Hey! i was just wondering, what is the overall deal with the Ramjet intake from GM?? All i see is here is Superrams and minirams and stealthrams.. I really don't see any significant threads about the Ramjet... Is it that bad??? I have connections inside GM and can get the Ramjet setup significantly cheaper then the other setups, which is good because im on a tight budget, but if its that much worse, I suppose i really can't bother with it. Still, i was thinking the Ramjet with some GMPP fast burn heads and a good cam would really wake the car up! But like i said, if the gains will be less then the other systems, i suppose i really cant consider it even though it would be cheapest by far. note: the engine i plan on building will be a 383 stroker with goals being 400 RWHP and 450 RWTQ on pump gas, although these arnt rock solid goals, just what i have in mind. little less wouldnt kill me, and i would always love alittle more Thanks in advance for any help!!!!!

nah, nothing wrong with the ramjet at all. Alot of guys go with the other set-ups becuase they can re-use more things from the old injection, ie, throttle bodies, etc. GM also predominantly sells the ramjet as a full kit with electronics/harness/ecm, so most guys don't need all that.

since you have a connection, if you can get the manifold/fuel rails and waterneck and throttle body cheap enough, that would put you ahead of the curve.

of course, as with any of these manifolds, you would need some decent tuning to maximize the effort.

what kind of tuning are we talking about??

and i will basically be replacing everything in the engine some where along the line, add that to the price i can get this stuff at, and reusing old parts is not a concern. It will all be new.

well, if it's a stock L98, like your info says on the right, you will probably just have to tweak a few things here and there, and be on your way.

as you add more cubes, bigger cam, you are going to have to tune the ecm, same as any other changes you might have made. This would apply to ramjet, or miniram, super ram, etc.

check the diy-prom section for more info, there is so much more than I could possibly explain here.

ah! ok. i was thinking you meant machining work.

the plan is for some kind of fully forged rotating assy. 3.750" crank with .30 over since the block needs bored anyways since it has some wear and tear. the Ramjet, heads, etc etc will go on after the extra cubes, and at that time my friend will burn a custom PROM for me since its a foreign language to me and he has a history of making some big power gains (for a guy working in his garage anyways lol.)

I converted my L98 to the Ramjet and it ran awesome with the combo in my sig! Right now the motor is getting the 383 treatment, solid roller cam, and Etec 200 heads. It will be interesting to see what it does.

You can probably get a custom made wiring harness for the conversion (see the EFI Connection advertisement above). Since I didn't go that route, I had to change the pigtail connectors for the TPS, IAC and MAP. I also relocated the MAT/IAT since the Ramjet doesn't have provision for one. Also watch your hood clearance! You may or may not have to trim the metal supports in the hood.

hood clearance isnt an issue. Im currently looking for a 2 inch cowl for my baby.

so what you guys are saying is that it basically performs the same, but because of the buying options is often forced out of the equation??

I'm not exactly sure why it's not more popular on these boards. I haven't priced the parts in a couple of years, but to buy the intake, fuel rails, throttle body, and a few other misc items separately at retail probably isn't cheap. It's maybe not as plug-and-play friendly as the other systems (but certainly not difficult). And, since not many people seem to be running the intake, there's not much in the way of dyno/track tests to look at (at least not around these boards). So it continues to stay in the shadows, I guess. One of the mail order shops used to sell a Ramjet crate motor with the Hotcam swapped in. I don't remember the other details, but they rated it at 430hp. It may be discontinued by now. Here's some additional info:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tp...t=#post2111988 (Anyone Swap Out TPI for Ramjet?)

well, like i said, i can get the parts cheaper than the other systems, so if they are even remotly close, i think ill go with the ramjet.

I know a guy that has (or did last time a talked a few months ago) a dyno. If he still has the shop, ill be keeping very close tabs on my engine build progress.. Maybe that will add some much needed info!!

I'd love to get a Ramjet. I'm still trying to find one that is not prohibitively expensive. I'll admit -- I'm being cheap becuase I dont 'need' it.

I have watched the paltry few that come up on ebay. I have priced the parts too. The "ramjet minus electronics kit" (p/n 12498032, $1346) isn't a bad deal, if you're starting from scratch. I'm not.

I want just the manifold (12489371, $430) and fuel rails (12553918, $371 !!). These two pieces alone would cost $800. Comparable parts to do a Stealthram is around $550.

The fuel rails are what kill the deal for me. They say the regulator is the same unit as an LT1 Vette. Does anyone know if stock LT1 rails would fit a Ramjet? Or rails that could be had from any other stock application? (ie-- junkyard/swap meet/ebay). If I could get a set of rails and a regulator for under $150, I'd buy a Ramjet intake.

