Alternative Port EFI IntakesThis board is for tech discussions and questions about aftermarket port EFI such as the HSR, MR, SR, BBK, FIRST, etc.
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I have searched diligently in this forum and elsewhere for the past several months and still can find only very, very limited performance numbers for the FIRST TPI.
In particular, I am looking for OEM TPI/modified TPI vs FIRST TPI on the same engine. I'm most interested in 355 and 406, but any displacement would be fine.
Why is the FIRST not more popular? I understand when it originally came out as a package that it had to be bought will the Electromotive system and the intake could not be purchased separately, why popularity might have been low. However, now the intake can be purchased individually and its popularity still seems to be low.
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It may have something to do with the cost of the first system.You can get other aftermarket intakes used for a good deal less money.A few guys around here are working on the first system.One has even modified the first base to fit some SLP runners I believe.I cant remember wher eI saw some of the posts so hopefully someone will chime in.
I also think the first system was unavailable for awhile,IIRC.
Did you check the stickies on top of the tpi board.I thought I remembered seeing something about the firs system on the "quest for a better flowing TPI"thread.Wish I could afford it,It`s a great system from what I ve read/heard.
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5.7,Stock TPI,LT4 production cam w/1.6 R.R.
ZZ4 heads,Hooker 2460 headers w/full 3" exhaust
2500 stall,3.42 gear,suspension mods.Full list of mods in VB garage.
Did you check the stickies on top of the tpi board.
I hadn't checked out the stickies at the top of this forum until you mentioned them. Thanks for pointing them out. Unfortunately, the FIRST appears not to be included in the thread "Aftermarket Intakes & Conversions" or any of the other sticky threads,
In the TPI forum I was familiar with the "First Intake Manifold & SLP Runner Project" thread by 1989GTATransAm. Unfortunately, I am interested in the whole FIRST system with its own runners, plenum, and throttle body.
The thread "Ported FIRST Injection Runners" by BadSS in the TPI forum has the most info I have been able to find on the FIRST system.
Have you checked out their website?I was just there and I did see a number or email that you could contact them and see what they say.I emailed them awhile back with a couple of questions and they responded quickly.
The thread "Ported FIRST Injection Runners" by BadSS in the TPI forum has the most info I have been able to find on the FIRST system.
Sol, For some reason the thread was split and there's more information in the Alternative forum under the same name. Here's a cut and paste that has a little comparative information that the TPI thread doesn't
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As far as intakes go,,, it's all about what you want from the car. I liked the FIRST on the IROC,, because of the midrange boost from the longer runners. It pulled almost as hard as the fully ported base and "customized" SLP runners - I took them on and off the car grinding a little,, then doing three or four vericom (g-tech) passes until the ETs and MPH leveled off. It was as "tuned" as it could be for that combination and the FIRST right out of the box performed better over all.
I liked the StealthRam,, but missed the midrange rush of the old TPI - although I did like how the car could hook decently on street tires,, something impossible to do with the old TPI/SLP combo,,, and how well it ran from a kick. The FIRST is middle of the road,, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It moved the power band up a few hundred RPM compared to the fully ported TPI/SLP combo,,, but not as high as the StealthRam.
Power band wise:
TPI/SLP - off idle to 5500 rpm - high-12.9s@105mph
FIRST - 2000 - 5800 - mid-12.5s@107mph
HSR - 3000 - 6400 - low-12.6s@108
ETs are for similar conditions with temps in the high 80s
A buddy with a 13.0 LS car would pull ever so slightly away from me with the old TPI/SLP combo from a 60mph kick. I could blow his doors off with either the HSR or the FIRST - with the HSR being a steady even pull while the FIRST would really put it on him on the initial hit and kinda tapered off a bit. That same 13.0 car could hand over the TPI/SLP combo on street tires,, bad,, I could not hook the thing. Again,, with the StealthRam and the FIRST I could flat blow his doors off,,, but the FIRST was harder to hook. Like I said,, it all depends on what you're looking for. I never ran a ported FIRST on the IROC, but would have expected about a .12 reduction in ETs over the box stock FIRST with relatively minor port work / clean-up. Not that it's bad out of the box,,, it's just sized to a stock exit,, and it turns down into it. The injector bumps are also quite large and can be dang near flattened out.
Hope that helps.
As far as popularity,,, there's basically no advertisement or marketing done on the FIRST. It's all word of mouth. I haven't seen many people running them,,, but those that are seem very pleased with the results. I have feeling that there will be a few more reports on the FIRST over at corvetteforums.com as soon as the guys participating in the FIRST group buy installs them.
They are much more popular with the Corvette crowd because they fit under the hood of the C4s. Here not so much though. Like he said, there's no advertising by them.
From what I understand you can hog these waaaay out to support big-cube small blocks. Porting ability is so huge it's disgusting. And it looks similar enough to stock to probably pass emissions everywhere except California.
It also supports EGR and everything else your TPI computer does. If you already have TPI, MAF or MAP, it's a pretty direct swap. I think it uses an earlier year EGR valve. Call and ask.
From what I understand you can hog these waaaay out to support big-cube small blocks. Porting ability is so huge it's disgusting. And it looks similar enough to stock to probably pass emissions everywhere except California.
It also supports EGR and everything else your TPI computer does. If you already have TPI, MAF or MAP, it's a pretty direct swap. I think it uses an earlier year EGR valve. Call and ask.
