and red interior, and red suspension pieces so it fits the car well.


Track tonight was rained out, and tommorrow is make up day but also calling for lots of rain. we'll see.

Dyno numbers rain or shine saturday morning. Stay tuned!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

dyno numbers are in!

See here
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...ml#post3386162

shocker89bird

Cool good numbers. I agree with Yenko that a cam will really wake the Stealth ram up. Same with a set of heads that allow you to rev higher. i ran my stock heads ported for a while and was able to pull hard to 6000k with a nice came in it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats all i'm looking for is to clean up the stock ports on the heads and put a hotcam in it so i can make power to 5500 or so. should be able to put down near 280whp i think with a hotcam and stock heads with mild clean up. 300whp would be awesome but i think i'll need heads for that.

but i do beleive this motor is all original and it has 155K miles on it so i'm worried that too much power and revs will kill it

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

new track times are in!! Vids coming of the runs
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...ml#post3396834

but basically to sum it up...

13.58 at 98.7mph in 70's degree weather. TPI best was 13.637 at 96.9 in cold 50 degree november air!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

wanted to update this thread. NEW dyno numbers may be coming this weekend with the new setup

but i have since added 1.6 rockers, underdrive pullies, weld prostar drag wheels/skinnies up front, smog delete and new injectors since my old ones killed out. DId some tuning to the car and got it dialed in i think.

Just ran 12.95 at 103.8 mph on a 1.710 60 foot. best air i've raced in

govenorcamaro

iTrader: (2)

hey bro you ran those numbers without doing a cam swap yet let me know or any head work

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

correct, dyno'd 254whp at 315 wtq on stock heads, stock cam. only 1.6 rockers on the heads, thats it. stock springs, etc. Ran 12.95 on that setup.

never did cam the L98, i'm doing a fairly nasty 383 now

maroon88iroc

iTrader: (7)

very nice job bro! i wonder how much the hsr helped, you picked up like half a tenth and 2mph before the other mods. i wonder with the other mods if you would have made it into the low 13's? the intake and craftsmanship look prestine though. i am hopefully going to be switching back over to tpi in the next couple months. i really want to get into tuning and fuel injection. AWESOME numbers with the 12.95! what does the car weigh? my car trapped 103 but only ran a 13.9 with a 2.2 sixty foot LOL. i am just amazed that you are performing about the same as my car with a stock motor and aftermarket intake. i have the mods in my sig and i am making about the same wheel power as you. but getting less than 15 mpg where you are probably crushing me. needless to say i am ready to start on the swap.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

In the same weather as i had with the HSR 12.95 run, I believe the TPI setup i had would have gone 13.4-13.5's at 98 With the other mods i had added, including a tune, underdrive pullies, 1.6 rockers, and drag wheels, i think i could have broke into the 13.3x range in similar weather at probly close to 99-100mph. Which aint bad for a stock TPI motor. I dont think the pullies and 1.6 rockers helped as much as i thought they would tho. So the HSR still gave me about 3 tenths and 3mph on average over the TPI which is a good gain. well worth it.

Out of the box run was in hot 70 degree weather, doing 13.58 at 98.7
Similar weather, more tuning work (timing added) i went 13.49 at 99
Pullies went 13.46 at 99.xx but in slightly more humid weather
Drag Wheels i went 13.3x's in somewhat similar weather
Cooler weather it went 13.2's at 100-1001.
1.6 rockers and good air, i went 12.95

my car weighed in around 3450 with me in it that day. So my setup is alot lighter than your car. Remember the weather had a big effect on this car. My tune was lean when i thought it was somewhat optimal. normal weather days in the late fall the car would only go 13.2's at 100-101. The day i ran 12's was a unusually cool high pressure day which really helped boost the car.

maroon88iroc

iTrader: (7)

if i could get into the low 13's high 12's with tpi i would be VERY happy. i think with that cam i told you about in my 350 and a semi-ported (by me) tpi intake those numbers are not too far out of reach. i will be spraying it inevitably thoug, i already have the nitrous kit in the car it wouldnt take much to change to a fi nitrous setup and then i am looking at 11's! crazy! my grandad runs 13.4's on motor and 12.0x's on spray with street tires. if i can stick with him i will be INCREDIBLY happy. i have the motor to run those times now but if i want to run that quick at the track i really need to put the 700r4 back in it. and that might be happening.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

I'm going to be sticking a camshaft into my stock TPI setup here soon. I'll be able to tell you what a stripper lightweight Camaro with a stock TPI and TH350 will do, hopefully that helps a bit. So far the fastest trap I've had on this car was 100mph, but that was when it purged out all the water in the burnout box. Since then I've put a tubular K member, custom torque arm, and pinto rack in so maybe with this and the cam we can get those traps up I'll tell you what she ends up doing soon as the track opens.

