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AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! i've owned my car since 1997 and have had major problems ever since i bought it... ranging from t-top leaks to breaks, alternators, radiators, head gasket, master cylinder, and now rear main seal is leaking oil. I got so tired of the repairs that today I went and talked to my dad about helping me purchase a new car. He told me to put my car up for sale and see what i could get... well.. i used carfax to search for new cars and i ran my VIN just to check it out. I found that the guy i bought it from rolled it back almost 50,000 miles!!!! ::CRY:: i bought it from a guy with a dealer license... and he still works at the place i bought it. I'm just wondering if theres a statute of limitations on this and what anyone can suggest as far as lawyers and what i should tell him when i approach him about this. thoughts? below is a copy of the carfax report.
Body Style: HATCHBACK 2 DR
Engine: 3.1L V6 MPI
Fuel: GASOLINE
Driveline: REAR WHEEL DRIVE
Carburetion: FUEL INJECTED
Cylinders: 6
Manufactured in: UNITED STATES
GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results confirm this 1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD (1G2FS23T7ML231055) qualifies for the CARFAX $5,000 Clean Title History Guarantee.
CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's title history to determine if any title documents were designated or marked with the following problems:
Problem Titles Checked: Results:
Salvage/Junk Checked - No Salvage/Junk Title Found
Rebuilt/Reconstructed Checked - No Rebuilt/Reconstructed Title Found
Flood Damage Checked - No Flood Damage Title Found
Damage Disclosure Checked - No Damage Disclosure Found
Manufacturer Buyback (LEMON) Checked - No Manufacturer Buyback Found
Exceeds Mechanical Limits (EML) Checked - No EML Found
Not Actual Mileage (NAM) Checked - No NAM Found
NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.
ALERT! CARFAX search results on this 1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD (1G2FS23T7ML231055) identify a potential odometer rollback. CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's reported odometer readings to determine if any reading is less than a previously reported reading.
CALCULATION: POTENTIAL ODOMETER ROLLBACK
On 02/26/1996 the odometer reading was reported as: 115,000 miles
On 11/18/1997 the odometer reading was reported as: 66,882 miles
This represents a mileage decrease of: 48,118 miles
NOTE: Information supplied to CARFAX indicates the above odometer readings may not reflect this vehicle's actual mileage. CARFAX depends on its sources to provide reliable information and works diligently to ensure the quality of its Reports. In this case, we recommend you contact the seller or a qualified mechanic to verify this vehicle's actual mileage.
GOOD NEWS! CARFAX search results on this 1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD (1G2FS23T7ML231055) did not uncover any of the following problems:
Problems Checked: Results:
Accident Checked - No Accident Record Found
Salvage Auction Checked - No Salvage Auction Record Found
Failed Emissions Inspection Checked - No Failed Emissions Record Found
Fire Damage Checked - No Fire Damage Record Found
Crash Test Vehicle Checked - No Crash Test Vehicle Record Found
Grey Market Vehicle Checked - No Grey Market Vehicle Record Found
NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.
CARFAX search results on this 1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD (1G2FS23T7ML231055) identify the types of state motor vehicle department registrations, other than private, that appear in this vehicle's history.
Registrations Checked: Results:
Lease Checked - No Lease Registration Found
Rental Checked - No Rental Registration Found
Government Checked - No Government Registration Found
Taxi Checked - No Taxi Registration Found
Fleet Checked - No Fleet Registration Found
Commercial Checked - No Commercial Registration Found
Non-Profit Checked - No Non-Profit Registration Found
NOTE: Click here for a complete CARFAX Glossary.
The CARFAX database contains a total of 5 vehicle history records on this 1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD (1G2FS23T7ML231055):
DATE
REPORTED ODOMETER
READING INFORMATION
SOURCE GENERAL
COMMENTS
03/29/1991 35 Pennsylvania
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Mechanicsburg, PA
Title #43920498
Title or registration issued
First owner reported
On 02/26/96, the car probably did have 115,000 miles, and the owner new to report 115k and not 15k. Then maybe, it swithced owners, and this new owner reported 66,882 instead of 166,882, not aware of the fact that on a thirdgen, at 100,000... ur odometer reads 00,000. This is assuming that your 1991 Firebird doesn't have a one-hundred thousands place either.
and when i bought the car it read 068,660 - not to metion.. i picked up the car on the 19th... so it says on my receipt... how the **** did they put 2,000 miles on my car over night?????