The throttle body can be had from a LS1 or Gen III truck motor for under $100.

I already have injectors, I have a distributor, I have all the sensors,

I have a set of E-Tec 170 heads with HSR on my Chevelle's 406 and a set of Scoggin-Dickey Vortecs waiting for my next engine project for my dad's '63 Vette, probably a 350.

The 350 / Hotcam / Ramjet combo you mentioned one vendor did, is exactly what I was thinking to do. Dad's Vette is all original, so I have this desire to use all GM parts.

I want the Ramjet for the Vette, but I'd definitely like to compare it back-to-back with my Vortec HSR.

-Dave

Awesome. Keep us in the loop on how it goes. I don't see any reason why I can't have mine tuned by early summer so I can do some track testing. At the very least I'll have some G-tech results.

That's one of the reasons I wanted to go with this intake. Sometimes I like the idea of taking advantage of the OEM's R&D, etc. as opposed to the aftermarket.

Another crate motor showing the Ramjet's potential:

http://www.azspeed-marine.com/ramjetzzcren.htm

If I'm not mistaken, it uses the GM "846" cam (222/230 on a 112).

TPI fuel rails probably wouldn't work, as well, LT1 style, since both use crossover lines that would need to run right though the middle of the ramjet manifold.

You can buy universal fuel rail, and have it drilled for the injector pattern, for probably much less than the $371 that GM wants, and use an aftermarket regulator and fuel lines. I think I bought a 3ft length for around 80 bucks, and drilled my own (well, technically, my father did it on a bridgeport at work, but I supplied the tool bit and could have done the same on a drill press).

i'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that even the biggest, baddest, ported, siameseed, aftermarket runner/base TPI system will not be able to outflow a ramjet? or at the very worst would be about even? I was just wondering because i really do love how the TPI looks, and i found a few builds for it that are pretty stout, although i question their legitimacy. (check the TPI board)

it's hard to say without flow numbers. It all depends on the port shape, the runner exit area, and total runner length for any manifold.

I would guess it's probably close to a very highly modified TPI, in stock form, but since the runners are shorter, it should make more power at a higher RPM, which will ultimately give you more HP. With porting, you can probably get even more....

easily, after you spend the time and money to build a highly modified TPI, you probably would have spend more than the ramjet anyway....

can you port the ramjet? I havnt seen one up close yet to see what is really going on in there.

That is what I was thinking. I would imagine you could port it some. I have only seen them mounted on motors. I have never seen one off a car to give a direct answer.

Mine is currently off the engine, so I took a look at it this morning. I don't have any pics, but I can tell you that the runners are about 4 inches long from the gasket surface on the bottom to where they start inside the plenum. The bottom of the plenum ends in a diamond-shape point which looks to be about 1.5" below the bottom of the throttle body. Don't know much about porting, so I'm not much help there.

Anyone know off-hand how long the runners are on the Miniram?

basically, if there is extra metal on the plenum or runners, then there should be a possibility for porting. at least that is what i think. I dont know much about it either.

I picked up a marine ramjet on ebay from a guy that worked at Mercrusier factory in Oklahoma a year or so ago for 700.00 without harness and injectors.
I thought that was a deal. I used a set of SVO 24# injectors and am doing the 0411 OBDII setup on it.
I used the intake on a Vortec 350 engine, which is the same as the crate Ramjet setup.
The one I got used the Vortec bolt pattern and matched up perfectly.
The marine unit was exactly same except for no vaccum port for power brakes, which was no problem, and didn't have the cute lettering on top. It did have brass passages in the water ports.
I personally think the potentials of the ramjet setup is one of the best intakes around for street.
I ported the vortec heads, installed LT4 stock cam and 1.6 rollers, and with the OBDII setup, I think it will be a great street runner.
I've seen a couple used units on ebay.
I have had a couple friends using the complete kits and have not liked the wiring/ecm that comes with the complete unit, and no trans control is used with kit.

so do any of these guys have the ramjet working? what do they think of the whole deal?

They love the way the Ramjet works on street, but bitch about the stock ecm not supporting trans and can't log or edit it.
The Ramjet part is great.

There is a vintage 1950 or so Studebaker running around locally with a RamJet 350 in it. I believe it is controlled by the 7730 speed density computer.

S10Wildside on here has been building harnesses for the Ramjet engine using SD stuff w/700R4 for several years.
You can go to www.eficonnection.com and get info or PM him on here.
He is now also making harnesses for the OBDII swap for Gen1 engines.
He made the harness for my Ramjet setup to OBDII.
You might want to check out his site.
Ron

thank you! that really is very helpful!