AMigs87IROCz

orr89rocz-hats off...awesome buid, I love that fact you detailed your information...VERY COOL. The track numbers are awesome...ever have it dynoed?? What do you think your at for RWHP??

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thanks! if you see above, i think i had the link in there, i put down 246whp with my stock chip and some fuel pressure mods. then i put down 254whp with pullies/1.6 rockers and a very LEAN tune. i probly had 260-265 in it with better fuel curve.

maroon88iroc

iTrader: (7)

do you have a part # on those fittings that attach to the fuel lines on the frame? i need to know what size they are, i would like to run new braided line for those.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

pm was sent but the fittings are earls 16mmx1.5 female end to -6AN male end adapter, and earls 14mm x 1.5 female end to -6AN male end adapter. that will attach to the stock hardlines.

EAR-9894DBHERL

EAR-9894DBJERL

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

im gona be doing the same thing... gona attach to the stock hard lines(after i run new ones of course) with braided stainless to my 383HSR.

so i need 2 of each of these?
EAR-9894DBHERL

EAR-9894DBJERL

and wat size braided line? -6an? arent the return lines smaller? or does that not matter...

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

-6an is -6an.

The adapters make both feed and return lines into -6an.

Here is a pic of the way I had my fuel lines done on the hard line side.



http://home.comcast.net/~thirdgen89gta/hsr_lines02.jpg

Everything is -6an from intake side to frame rail hard lines. The two adapters in the middle convert the feed and return lines to -6an.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You only need one of each. The two hardlines are not the same size. One is 14mm one is 16mm.

-6AN is enough to do both lines. Return hardlines are smaller but fuel rail is all the same size so it dont really matter.

IROCZ4BD3

iTrader: (4)

I like the color combo.Along the lines of mine.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks alot guys. how much of the stainless braided line did u use?

do u have the part #'s from summit for that setup as well. my brain goes nuts when it comes to AN, NPT fittings and cr@p.... now ask me to build u a motor and i can slap that out for ya.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i bought a 6 foot section and cut it to length. i think it was like 38inch and 34 inch lengths, it wasnt exactly cut in half since getting to the back of the HSR on the passenger side requires abit longer line... but it will depend on how you route them.

i guess its hard to tell from my pics where my lines go but they went under the brake booster/master cylinder and 90 left at the firewall to behind the motor.

I used the supplied HSR rail fittings which were already 6AN male ends i believe, and got AN connectors for them. simple straight 6AN fittings. These are the ones i used
RUS-610020 4.88 a piece, i used 2.

The 120 bends at teh fuel hardlines are
RUS-610220 abit more expensive at 22 bucks a pop. You probly could get away with abit cheaper 90 degree bends tho

Fuel hose i used was Russel Proflex RUS-632060. 28 bucks for 6 ft

Basically the fuel line cost is around 105 bucks.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks orr89rocz ur the frigin man lol. that woulda taken me a week to figure out and prob have to reorder at least once. im gona try the 90 degree bends bc $$ is a prob being a student and all. im gona do it the way u did with the line going under the booster and run against the firewall coming behind the intake. i want it to look clean since i'll be removeing as much as i can from the engine bay.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

if your careful you can probly pull back on the factory hardliens to bend them back more so the 90's will point straight back. I didnt think of that so I bought 120's to help align them more towards the rear. You can even try 180's.. they may be cheaper i'm not sure. I dont even know the price on the 90 degree bends. lol

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea ive been looking at the fittings on summits site and cataloge and this is what i got so far. and i need to kno if this is right.

