budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I just installed an accel superram on my 91 GTA and I can not get it to idle correctly. I have tried setting the idle with the correct procedure and I have the timing set at the stock 6 degrees. There is a loud hissing noise under my throttle body, could this be a vacuum leak? I have a scanner and I notice my MAP volts are jumping around alot and it is holding 8-9 HG of vacuum.
I have a custom burned chip from pcmforless for my setup if that helps any. Also, when I start it it starts slowly as if advanced too far but I have the timing at 6 degrees and the distributor looks to be in the right spot. I did have it a tooth off and it idled good, but revved slowly compared to now. Could it be a tight exhaust valve? I did have to remove two exhaust rockers to put the superram on, but I followed the procedure given by comp cams to adjust them when I reinstalled them.

Any help? Any questions you guys have that might help figure this out, please feel free to ask as I do have a scanner and can check out anything.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Did you disconnect the timing wire before you set the timing?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Yes I did.

renemedrano842

iTrader: (2)

is it idling fast or erratically you might try spraying some wd-40 where the hissing is coming from. It rpms come up thats a sure sign of a vacuum leak

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Would throttle body cleaner work? It's gonna be kind of hard to spray under the TB, but I can give it a shot.

renemedrano842

iTrader: (2)

yeah pretty sure anything flammable will work, just use with care you dont want to start a fire under the hood ya know

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

right under the throttle body is a vacuum line check that sounds like a leak it's a real PITA to get to on some cars

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Do you mean the vacuum line for the EGR solenoid? If so, yes I have checked it and it is hooked up.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I'll give a shot real quick and post back.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

It's hard to tell with as erratic as the idle is, but throttle body cleaner did seem to make it rev up slightly. We put gasket maker on the TB gasket, so once it cures we'll see what happens.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

The gasket maker did no good and it still has the hissing sound by the TB. It idles erratically and then stalls. I'm stuck on what to do next. I'm thinking timing due to the hard to start thing, but the timing gun said i was at 6 degrees and it runs great in terms of revving it up and so on. It just won't idle.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

right underneath the TB is a vacuum port not sure if it's part of the egr i don't think so that vacuum also runs out to your charcol canister i might be all connected underneath your plenum not sure but the hissing sounds like a vacuum leak somewhere around the TB

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

What cam are you running. I assume it is the stock ECM with custom programmed eprom. Your vacuum seems good at 30KPA. That is about right for idle. What is your fuel pressure? What size injectors are you running? If it is a vaccuum leak, sometimes blocking off the TB will tell the tale. If it continues to run you definetely have a vacuum leak.

If you have an aftermarket TB or one of those aftermarket dividers it will hiss during idle. What RPM is it idling at?

My assumption is that everything is probably fine. I would bet you have an aftermarket cam with an aftermarket intake, and your prom needs some tweeking on the low end. Idle is one of the most difficult aspects to tune. It is highly unlikely it will be perfect with a mail tune. Idle is best done with a little trial and error on the 730 ECM and a large cam. You may be able to band aid with timing, TB settings, and fuel pressure, but chances are it will idle fat and smelly.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

The EGR port under the TB is connected as are all other vacuum lines.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I got the chip done by pcmforless custom for my setup. I have a stock cam. The TB is a 58 MM accel unit. Fuel pressure is set at 43 psi with 24 lb. injectors. Idle RPM is roughly 1,000 RPM.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

What size injectors and what is your fuel pressure?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

43 psi and 24 lb injectors.

Guest

Check to make sure the IAC housing is mounted correctly to the throttle body and not leaking. If there is noise coming from that area, and it idles erratically... that is probably what it is. You should take the TB off to verify its on there like it should be.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

If you have a 58mm BBk TB thats a normal sound. When the computer goes into close loop it will quiet down.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I will check that if worse comes to worse.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I have a 58 MM accel TB. The hissing never goes away or seems to quiet down. I don't mind it, I just want to know if it's normal or if it's the cause of the erratic idle/stalling issue.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

So could this be timing related? It idled perfectly when I had it retarded a tooth and now that i fixed it and have it set at 6 degrees it is hard starting like it's advanced too far and it won't idle for more than a few seconds.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Is it the stock balancer? It is posssible that the outer ring may have shifted and the timing marks are very accurate. Try adjusting the timing a little and see if things get better. If that is the case you may just need to tweek it little by little until you find a good running spot. I had that happen on my stock GTA.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Yes, it is the stock balancer. When it was retarded a tooth it idled nice but revved slowly and backfired once through the exhaust. Now that I fixed it and got it set for 6 degrees, it revs really good but will not hold idle.
I'm friggin lost. Anyone out there near the Ohio/WV/Pa/ border want to come help me out??

