customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

got my felpro1206 from summit today since the 1205 was def not the right size for the head. im posting pics of the porting i did today for 4 hours to the HSR intake runners and the marking for the 1206 on the patriot heads. im portmatching everything smooth and when i put the 1206 up against the HSR the ports/gasket match perfectly. still it took 4 hrs to do 4 runners.

2 problems.

1.) the 1206 is a HUGE port size compared to the HSR runner size so i had to cut away alot of material. the gasket size is so large that i dont believe i have enough material to seal the gasket, u can see in pic one. theres roughly 1/8" of material left to seal the gasket. if im not... when the intake is installed on the heads can i add a bead of silicone gasket maker suff around the runner flange after installed... like calking a bathroom?

2.) the gasket is a lil bigger than the port on the patriot 195cc head, the 1205 was wayy to small and the heads call for the 1206, when i market the gasket out on the head u can see i still have to remove a bit of material in pic 2. i really dont want to do this bc god forbid i mess up! they where 900$!! thats a big booboo

wat are your takes on this? do i have enough material for the gasket to seal on the HSR? wat about the silicone idea? and wat about the heads? and info or ideas would be appreciated or if anyone has done this before.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

first pic is the patriot 195cc head ports ported to felpro1206...
found that this material was a bit softer and easier to port than the HSRs aluminum. but the heads aluminum was more solid/pure even tho softer and smoother

second pic is patriot 195cc heads portmatched to felpro1206 with gasket alighned... u can see how its a exactly port match and should have no real restriciton.... very happy with myself lol

third pic is HSR ported to felpro 1206 with gasket to show hwo close the ports look, i had to remove alot more material from the HSR than the patriot heads. it looks rough and wavy but its acutally even and smooth. i left last 1.5-2" rougher than the rest of the HSR intake runners for better fuel atomization and turbulance to mix the fuel with the air better. they are a close match to the felpro.

in all i think it turned out well.... not sure how much HP i gained but im sure its less of a restriction. and should make more power that would have been lost. let me know what u think. or things i should change

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I doubt it will make much difference to power. That's not where the restriction is in the HSR anyway; that's right at the top of the runner where it hooks to the plenum. Since you didn't change the restriction, overall flow (power) is likely unaffected.

But it may cause fuel puddling. After all, what you've done, is to create 8 little mini-plenums right in the middle the runners, where the A/F mixture will slow down, and fuel will tend to fall out out oif the air in the little "slack water" right there.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i didnt think it was gona increase power but it should offer less of a restriciton.

i did port the top of the runners where the plenum bolts on in this link...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...d-hsr-how.html

im not sure i understand what ur talking about with the 8 mini plenums or slack water... the top of the runners have been opened up and smoothed in the link, the pics abover are the exiting ports of the HSR that connect to the head and the head ports that connect to the HSR in pics 1 +2. the HSR has a D port configuration at the top that transitions into square port runners to the heads, wat i did was open up the Dports and sand the runners slightly in the middle and work them smooth into the base runners that i have then opened up to felpro1206, stock HSR ports are alil smaller than felpro1205's.

the injector holes seemt o point directly into the heads intake runners(right behind the intake valve), the fuel is never in the HSR runner at all but since i roughed up the HSR runners for the last 1.5-2" i was hoping to put alil turbulance in the air to mix it better, not to mention the runner changes from a Dport to a square port.

im not understanding u... please explain? and wats "slack water" lol did i do good or bad things lol

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The runner in the intake is small, a more or less constant but slightly increasing cross-section once it opens up from the teeny hole where it looks into the plenum. The heads are small, being only 195cc.

So if you imagine the cross-section of the runner starting at the plenum and proceeding downward (in other words, "be" the incoming air), you pass through the eye of a needle (top of the runner), enter a gradually slightly increasing area runner, then you come to this giant bulge you just created, then you go into the head while still in the bulge, then the runner necks back down after you pass the bulge and get closer to the valve.

Your velocity starts out high; gradually decreases down the intake runner; slows down DRASTICALLY at the gasket (the "slack water" location... if you've ever looked at a river, and noticed that where the river is narrow, it's fast, and where it's wide, it's slow); then speeds up again as it gets near the valve.