Sec. 32709 Penalties and Enforcement
1. Civil Penalty of not more than $2,000 for each violation. The maximum penalty under this subsection for a related series of violations is $100,000.00.
2. Criminal Penalty: A person that knowingly and willfully violates this chapter or a regulation prescribed or order issued under this chapter shall be fined under Title 18; imprisoned for not more than 3 years.
Sec. 32710 Civil Actions by Private Persons
1. Violation and amount of damages - A person that violates this chapter or a regulation prescribed or order issued under this chapter, with the intent to defraud, is liable for 3 times the actual damages or $1,500.00, whichever is greater.
Sec. 32709 Penalties and Enforcement
1. Civil Penalty of not more than $2,000 for each violation. The maximum penalty under this subsection for a related series of violations is $100,000.00.
2. Criminal Penalty: A person that knowingly and willfully violates this chapter or a regulation prescribed or order issued under this chapter shall be fined under Title 18; imprisoned for not more than 3 years.
Sec. 32710 Civil Actions by Private Persons
1. Violation and amount of damages - A person that violates this chapter or a regulation prescribed or order issued under this chapter, with the intent to defraud, is liable for 3 times the actual damages or $1,500.00, whichever is greater.
2. Civil Actions: A person may bring a civil action to enforce a claim under this section in an appropriate United States district court or in another court of competent jurisdiction. This action must be brought no later than 2 years after the claim accrues. The court shall award cost and a reasonable attorney's fee to the person when a judgment is entered for that person.
It would be hard to prove that the dealer did it unless the documentation shows they received the car and sold it with different mileage readings. I doubt they would be that sloppy or stupid. More likely an owner previous to the dealer did it by switching the gauges out. Just don't you fall into the trap of trying to sale the car as the odometer mileage now that you know it is otherwise. Just tell people the truth and chalk it up to experience. The problems you mention are typical for a car with that much mileage on it and just part of owning an american muscle car.
__________________ 87 TA, 350 TPI, Custom CAI, K&N, ACCEL 8mm wires,ACCEL Super-coil, ACCEL Plugs, JET TPI Airfoil, Flowmaster, 160* thermostat The Phenix Project..click to see my project car
Trans Am stuff and GIRLS, GIRLS, GIRLS!!!!!
i don't have to prove that the dealer did anything, its his responsibility to check the authenticity of the milage (if he didn't roll it back himself). chalk it up to experience? u must be joking. thanks for your input though.
If you have the carfax report. thats it. It should show the milage at various intervals. Including before and after the "dealer" got the car. On the sales reciept check the milage. It HAS TO BE PUT ON THE RECEIPT. check that number to the carfax. I beleive dealers have to enter certian info into places like carfax when they get a car?.
Anyway a freind in VA BEach bought a car. It had been turned back 70K! miles. Yup biggie there. he got a "good dealer" to get the carfax. The place that he bought it from entered the milage when they got the car at the correct milage. BIG MISTAKE. He went to the VA D.A's office with this info. The dealer had 30 days to find the exact same car WITH that milage, or hand the car over free of charge, AND REFUND ANY MONIES GIVEN. Needless to say your not gonna find a 3 year old KIA with 17K miles. Freind got the car free of charge, plus an additional 5K.
PS there is a very long time limit on cases like that, for that very reason. 5-7 years maybe longer.