I am also planning to use the Ram Jet intake...
Here's the setup:
Ram Jet manifold - SDParts
Vortec Heads, .6" Lift - SDParts
ZZ4 Cam - Ebay
LS1 Throttle Body - New off of Ebay
Custom Fuel Rail - Machined using CNC mill
Lt1 Fuel Regulator - ?
Custom EGR - Machined using CNC mill
730 ECM - Thirdgen Classifieds
Custom Bin - Me
SLP 3/4 Headers - Summit

Anyone have any suggestions, specially on tuning?

I am watching the OSU - LSU game and I about to toss this laptop into the TV

The ZZ4 cam is fairly mild - any reason you don't want to go with something bigger? FWIW, I'm using the Aeromotive adjustable FPR. Does Summit still carry the SLP headers? I thought they were discontinued a while back.

The reason I went with the ZZ4 cam is that I was able to buy it pretty cheap on EBAY, $89, for a take-off. Its still bigger than the LT1 cam I have, and could practice tuning on a mild cam before I go bigger.

I was browsing summit racing website about a month ago for headers and suddenly they showed up. I was going to buy Dyno Don's, but he seemed to be backed up with orders. I took the chance and I ordered them. They showed up in excellent condition. I thought they might be reworked etc..

I was thinking of using a Aeromotive FPR, but I really don't need an adjustable one. I have the crappy Accel 24lbs injectors that don't like a lot of pressure.

My biggest concern with using the Ramjet is the tuning. It seems everybody is having issues using the 730 ecm. I hope that this intake doesn't need to be run rich in order for it to run properly.

I'm using the 730 and didn't have that kind of trouble. What issues are people having? Are they folks from this board?

BTW I ran the ZZ4 cam in my modified TPI. It's a fine cam IMO and you should have no trouble with it.

Thanks for the info on the cam. Most the issues I've read on this board, which is not a lot, is running rich and idle issues. When I start tuning, I may drop you a few questions.

Feel free to ask away with any questions. I don't see how tuning with the ramjet would be any more difficult than any of the other options out there (miniram, etc.). I didn't have trouble with the ramjet and 218/224 cam I had.

The few ramjet combos I've seen around these boards are fairly mild like the one you're planning, which is just fine. I wanted to get more agressive this time, that's why I went 383, etec heads and custom solid roller (236/236). The shop called this past week and I can pick it up any time. It will be running this spring.

[quote=Section162;3606051]I'm using the 730 and didn't have that kind of trouble. What issues are people having? Are they folks from this board?

I have had a 355 cu inch RamJet up and running in a 1986 S10 for a couple of years using the 730 ECM. Mine is running rich (12-1 AFR). I don't drive it much and to be honest have not flogged really hard at trying to find the issue as of yet. I suspect I have a bad ECU. We are running 19# injectors and it still is very rich. I suspect I have a bad ECU.

Running an aftermarket hot chip of some flavor. Don't know exactly which one. My son is morre into this electronic FI stuff. I myself am old school having cut my teeth on Holley DPs and mechanical FI stuff.

Can you share your tune up that you are running with your 730 ECU?

Mine motor has the iron vortec heads, 218 @ 50" on intake with 112 custom grind cam. 1.6 rockers = .537" lift. 9.7 - 1 compression. 700 R4. RamJet map sensor. L98 distributor & Block.

Thanks, Reekax (New member)

You guys ought to check out the threads here:
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tp...ht=s10wildside (TPI OBDII - Thoughts/Opinions)
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...ion-gen-i.html (Sequential Injection on a Gen I Motor!)
The first is a thread about using the OBDII PCM on older Gen1 engines, and the second is basically the same. The differences are discussed in both about the first and second versions of OBD.
In the second post, I chose to go with the Express van PCM because of troubles folks have tuning aftermarket injection systems with the 730. I got S10Wildside to build me a harness for my 41 pickup after changing my engine in the project from 93 TBI to the Ramjet setup.
I had all the TPI/730 stuff, but chose to go with the modern stuff because I intend to keep the truck til I can't drive any more.
All the parts to do the changeover with are easily available at any junk yard.
I have seven 730 ecu units and three TPI units, but I still believe the later stuff will be much better in the long run, AND you can use the 4L60E or 4L80E trans.
Check them out.
Ron

You won't need to fab custom rails. Get the Edelbrock rails for Vortec heads (Part #3631), they'll run you about $80. I started with a bare RamJet and these rails work great.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering if I could use some off the shelf rails, with a little modification. Still need to bend some fuel lines and get a regulator.

Whoa -- this is info I've been looking for, for quite a while! I was hoping there was somethign other than GM's $300+ rails.