rus-610020 straight -6AN to -6AN (2 of them) for the back of the fuel rail. i have the fuel rail kit and i should have the fittings that u had
I used the supplied HSR rail fittings which were already 6AN male ends i believe, and got AN connectors for them. simple straight 6AN fittings. These are the ones i used

then im getting russel proflex hose -6AN 6ft

now that takes care of the fuel rail to the flex line... right? now i need to connect the flex line to the hardline... so what do i need here?
so far all i kno is EAR-9894dbherl which is the -6AN to 14mm hardline
and the EAR-9894dbjerl which is the -6AN to 16mm hardline. i kno u said 120degree bends but i could get away with 90 degrees. i would do whatever would be cheaper. the hardlines need those adapters (ear-9894... yadda) to -6AN... which is the -6AN proflex hose. so do i still need the 120/90degree bends? and wat are the part #'s for the 90degree's??? i kno the 120s are 22$ a pop

i kno im a pain lol but if u just listed all the part#'s that i would need, just spell it out i would print and buy lol

if u do the fuel rails the way they say... where is the return line and the other line located? i kno some ppl change where the inlet and outlet on the fuel rails and position the fuel regulator in diff spots (front and rear) from wat it looks like the 120 and 180;s are the same price, the 90degree swivels are rus-613160 at -6AN its 5$ cheaper a pop.

just tell me what i need! to do from the hard lines if the fuel rails are setup as the directions say with the fuel regualtor in the rear of the plenum lol
thanks again u def saved me a headache

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yep, holley has 2 fittings supplied that point to the firewall. You take the flexline and attach the russel straight fittings to the hose. then those screw on to the holley fittings.

Then you need to attach the flex line to the hardlines on the driverside fenderwell.

yes those screw onto the hardlines. The hardlines have threaded ends on them but they are 14 and 16mm. you need those earls adapters to allow -6AN line.

Then you need another fitting that attaches to the flex line (-6AN) so you can connect the flex line to those earls hardline adapters. They can be 90 degree bends, or 120's. I used the 120's so they bent backward more. See my pic above.

All and all, you need 2 pieces of flex line/braided steel line about 3 ft each, hardline adapters (earls) one 14mm and one 16mm as posted above, and two straight 6AN hose end fittings and two 90degree or 120 degree hose end fittings.


The supply line is the larger 16mm hard line and that goes to the back of the passenger side fuel rail.

return line is the smaller hardline (14mm) and goes to the fuel pressure regulator.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

wow perfect thanks orr89rocz! i owe u a cold one

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Anything i can do to make things easier for other thirdgenners, i'm glad to help i figured since i went thru it, and couldnt easily find the info i was looking for during the swap process, i figured i'd post up my experience to be a guide for others. I know how frustrating it is to try and find answers to questions

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks it really does help.

just a quick question. idk who sells new fuel and brake lines for our cars so i was gona bend my own, ive done this before and its a pain but if its cheaper i dont care lol. wat are the sizes of the stock line (3/8 and 5/16")?? and what would i use. i was thinking just plain hard like from russel, maybe aluminum to help with the bending.

how'd u tune the HSR since i will be building a HSR 383 could u tune for me lol
patriot 195cc heads 260cfm at .5-.6 lift port matched to felpro1206
comp cams xfi 280 230/236 .567/.571 113 lobe
HSR ported and portmatched to felpro1206 fuel rail kit
kirban fuel pressure reg
30lb ford SVO injectors
58mm TB
grannelli MAF
1.6 RR
and all the other goodies.

i just didnt want to buy the chip burning stuff and mess it up cuz i know nothing bout tuning.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I used craig moates stuff, from moates.net. tunerpro RT software and his datalogging cable and BURN1 programmer.

I will be doing my 383 HSR which is pretty similar to yours, except i'll have larger injectors and slightly different cam althought similar duration, and AFR 195 heads. I'll be using stock MAF but with screens removed. Whenever i get my car done which i hope will be in a few months, and then tuning starts i can send you my bin as a baseline. it shouldnt be too far off for your car

AS far as fuel hardlines go, you can buy rolls of tubing. i do believe its a 3/8 and 5/16 inch setup. I'd have to double check and measure them to be sure but sounds bout right.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks i would really appreciate that. yea i was also looking into the moates stuff as well. not sure how $$ its gona be tho and since i dunno anything bout tunning lol it should be interesting and id really appreciate your bin that would be a life saver and save me hundreds on a dyno tune. thanks for everything orr89Rocz

