As with a certin amount of people, I don't care much for the huge headlights put on the firebirds when they are up. since I had to fix the gears anyways, I figured I might as well change the headlamps to something a little more appealing/less annoying from the drivers seat when they are up. I don't want fixed lights, just something that doesn't pop up quite as high as the stock lamps but still has a stock-ish appearance. My idea is to just use grand prix style lights and have the housings pop up just a slight amount. The pic below is just the lamp held in place by the plastic to give an idea of the look I'm aiming for. I kind of like it. Better, worse, indifferent... what do any of you think ?

I like the lazy eye look, however something doesn't seem right with yours. I think its the size of the lamps, if they were maybe a bit wider or have two smaller ones next to each other. Also those might be a little to small in general. But I like the idea you should play around with it more, I'd like to see how it ultimately comes out.

Ive seen this on alot of ford probe websites - the 'sleepy eyed mod'. I think it looks okay.

i like the sleepy eye mod on the probes, but that's not quite what he's trying to accomplish here. he wants to just have a smaller light so the housing don't have to pop up as high. i agree that you need a wider lamp for it to look right

quick photoshop, i made the lamp wider

That's a good quick hack but, unfortunatly, I haven''t found anything 'off the shelf' that is similar shaped. probably one of the things making it look a bit odd/unproportionate is the housing isn't trimmed quite like I'm aiming for. What's between the marks in the pic is too be remooved) The 'door', when done as I vision, should open parallel to the ground (less than it is now). I realize that no hood doesn't help the visual either (blame the weather)...

Dude,

check with redraif. She's done some pretty cool mods including the headlight deal.

http://www.cardomain.com/id/redraif

This is a photoshop I did awhile ago, there was a thread on it too talking about the idea, I'll try to find it

Here's the thread: http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...hreadid=148958

I say go for it, i'd love to see someone actually do this

Redraif did an excellent job on her lights but, as stated above, it's not what I what.
JimmyG... that's very close to the look I am aiming for. Thanks for the link too. Looking over it, I remember when you posted and liked the idea alot. NSX lights aren't really in my budget though but, my aim is for a very close copy to that look.
With the small light I have, the door won't even open up as far as it is chopped in your pic. Even if this idea fails, the headlamp I have will work as a replacement driving light.

There are plenty of other cars that have this as an aftermarket kit, like said before the probe, miata's have them, If you could get ahold of one of them and modify it some to work with the bird, that probably be easier then starting all from scratch

Good Luck

What if you use something similar to the 98 up birds? They have seperate beams sitting side by side. Then you can use the narrower lights. i've been trying to figure how to do that for awhile now, but I haven't come up with any good ideas.

The hardest part is going to be finding a lamp that will be the right size. Even my mod the problem was the size of the driving lamps. The problem is always the width. 2 side by side are 2 wide. One alone is never wide enough.

I got a reminder of how oddjust one fog light there looks. It was funny, 2 days ago I saw a bird with a version of my headlight mod. It was only one driving light, but I could not get a good look since he was going in the opposite direction. It looked like the fog light had just been stuck in front of the closed headlamp. Definately looks better flush mounted like mine! Sorr just had to share.

If I was doing another headlight mod like mine, I would go for the lazy eye version, just to be different.

Deadbird, when the lamp is closed what do you want it to look like? If you want it to appear stock, with the black face still next to the turnsignal, it will be more difficult. But if you want it exactly like JimmyG-91Z's photoshop, when the light is closed, you will see the top of the headlight. It will give you car a look similar to mine when the lights are off...Notice how he shaved away the black front piece in his photo shop...follow me? Just wanting to see how you want it to look so I can help with some suggestions!

JimmyG.. I will do some research into what you've said.. I would rather have more options than limit them. My biggest issue is budget though. What I can make work/fab w/o paying much for or just buying something ready to go. Cost of making and buying weighs in on that. I will look into your suggestion though. Maybe it will prove cheaper/easier to do.
Red.. I want to keep a stock look. I realize the fab work is a little more extensive but, the way I've drawn it out in my mind, it's not too difficult and not extensively out of my skill league (tooling maybe, but, I can improvise if needed ) My pans are to mold the lower part to the upper at a new angle reusing pieces-parts of the old trim (if that makes any sense)...
Below is a poorly pictured explaination and a comparasion of the OEM headlamp compared to what I'm attempting to use...

Add a smaller, round light next to the headlight and use it as a high beam.

What if you did the same thing as RedRaif.. only you did it in the fashion you are looking for. Where they are thin lights like that, but only appear when the door opens.. it would appear stock when the doors are closed.
I've been wanting to do this to my car for a long time. But all the stock headlights I looked at were either too wide, or too tall. I did think that the 300GT lights would work.. they have to be the round ones.