Did they just bolt on, or was there any re-drilling required? You mentioned the crossover. Are the ends of those rails threaded?

Do you have any pictures of the rails on the intake?

-Dave

The mounting holes in the Edelbrock rails line up perfectly with the tapped mounting holes in the RamJet. I did enlarge the mounting holes in the rails about 1/16". The length of the injectors I used pushed the rail up just a touch higher than the tapped holes in the manifold.

You'll need to acquire 4 metric bolts of the proper diameter, length and thread pitch to mount the rails. Take the manifold and the rails down to a REAL hardware store with a well stocked nut and bolt aisle. While you're there, get all the bolts and washers you will need for everything (rails, throttle body, throttle cable brackets, cruise, vacuum fittings, etc.)

You'll get some strange looks from the little old lady there to buy a toilet plunger, but you'll save yourself time and aggravation getting exactly what you need in one stop.

The ends of the rails are tapped for 3/8 npt fittings. Use pipe thread sealant rated for gasoline and high temperature when you install your fittings (got mine at NAPA). Use the liquid sealer, do not use teflon tape. Bits of tape might get loose and could plug your injectors, especially if you remove the fittings and reinstall them even one time.

This is some great info! Thank you so much. Even though i was the one who made the topic, over the last few weeks i have been leaning towards the FIRST fuel injection system, but now i believe i have come back to the Ramjet side because of this info! thanks alot!

Burb,

That's some great info! One last question, what did you do for the fuel pressure regulator?

-Dave

I picked up a used adjustable AEM off eBay. Just like this one, only silver:

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=51

Came off the back of the drivers side fuel rail with a 90 degree 3/8 npt to -6AN fitting into a swiveling -6AN to -6 ORB (O-ring boss) required by the AEM. There is a little pad on the manifold between the back two manifold to cylinder head bolts. I made a small steel leg that bolts on the back of the regulator and the pad for support. The return comes out the bottom of the regulator with a 90 and back across to the passenger side between the back of the manifold "tunnel" and the distributor.

There are a number of regulators you can use, just figure out the plumbing before you buy it. I wanted adjustable, vacuum/boost referenced, a pressure gauge, rebuildable, and capable of regulating a decent amount of flow. There are some cheap regulators on eBay that would probably work just fine, I saw this one pop up at a great price and nabbed it.

The stock Ramjet setup looks exactly like the LT1 unit, and if you were using 24# injectors, it should be perfect.
Used ones are easy to come by.

87 Burd, are you running a 700r4, if so how did you set up the tv cable. The only concern I have is getting the tv cable to work with a ls1 throttle body. I was think about using the edelbrock intake single plane with with a tbi base plate so I would have the brackets for the tv cable. With the injectors out of the i figured it would flow ok. Now that you can use the edelbrock rail with the ramjet, that tighen up the market. hsr, ramjet, single plane, and the turtle ram are close to the same price.

I'm running a TH-400. Didn't run into the tv cable issue.

Just wanted to add to this. The LT1 and aftermarket replacements will not work with the Edelbrock fuel rails mentioned by 87 Burb. I went ahead and purchased them, and already had bought an Aeromotive regulator. The LT1 style are designed to be rail mount units, and use push in fittings that are not compatible with the Edelbrock rails. The regulator I bought I can switch out the fittings so it's not an issue. If you plan on using an LT1 factory unit and the Edlebrock rails you would need an adapter.

I picked up the edelbrock fuel rails and i'm not seeing how to get them to work. Anyone have some pics?

-jason

Try posting some pics of your Edelbrock rails and the ramjet. Previous poster 87Burb mentioned enlarging the Edelbrock's mounting holes a slight bit.

-Dave

I shortned the rears of my ramjet rails so I can use the 0411 OBDII setup.
The rear of the rail is basically a billet piece of aluminum tigged on the end of the rail. I just sawed it off, and shortned rail, then tigged it back on.
The front has a crossover pipe, that could be fabbed with flex line.
Ron

Couldn't get pics to go in last post. Trying again.
Ron
Still can't get the @@@@ things to post.
Try post 29 on this thread.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...ml#post2801225 (Sequential Injection on a Gen I Motor!)

I have the ram jet manifold and the edelbrock fuel rails. I haven't installed it yet, but I'll test fit it to see if I have the same problems.

Just wandered back out to the garage to snap some pics...

http://s292.photobucket.com/albums/mm31/Jaysz28/Ramjet/

Seems as if the lt1 injectors set the rail too high. Going by 87burbs post, that is normal. I'll have to enlarge the hole somewhat to get it to work....

Now to find a budget orientated AFPR that'll work with minimum effort... joy

thanks


-jason