Alternative Port EFI IntakesThis board is for tech discussions and questions about aftermarket port EFI such as the HSR, MR, SR, BBK, FIRST, etc.
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Ok, so I'm building a 383 for my 85 T/A.. I have read that the factory TPI setup cannot be made to work with the demands of a 383. I need to keep the egr valve for emissions purposes. I havent bought heads for this motor yet, or an intake or fuel inj. system. I would also like to keep my factory 4 vent hood. I am not opposed to any aftermarket system, so any suggestions would be appreciated. I will be backing this motor up with a t-56 and it will be a street driven car. I want something high-revving that makes good power throughout the entire rev-range. I also havent selected a cam yet. As I said, any help would be appreciated!
Thanks, guys!!
I have a post for modifying the Accel SuperRam. I believe one cleaned up a little would be more than enough for your motor. The one I modified went on a 406 motor. Even in the stock configuration it is probably your best bet and still keep emissions.
Last edited by 1989GTATransAm; 09-24-2008 at 09:50 PM.
Thank you 89gtatransam!! I was looking at the possibility of using a single plane. I assume that setup is using accel dfi for its electronics/tuning? I was kind of thinking of going with a maf system with an elbow for intake maybe. I just dont know enough about this stuff. I'm still trying to get used to LS-1 edit.
I would port an Accel Super Ram if you can find one. However, I understand that they are out-of-production. Check with Summit Racing and Jegs. The main restriction here is the intake base (intake manifold). This must be ported. Also port the runners. The Accel SR has provisions for the EGR,,, the Holley SealthRam does not. If not for the EGR, the HSR is the best choice today.
Whats this about LS1Edit? When tuning our OBDI 3rd gen cars, we "burn" Eprom chips. There are several ways to do this. Check with the DIY Eprom board here.
__________________ '87 L98 TPI IROCZ, 395cu.in. ZZ4 block (.030" over bore), ported Holley StealthRam; 3.875" Callies DragonSlayer crank, 5.85" Eagle H-beam rods, 14cc dished SRP pistons part# 148988, AFR190 heads, 3.70 rear gears, 224*/230* 114*LSA 0.530/0.536 lift CompCams cam, 1.6 roller rockers, 3000 Art Carr TC, SLP 1 3/4" headers, SLP cat-back, no cat, no AC, MAF w/o screens, 30#/hr Ford injectors, 52mm TB with airfoil, TB coolant bypass, Lay Ind. ram air kit, SS Brakes 1LE upgrade 12" rotors dual piston calipers, turbo TransAm fuel pump, K.Brown weld-on subframes. Rear tires: P295/35R18 BFG Drag Radials.
Best ET 12.12 sec @ 110.55 mph @ Milan.
With 395, ET 12.197 sec @ 113.65 mph @ Milan.
With 350, ET 12.97sec @ 105mph M/T ET Streets.
Best with HSR: ET 12.385 sec @ 108mph @ OSW.
Thank you doc!! I have an ls1 in my 90 RS. The software is easy to use (For the most part.) I would like to have the same sort of tuning abilities with the new system in my T/A. Burning chips does not sound like a whole lot of fun. (I have a few friends who do it... ) I would like to be able to tune my T/A the same way. my RS has a F.A.S.T. setup in it and I would like to use that system or something similar to it, if I could...
I will be backing this motor up with a t-56 and it will be a street driven car. I want something high-revving that makes good power throughout the entire rev-range. I also havent selected a cam yet. As I said, any help would be appreciated!
Thanks, guys!!
High-revving plus street car does not equal fun. A 383 TPI plus a SuperRam is going to give you a limit of about 5500 rpms. The extra cubes are going to give you more than enough torque for the street.
I drive my company truck to work, most days. If need be, I always have my jeep or my 86 IROC. The T/A is going to be my fun car. I already have a track car (90 RS). I just want something "Streetable" That will not be too aggravating to drive on the street. It needs to be able to pass emissions.
Thanks!!
High-revving plus street car does not equal fun. A 383 TPI plus a SuperRam is going to give you a limit of about 5500 rpms. The extra cubes are going to give you more than enough torque for the street.