Well sorry to say but I think the satute of limitations is only 4 years for contracts such as this. You just barely missed it. BUT, if you did not pay for the car all at once, I THINK that you do not start counting four years until after you made your last payment and the car is fully yours. Good luck man, thats gotta suck. I feel for you.
welp... its been fun talking to lawyers and dealing with all this the past few weeks (sarcasm), but finally we reached a result. They decided to settle instead of going to court and I'm getting a good amount of $ back + the car and they are fixing any problems it has (oil leak, breaks, etc). Just wanted anyone else with a rolled back odometer out there to know that there is somethign you can do about it, despite what some idiot on here said about "oh you should just chalk it up to a bad experience". So anyway with the new money I'm going to buy a late model Mustang and keep the firebird as a 2nd car. Not too sure anyone would want it a v6 firebird with 160,000 miles on it. =P
p.s. if anyone knows where I can find a cheap front bumper for it... mine has some cracks in it... let me know.
That's so awesome, I'm glad to hear that's it's possible to get justice......but buy a late model TA instead of the stang damn it! Just kidding. Kind of.
I just bought a '91 RS with 212,000 miles on it, and it's in great condition. I think they rolled the speedometer forward on it. How can I tell for sure?
I just bought a '91 RS with 212,000 miles on it, and it's in great condition. I think they rolled the speedometer forward on it. How can I tell for sure?
Do like the op did, get a Car Fax report. I won't buy a used car without one.
I love getting random E-mails from Thirdgen that someone replied to a thread that looks completely unfamilliar to me. I'm always thinking, "I wonder how old THIS randomly bumped thread is going to be..."
Also in the garage 1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX -
318AWHP Before the bottom end blew out on 3/18/05. Haven't touched it since. 1995 Lexus SC300-
Too many mods to list...currently being turbo'd. 1993 Subaru Legacy Sport Sedan-
Turbo AWD beater. Slightly Modded 1997 Honda CBR F3-
1/4 at 10.9 -As fast as I need to go w/o a seatbelt.
Do like the op did, get a Car Fax report. I won't buy a used car without one.
Seriously? You'd pay for a Carfax on a car with 200K miles on it??? That's like asking a prostitute you're about to marry how many guys she's been with...
Seriously? You'd pay for a Carfax on a car with 200K miles on it??? That's like asking a prostitute you're about to marry how many guys she's been with...
I disagree - not all 20-something's have lived that tough of a life. An accident free car with 200K can always be restored, whereas a car can roll off the showroom floor, get T-boned, have some serious frame damage and never be right.
Relying on a Carfax to tell you if a car has been in an accident is foolish. Two good eyeballs, a magnet, flashlight, and tape measure can tell you if something has been wrecked and poorly repaired.
My first Camaro was a Frankenstein of three different bodies. The one on the title was only present from the the driver's seat forward. Since the car was never totalled by any insurance company, there's no record on Carfax of it having been in a wreck...and it had been in a very serious one, but repo'ed and re-sold before it could be totaled.
carfax only can report on what they have been told about. Just because a car has been wrecked, does not mean it was fixed with insurance company help, or that it was done recently enough to have been keep track of. I have looked at cars that have clean carfax reports and have been in accidents and repaired.
Car fax is a good start, but you cant rely on it for everything. You still have to check the car over really well to know for sure.
Relying on a Carfax to tell you if a car has been in an accident is foolish. Two good eyeballs, a magnet, flashlight, and tape measure can tell you if something has been wrecked and poorly repaired.
My first Camaro was a Frankenstein of three different bodies. The one on the title was only present from the the driver's seat forward. Since the car was never totalled by any insurance company, there's no record on Carfax of it having been in a wreck...and it had been in a very serious one, but repo'ed and re-sold before it could be totaled.
Where did anyone ever say that they would rely on it? I think you missed the point. I agree that just because a car has a clear carfax doesn't mean that you shouldn't do your due diligance and go through the car with a fine tooth comb.
However, my point was that just because you go through a car with a fine tooth comb doesn't mean you shouldn't pay the whopping $20 or so to pull a carfax as well (which you insinuated was foolish). Even the best mechanic can miss significant damage if panels have been replaced as opposed to bonded, or pick up on flood damage, fire damage, etc.
Regardless, when you are buying a used car, you're taking a risk - period. All you can do is take as many precautions as possible.
Kind of.