The good thing is that the First intake looks so much like a factory intake that even an experience eye at the emissions station won't notice the difference.
I do like the first, but I was VERY happy with my HSR.
The good thing is that the First intake looks so much like a factory intake that even an experience eye at the emissions station won't notice the difference.
I do like the first, but I was VERY happy with my HSR.
Milling the FIRST off the plenum and milling the TPI off the plenum side plate and them blasting the plenum and side plate to the same texture might result in even less attention from a smog tech.
I had a friend tell me about the First TPI kit last night and I was intrigued because I had never heard of it before. Although I love my L98 TPI , (aesthetically its one of the coolest looking engines i've ever seen) for as much I feel that I might be able to acquire an LS1, (shortblock) and begin that conversion. If not perhaps an HSR also. Has anyone since tried this setup that can set me straight on this ?
I have searched diligently in this forum and elsewhere for the past several months and still can find only very, very limited performance numbers for the FIRST TPI.
I know I have a hard time trying to find more posts about the FFI intake only because the word “first” is a very common word. So if you do a search for “FIRST”, you’ll get lots of unrelated posts. It’s just as bad as if you were trying to find a post for an intake call “the”.
That’s why I started calling the First Fuel Injections Intake FFI. I hope the FFI acronym starts picking up on these boards only so it would be easier to find more posts on our searches. Just a thought…
TPI stands for tuned port injection. Chevy designed TPI intake to make good torque over HP. The length of the runner (circular tubes on side) create an air wave effect that boosts torque in the mid rpm ranges. The TPI intake, runners, and manifold base on your car was designed for the 305 V-8. Chevy did not design a bigger TPI intake for the 350 V-8. The stock TPI intake runs out of breath on the 350 and that's why your car seems to loose steam after 4,500 rpm.
Toughest choice for us when upgrading engine is to determine what intake is best. Some intakes produce lots of HP at high rpm's (TPIS miniram, Holley stealth ram) while others favor torque at more normal rpm's (TPIS large tube runners, FIRST).
You'll notice that from pictures on FIRST website, the intake looks very similar to stock that's on your car. FIRST was designed with larger diamater runners and mainfold that has less flow restrictions. FIRST flows alot of air and still favors torque while looking similar to stock. FIRST costs $1,000 that comes with a one piece unit containing intake plenum, runners and manifold. You have to buy after markert fuel rails which isn't much. FIRST will do group discouts at $800 if we can get 6 or more people to buy I believe.
Advantage of FIRST is that it is an all in one unit that flows very well out of the box and can be ported for high performance engines (383 V-8+). Before FIRST, the main option for an aftermarket TPI intake was something like TPIS large tube runners and big mouth base. For this you also needed a larger aftermarket throttle body. FIRST costs the same compared to TPIS system new so FIRST makes sense if starting from stock engine. However you maybe able to find good used parts.
Here are some good links. BadSS has many good posts if you search for posts under his name. Search engine here doesn't like "first" so tricky to find them.
Here is good article comparing different intakes on a 383 (350 stroked to 383 cubic inches). Dyno charts show more HP and torque than 350 but you can see how each intake affects how much power is made and where in the rpm band.
1989GTAtransAm, is the FIRST taller than stock TPI, and if so, how much. I was able to get the Edelbrock 3-pt strut brace on my 91 Formula with a little trimming under the hood and would like to keep it if possible.
Yes the base is a little taller but works just fine on my car. I don't know how much taller the whole thing including the runners and plenum would be. Maybe BadSS can chime in as he has one.
Just an observation but I would bet a worked over First Intake System would support 600 flywheel horsepower. There is a lot to work with.
I have 2 First units 1on a 1956 chevy 355 700r4 370 9in and it runs great 19mpg crusing at 80mph runs 12,70
1 on 40 ford sedan delivery with a stock 79 L98 runs great
Ken at First is great to deal with and will provide alll the tech support you will ever need
I have a 89 ck1500 with a 355, RHS vortec 2.02/1.60, 170 cc heads, edelbrock TPI base and hiflo runners with a ported plenum and EGR, TB= 790cfm. High lift cam on 110 deg. Would this FIRST setup be a definite step up?
I believe that it would be because the runners are larger and it helps all thru the rpm range.call ken at first he can help you. the big thing is the computer tuning to get all the horsepower possible
dfarr67, I think you have enough intake flow with your modified parts. FIRST would flow better but I don't think enough to justify spending $1,000. Could sell your current setup for some money. Maybe larger 180cc heads would get you more power. Not sure if going from 170 to 180 will hurt torque for your truck. I think 180cc's still give good throttle response and torque for a 350. Maybe somebody with more engine building experience can chime in.
Yes, been thinking about a few things- like I have everything in order and working- EGR plumbing, etc. When you commit yourself to Vortec- things get limited- more so a few years ago and I think the RHS's are well suited to what I have 6000lbs of PIG. A deal came up $650usd shipped to Canada for the intake and TB less injectors and electronics. Hardly any info on it tho- FIRST is really doing themselves a disservice by not having enough specs for guys to make an informed decision.
Well, I've decided to pass on the deal. But if someone is looking for a FIRST intake for Vortec applications- this guy seems to be 'first' class to deal with....davenutting@gmail.com