We all love torque!! Whatever setup I use, I want it to be tunable on the fly... Is the superram going to fit under the 4-vent hood? I want to get something that can be used for future upgrades... (STS twin-turbo system in the future) How about a superram with F.A.S.T. XFI ?
Dynamic EFI flash ebl with the port mod done.Will be cheaper than F.A.S.T stuff and will handle up grades along with Power adders later. Tuned with a laptop on the fly. Just my 2c's
Super ram is a good bet...actually probly your only choice unless you cut up a TPI manifold and use cut up welded SLP runners to get your revs
Keep the 383 to 6000 rpms or under and it will be a blast. My HSR goes to 6300 and its a BLAST on the street but its not emissions legal
FIRST TPI is a big TPI setup that should peak in the 5000-5500 range on that motor yet still make some power since it flows well.
Orr, I thought that we had decided it was probably closer to 5500-6000 RPM for the FIRST? That's why my FIRST motor should be about able to keep pace with your HSR?
anyways, i suggest FIRST.
/goes off to check the facts
edit: well in the engine they have online, it peaks at 5000 and falls off after like 5400. But i remembered where my thoughts came from, I was going to heavily port my FIRST runners so i could shift at like 6100 . Plus they don't tell what cam it is, my AFR heads should flow better than their heads, and my compression will be up a bit. Who knows. It says it "supports up to 600 HP" so your guess is as good as mine.
Last edited by LMSkyliner; 09-27-2008 at 09:37 PM.
Dynamic efi flash ebl? Port mod? 2c's? I'm more confused than before... It sounds interesting, but I'd like to know more. The accel superram sounds good, but is it the best?
well for a torquey first streetable emission legal setup i'd try to keep the cam down where it will peak in the 5000-5500 range. First should beable to do 5500 rpm peak and support abit of power past that but its runners are abit too long for higher rpm hp. it just flows so much that you can make big hp at lower rpms if you setup the rest of the combo right
www.Firstfuelinjection.com. It's a little known system for our cars. It's basically a larger TPI, so it supports alittle more high end power, but it also seems to retain the TPI's torquey nature throughout the RPM band. It's the system I plan on running on my 383.
Thank you for the link LMSkyliner!! I will check it out.
Justin89formy; The miniram does not have an egr valve does it? It will never pass the visual in az if it does not have one.
nope the only emissions legal stuff is superam, TPI stuff, and FIRST but i dont think first has EO or CARB number for those that require those numbers to be legal. TPI/superram stuff does
Az does not have strict requirements that they comply with a set of parameters. They only require that they pass an exhaust/dyno test and a visual inspection.
i do believe the FIRST runners are just abit shorter in length than the stock style TPI stuff. So there you will make abit more power in a higher rpm range but not too much more tho. i can see 5500 peak which is great for a streetable car
i do believe the FIRST runners are just abit shorter in length than the stock style TPI stuff. So there you will make abit more power in a higher rpm range but not too much more tho. i can see 5500 peak which is great for a streetable car
Ah! that's the other thing i forgot. He is correct. The FIRST runners are the second longest of any intake, but the TPI's runners are indeed as much as a few inches longer over all. Moves the RPM band up.
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ View Post
i do believe the FIRST runners are just abit shorter in length than the stock style TPI stuff. So there you will make abit more power in a higher rpm range but not too much more tho. i can see 5500 peak which is great for a streetable car
Ah! that's the other thing i forgot. He is correct. The FIRST runners are the second longest of any intake, but the TPI's runners are indeed as much as a few inches longer over all. Moves the RPM band up.