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Close is better than stock and i'm sure it will be alot better than stock. Moates stuff will run you about 220 bucks or so for everything you need to burn your chips and datalog. I just cant give you a date when i'll be tuning this motor since i'm still a good ways from being ready

IROCZ4BD3

iTrader: (4)

http://www.finelinesinc.com/ For fuel and brake lines for thirdgens

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks for the link.... wow those lines are $$, i would rather save some money and just bend my own lines. does anyone kno what the fitting sizes are of the stock Fuel steel, incoming and return lines? i would like to go hard line aluminum (alot easier to bend) but i would nee dto get aluminum fittings so i would need to know the sizes. i would need the fuel filter sizes and any others. thanks again everyone

CAMAROJOKESTER

iTrader: (4)

hello, i was wondering if someone could help me out.. which line is the return and which is the fuel line.. thanks..

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

the larger hardline (16mm fitting) is the incoming supply line. the smaller hardline is the return

tpi user

to bad we all couldnt chip in an rent a place with a dyno an a flowbench for a day or 2 a few guys bring your intakes maybe someone volunteers a camaroto be test mule an see what intakes really perform best or whos custom super ram stealth , miniram etc flows the best an dynos the best to prove once an for all if a heavily modded tpi can really run with one of the aftermarket rams.it would be great an alot of fun . i know you guys think im smokin something really crazy but it would be cool.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Indeed, alot of good tests can be done. Alot has been done before with those intakes and such, but direct comparisons are harder to come by. I've taken my stock TPI pretty far, i went 13.6's but i believe with my tuning knowledge i've learned so far, i could have gotten that car deeper into the 13.4-13.5 range. My HSR went 13.2's or so in similar air with a lean tune. I probly could have done 13.1's with better tune. better air i got 12.9's but its not a fair comparison since alot of weight was off the car for that run and the weather was not the same.

It proves stock TPI is not enough for stock L98 longblock, but doesnt show what the capability of fully modded TPI vs HSR vs etc is on the same combo, but there are way to many variables for this. Not all intakes will respond well to the same cam. Miniram wants different than the HSR/TPI thats for sure.

BUT i hope to show what this HSR can do on a fairly stout 383. We'll see in another month or so.

tpi user

ya thats all i really want to know also what the hsr can really do on a stout 383 or how about that new 408 tanl developmet has out using a 1pc late model l-98 4.030x 4.00stroke they got like595 hp not rwhp i think it was in pop hot rodding but it was with a carb i dont know just a thought

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

its funny you mention that cuz i was pretty darn close to buying that 408.... i kinda wish i did just for more cubes but the whole 4 inch bore/4inch stroke kinda persuaded me to go 383.

If i stick with small blocks, i do plan to build a big big inch smally.. something in the 450-470 inch range thats years down the road and if the HSR is capable of supporting that. else it will be miniram or sheet metal intake

tpi user

what makes u uncomfortable with th 4x4 enkine combo of the 408 . just wondering later

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

its just the long stroke and thin waterjackets along with short piston height.

a 4 inch stroke in a 350 block requires alot of clearanceing, and that means thin waterjackets and other areas of the block. I didnt like that. Also, with a 4inch stroke, the piston compression height would be VERY thin, pushing the oil rings into the piston pin area. Thats not generally liked by engine builders. Rod/stroke of a 350 is 1.637. For that 408 that requires a 6.5 inch rod...not gonna happen. 6 inch rod gives you 1.5 which isnt bad but not great. 6 inch rod would mean a piston compression height of 1 inch for a zero decked block, and 1.025 for a non decked block. Its possible to run that obviously but i'd rather have a longer piston compression height. My 383 uses 1.125" piston height.

Also my buddy has that 408 rated at 495hp, with dart pro 1 platinum heads 200cc, and a carbed setup. Not sure if its untuned or what but air fuel looked ok, but it only made 308whp. Cam was cc306 which can do 380-400whp in a 383 with similar heads. He has 2400 stall but not sure if it was locked on that run. Either way i dont see it making the power i thought it would. 3700 lb car went mid 12's at 110mph. Thats on par with 330whp. I ended up getting AFR heads so i went 383 instead