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

I would start by moving back 1 or 2 degrees at a time, and see if the idle get better, and try to find a good comprimise for the rev. An advanced engine will be very snappy but it is hard to start, and have idle issue, like you explain.

If you cannot find something workable with timing, I would try adjusting your fuel pressure, first up and then down.

If you adjust it up it will take care of some of the advance because advanced timing likes fuel. If you having issues idling and your timing is right you may need to back the pressure down a little to account for the 24 injectors as stock was 22

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

I had a custom chip burned by pcmforless to work with the superram and injectors and so on and the directions said to run stock pressure and adjust as needed. If I don't get something right with timing I will try fuel.
Could it be the tune? BTW, I do have a scanner that can read all of the sensors, so are there any readings you guys would like me to record that might help out?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

UPDATE:
I made a rookie mistake and didn't check the fuel pressure with the engine running, only with it off. It was indeed low and I set it to about 42 PSI. Also, I notice my timing guns advance **** was turned about halfway up which is the reason for the timing being off.
Now there is one last problem: The throttle blades are shut all of the way and it is idling at about 900 RPM with the IAC unplugged. I assume that is a vaccum leak, but how do I go about finding it? I've tried spraying throttle body cleaner around the gaskets and that does not seem to yield much. Any ideas guys?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Anybody???

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Also, what is this about is the directions for the superram?

"NOTE: on the driver side runner an o ringed plug/plate must be installed."

The only block off plate I know of that needed installed was on the pass. side rear of the manifold base. I saw nothing on the driver side runner needing a plate.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

OK, so I blocked off the throttle body and the engine kept running and I found a vacuum leak with the throttle body cleaner. It would appear it is leaking badly where the runners meet the plenum. We are going to RTV it up inside the plenum box and see if we can fix it up without tearing everything apart again.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Well it sounds like you are getting a handle on it. Some guys have also had luck buying gasket material at NAPA nad making new gaskets for the super ram. Sorry I did not reply back. I have been workin my behind off lately.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

No problems man, I have it all figured out I think.

We tore it apart today and it turns out the gasket maker we used was wrong for the job apparently as it didn't stick at all to the parts of the manifold. We used what was suggested by the guy at carquest.
I will be going to Summit tomorrow for more gaskets. Does anybody have a suggestion for good gasket maker to use? Also, found 3 loose bolts, should we use a touch of loctite on them when we put them back in?

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

I would use the blue loctite if you are going to use any. That should hold without the potential for ruining the threads.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Gotchya on the loctite. Any advice on gasket maker?

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Anybody have some advice on silicone? The directions for the superram call for silicone on all the gaskets.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I didn't use loctite nor any gasket maker. I just the superram gaskets only. Just make sure the screws are tight.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

been running a super ram for over 17 years.

this is how you sould install one..
(Works for me and i never have any leaks, or probs)

after your lower manifold is torked down.

use rubber gloves to spred Ultra Blue OR Ultra Black RTV over your gaskets

this is just enof of the RTV to cover the gaskets (do not glob it on)
let them Air dry for about 2/3 min then apply to you Hard parts.

start you runner bolts. do not snug any bolts on the runners or top half
untill you get them all Started.

you do not have to use Lock tight on any parts. you can apply some RTV to them if you feel better. this will also Keep them from backing out when dry,

the last thing you pop on it the top cover, also apply Ultra RTV to the larg Gasket. spreding it just enof to turn the gasket the colore of the RTV, then lay it down, start your bolts, after getting them all started, snug from the midle bolts and work your way out, swapping sides ea time you snug one up, snug them up in 3 to 4 steps, works every time 0 leaks,
and if you ever have to remove the Runners you can if you Have to reuse the Gaskets. (the Ultra RTV makes it leak free. and lets the gaskets come off in 1 Piece,. I Have sets for Sale $35 shipped (lots of sets)

TA

iTrader: (1)

I had clearance problems with both my windshield wiper motor and my water neck ( I have the shorter SuperRam), which prevented the whole thing from sealing until that stuff was clearanced, because it was binding up and distorting the assembly. Look everything over very carefully and make sure you have clearance everywhere, especially when tightened.