I have measured the total lengths (runner + base), diameters, and plenum volumes of an ACCEL base + AS&M runners versus the FIRST. I'm planning on using the FIRST (with significant porting) on the 383 I am currently building for my 89 Corvette.
i bought a 383 vortech stroker from jegs and put the spdc intake with slp runners 58mm bbk throttle body, underdrive pulleys, full exhaust , bigger injectors, chip tuned by fast chip.............. all sounds good but car is running way to rich i have adjustable fuel psi regulator and at the lowest setting the gas fumes will make your eyes water, im sort of fed up with tpi and its limitations my problem is probably to big of a fuel injector, but when i get the cash i swapping to carb and selling the tpi goodies.
i bought a 383 vortech stroker from jegs and put the spdc intake with slp runners 58mm bbk throttle body, underdrive pulleys, full exhaust , bigger injectors, chip tuned by fast chip.............. all sounds good but car is running way to rich i have adjustable fuel psi regulator and at the lowest setting the gas fumes will make your eyes water, im sort of fed up with tpi and its limitations my problem is probably to big of a fuel injector, but when i get the cash i swapping to carb and selling the tpi goodies.
I have a similar setup, but found on a dyno that the mail-order tune is far too rich, the Scoggin base is very restrictive right at the injectors bosses, and the stock intake system is just not letting in enough air. Also the stock fuel pump wasn't supplying enough fuel volume, so it would be very rich at low RPMs and go lean at peak.
Everything Im reading has got something going wrong with; Superram/miniram/stelthram, etc... After looking at anesthes's numbers, I'm seriously thinking of going the same way... It looks good and performs good (It's got some issues, but I'm sure these are fuel pump and tuning issues, as he said.) I'm liking the fact that it didnt cost all that much, and seems to perform well, compared to some of the other systems on the market. I also like the fact its not something you see everyday.
Unfortunately yes, these TPI parts were created before people knew much about TPI's. They all have issues that require some custom porting to fix.
TPI's strength is torque, not horsepower, so these long-runner intakes are designed to improve torque at the cost of higher rpm horsepower. You need to shorten the runners a lot if you want horsepower.
Stealth ram is probly the easiest to do between all of the setups. single planes are nice and should beable to piece together a kit but there isnt much of a plenum area for your vacuum lines. I'm not sure how all those will hook up but pricewise it may be same cost as a stealth ram. stealth ram supports 500hp so its not a bad choice.
I have read that the factory TPI setup cannot be made to work with the demands of a 383.
If we're talking naturally aspirated, I would most certainly agree. However, if you will consider running a turbo charger, than the factory TPI setup (albeit ported of course) will do just fine with your particular goals....
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA: 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
I like the looks of the stealth ram, but no egr valve means I can't get past emissions!! LOL, I already have one car that wont pass emissions!! I am hoping that vacuum wont be a problem. Kinda need my brakes...
I like the looks of the stealth ram, but no egr valve means I can't get past emissions!!
You can always consider the route that I almost went (and still might), although you'll need to be a little creative though. Was going to run a distributorless LT1 intake (keeping the EGR intact), w/the oil pump drive bolted with a bracket underneath the intake manifold, while running an EDIS-8 ignition system....
^ In case your interested though, I recently purchased a complete TPI setup for one of my projects, but I had a change of heart, and stood with the carburetor. I'm getting ready to put the TPI setup for sale. I also have an LT1 intake swap that will be finished soon for sale as well. I'm only asking what I myself paid for the TPI setup....
-Rob
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA: 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
The LT1 setup will be finished soon, if interested, I just didn't drill the hole for the distributor. It'll come with the oil pump driver in the picture, it just needs to be internally bracketed. Either that, or just have someone drill the hole for the dizzy. Comes w/rail and injectors...
Anyways, good luck....
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA: 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
Any 190-200 cc head will do. Any of the big name aluminum head makers are pretty good. I like my AFR's they are supporting big power and have room for more with better intake/cam
Thank you, Orr89rocz! I was thinking AFR or TFS, but wasnt too sure.... What about a cam? I want something aggressive but not to the point it stalls very easily on the street!
keep it around 230 on the intake duration and whatever you want on the exhaust depending on the setup and it should be good to go. I'm running 230 on the intake, .603 lift for my AFR heads and it revs out to 6500 rpm but is tame on the street.
depending on the grind you could go 236-238 without problems
but its not emissions legal
. Plus they don't tell what cam it is, my AFR heads should flow better than their heads, and my compression will be up a bit. Who knows. It says it "supports up to 600 HP" so your guess is as good as mine. 