The ideal port design for power has the runner starting out large and getting progressively smaller, at a constant (or pow-order) low rate, as it approaches the valve. (One of the limiting factors of the Stealth Ram in the first place... since it's originally a "looks" piece, not a go-fast piece, the runner is built backwards, but since it "looks" vaguely "streamlined", the kids ooohing and aaaahing over the square inches of chrome in the car show and casting their Best Of Show ballots still think it "looks" fast) The incoming charge should gradually speed up therefore, at a constant rate. The more it has to speed up and slow down, and change direction, the less desirable it is. Wherever it slows down, fuel droplets fall out of suspension. Doesn't matter if it's FI or carb. In fact, you're injecting the fuel right directly into the slowest part of the whole thing, as contrasted with proper design which wants it injected into the fastest place (best atomization). Which ends up creating poor BSFC and requiring a low A/F ratio (highly rich) for max power.

Inefficient. Not ideal.

Think of the intake tract as being a number of sections of garden hose. Imagine that the piece where the runner meets the plenum as ½". Now imagine that it gradually increases to ¾" as it travels down the runner, and the head is also ¾". How much overall system flow (power) did you gain if you ported that ONE section out to 1"?

I just don't see it as having been a good idea. If it were me, I'd have set it all up to 1205 size, or just left it alone. Because, that's not where the restriction is, so it doesn't really matter what you do to it, you can't improve the overall system by working on it, no matter what you do or how "perfect" you make it. All you can do there, is make it worse.

But who am I to say; let us know how it works out.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i understand what your saying now... kinda sux lol

the reason i did it was i had a felpro 1205 in hand and when i matched it to the head and intake the gasket wouldnt seal, thats when i posted n here that i didnt understand why the 1205 ports were so far off that it wouldnt seal. i then found out that the patriot 195cc heads required a 1206 gasket, then the 1206 was matched up to the HSR the ports fit but there was so much extra material that the lip would have caused a swirl back turbulance. so i figured i would just portmatch the intake/heads to the gasket since i was really just uponing up the intake, the heads are just gasket matched.

the heads are small at 195cc but they flow 260-270cfm, and the HSR was able to flow 275cfm i believe. i didnt think it would affect the air velocities that much or be more of a restriction vs the other non ported setup.

i'll def be gettin this thing dyno'd and tuned and see how it works out

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

defiantley keep me posted man!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

would the mini plenum idea have any similar effect to the motors power band like siamesing the TPI intake does?

it would seem that siamesing the middle of a TPI runner would do no good what so ever but its proven to work.

maybe opening up that section before the head port will act like a shorter runner, pushing power higher in the rpm range?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

lol i like where your heads at 0rr89rocz! idk well see in the spring when it goes in

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

just a thought but what was said above makes sense to me too

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

what would you suggest we run then if the hsr is really nothing more then a show piece?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

MiniRam

The HSR is better than TPI, but far from "perfect".

Those with long memories may recall a product from Holley back in about 1980, named IIRC the "Street Ram". It was a dual-4-barrel "tunnel ram" looking thing, with 2 small plenums on top for the carbs to bolt to, advertised specifically for street rods and other such applications where the "look" was important. Imagine our surprise when we saw the same base casting, with injector bungs cast in and a single side-draft plenum stuck off on top of it.

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

well i'll sell my hsr, you throw in the extra grand and i'll get one. for that extra grand i could throw on a nitrous kit and make up wayyyyyy more then what a miniram would give me over an hsr.

2 local cars both tuned by the same person at the same dyno shop. and i know there are some variables, but it's a somewhat alright comparison if you ask me. both went through automatic trannys. the miniram car has a 4l60e and is running the ls1 411 ecm. the zz383 car is running a SD setup.

zz383 crate motor, hsr, super comp LT's
378 RWHP
426 lb-ft RWTorque

383 miniram, TFS heads, lpe219 cam, super comp LT's
355 rwhp
364 rwtq

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Why would I want to do that?

You asked what would work better, not what I would be willing to buy for you.Sure you could.... and then the guy with the MiniRam could "throw on" the same nitrous kit, and then what?

Believe whatever you like, buy whatever you want, it's OK by me.... I like to see people like that in the other lane.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So, two very different cars, engines, tunes, and intakes. What is your point??

ugg.

-- Joe