TA

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

I read some place about using white litheum grease on the gaskets and it will help seal them also they can be reused this way.......anyone ever used this befor? Also doe syour SR have any studs installed or any tricks to help with the install? Im still thikin of ways to help with the install on mine so my first SR install is not a total POS to install!

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

We got the superram up and running. I went by the excellent advice given here, especially by arcticwhiteZ to make it happen. We had the gaskets mixed up between sides on the lower runners which allowed a vacuum leak amongst other ones due to forgetting to clean the surfaces first before gasket maker was used. Lesson learned.
But, either way it got done and runs pretty damn good I must say except for a CEL after being on the highway for a little while which I will check out today and a stall issue when putting it in gear.
I put about 200 miles on it yesterday and it did just fine, so I'd imagine the CEL is nothing major.
Thanks for the help guys.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I just finished a SR install on my car a few weeks ago too, and yeah, it's scary when you think about how many possibilities there are on one of these intakes to have a vacuum leak somewhere! I ended up with a vacuum leak on mine too, and I was totally dreading the thought of having to take it back apart again. I got out the can of starting fluid and sprayed all around the top and bottom of the runners without noticing much change in engine rpm, then I sprayed around where the TB mounts to the plenum, and wahlah, there was the leak. I was so lucky it was just leaking there! Turns out the thin TB gasket that came with the SR gasket set wasn't sealing the back of the TB to the plenum surface. It actually sucked my finger against it! I had another TB gasket that was quite a bit thicker, so I kept the original gasket on there and then doubled it up with the thicker one behind the TB. As far as sealer goes, all I did was use some of the black, Permatex, non-hardening sealer on just the runner sides at the top and bottom to tack the gaskets in the proper alignment. My SR was almost brand new when I got it though, the previous owner only had it on for about a month. The next time I have to reassemble it, I'll probably rtv both sides of all the gaskets just to be sure they seal good. Mine likes to stall too when you first put it in drive, but I think it's mainly due to the prom I'm using at the moment. I did have a custom one burned by Alvin at PCMforless, but it got loose in the ECM and when I went to fire up the car it fried the memory adapter/chip, so I had to put a Hypercrap chip in there until I get the custom one fixed and mailed back to me. I'm running 24 lb. SVO injectors and it runs pig rich at idle since the chip thinks I'm running stock 22's! Before the other chip fried it seemed to idle pretty smooth once the vacuum leak was fixed. I'll say one thing, it breathes incredibly well with the SR intake and AFR 190's! I've run it all the way up to around 6K, and it feels like it could still pull a bit higher if I wanted to push it. I used to think putting together a stock TPI intake was kinda complicated, but they're fiddlesticks compared to putting one of these together! Trying to get my TV cable geometry correct was baptism by fire too. Took me about 2 weeks of playing with it before I got the shifts to feel right. Also had to cut my wiper motor grommets in half to get the wiper motor to clear the back of the SR plenum. As much of a PITA as it's been, the gains definitely seem to make it worthwhile! I apologize for ranting on and on in your post Bud , but I just wanted to share some of my triumphs and headaches setting mine up recently! So few of us seem to run the SR these days, it's nice to chat with someone else who has one.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

One thing you should absolutely do to make your install go quicker/easier is to use a dremel with a small cutting wheel and slot the end of the bolts that tighten the inner parts of the upper runners to the underside of the plenum. That way, once you get them started in the holes you can use a really small flathead screwdriver to draw the bolts up until they're almost tight. There's so little room to turn the bolts from underneath with a 1/4 wrench it takes FOREVER to get them tightened. When you draw them up into the plenum with a screwdriver you only have to cinch them tight with the wrench from underneath the plenum. Saves a ton of time! Also make sure not to tighten ANY of the bolts up all the way until you have every one of them threaded into the top and bottom of the runners. One last thing, make sure the bolts for the very bottom of the runners, where they go into the base intake are not too long. If they bottom out before getting tight, you'll definitely have a vacuum leak. The ones I used were only about an inch long. Another tool that's indispensible is one of those t-handled, 8mm allen wrenches with the ball-shaped end. It's almost impossible to tighten the very bottom runner bolts without it. You usually have to remove a rocker arm or two to get the allen tool on the lower bolts, and even then it's at quite an angle, hence the need for the ball-shaped end on the allen wrench. Oh yeah, if your car is an auto, make sure to lay the TV cable down inside the runners before bolting the plenum on! The install really isn't as bad as I'm probably making it sound, it just takes some time and a little patience!