To use deadbirds and my idea together...Its hard to get the lights narrow enough. If I have to raise my lights for any reason they hang up on the turn signal light. Normally it does not matter since mine are fixed, but in this application it has to be just right.

Deadbird. I follow where you are going. For 2 lights...You are going to have to use slim lights like i did. If you can I would try to get 2 in there, as long as it does not hang up... I saw a guy with just the one light and it looks a bit 2 vacant, plus no high beams. And trust me you are going to want high beams. Driving lights are alot less focused then headlights, so on dark streets having the high beam to put out more light is a good thing.

Since you are retaining the stock look, you could go with a round and rectangluar as suggested above. That would ensure a good fit side to side... You would only see them with the lights on...heck it might look cool too, who knows...

I think it looks menacing, like the car is glaring at you. Grrrr.

I dont really like it however when most people headlight motor breaks its the plastic bearings inside. Now you can pay 10.00 for replacements or do like I did and cut rubber hosing to correct length stick a wooden rod the right width and stick it in there. This will never break and should last forever.

Well...I did a little searching for the Probe mod and after seeing a few pics of it, it didn't apprear all tht appealing.
Red.. I just got finished looking over your conversion and I have to say you did some extensive work to get those driving lights in there. The one thing I saw I didn't like is cutting on the lamp mounting bracket. The problem I see is it reduces the integrity of the housing/bracket if it is to stay operational. Weather or not it would I don't know. Also, as you mention, driving light performance seems to be on the low end for having it as the main lamp on the car. Weather or not this is true also, it seems as if these tiny dl's they are making now wouldn't/can't light up the road very well at all. I walked aimlessly around the local auto stores, I found nothing that seems it would make a very good low beam, especially for the $$.
One thing that was funny I saw reading is you mentioned the Gran Prix mount which, is exactly what I got over the weekend at the junkyard. I messed around with them for awhile and came up with this..



mounted and hacked up trim taped in place....


I do agree that something wider or 2 smaller lights would improve the appearance a little but, after getting the GP mounts installed, I don't see anywhere/any room to put them w/o having to hack up the bird's mount.
I believe that for now, it's going to have to be this way until some housings surface at the junkyard so I can have a pair to just hack up at leisure. At the very least, I have a true low beam headlamp and it's adjustable. Now all I have to do is get the trim pieces made which will probably be harder than getting the lights in..

LedZep.. I turned down some o.5oo" ($1.04 to make 6) nylon bushing to replace the original failed ones. Not a tough fix and, I trust nylon being slightly more durable over time than rubber hose. Nearly anything will work though as long as it fits.

I appreciate all the opinions and ideas. Thanks everyone

Please let us know how they perform.

Yes i hated that I had to cut on my original mounting brackets...but with the headlights no longer going up and down, it is less of a factor for me. And I did get spare headlight assemblies just in case something failed.

From you pics it looks like the GP headlights fit in there pretty well. I would think they would also provide superior lighting as well as improved adjustibility. The one thing I would do if I were you...when you cut down the bezel, try to make something that frames the headlight so it looks more finished when it is up. It will look better and will also help keep the dirt and water from getting in around the headlight. Hopefully that will help keep the moisture from getting in around the plug area!

One thing you might check into. See if anyone makes that size headlamp in an aftermarket aplication with removable bulbs. If they do, there might be a way to get a dual filiment bulb to fit in that headlight. Then you would have high and low beams in one housing like our cars have stock. But if you go this route you will have to be sure the back seals very well to keep moisure out. My old conversion to a stock sized replaceable bulb headlight instead of the sealed beam had issues...moisure would get in a blow the bulbs!

Red.. are you talking to Madem Cleo or something ?? (creepy) .. I just used resin earlier to hold the chopped bezel together and picked up some modeling clay so I could mold a new center bezel section to smoothe it and make it look 'stock' (or really close to it). In the (lower) pic (in the post above) I just used some masking tape to hold the bezel alignment until I could bond it in place.

As far as high beams go.. I am really considering adapting the (another pair of) GP low beams to where the driving lights go. The lamp is a perfect replacement size. Tht's to be seen though, I don't need to get to far ahead of myself or my limited budget.
I will have to do a search on the replacement houshing though. I like that idea.

Great Minds!

I have my moments!

Good luck! Keep me posted!

Back from the dead.... mild progress with (personal energy) time allowed... I've got the lights in and they (open) work as I had hoped. I have one bezel nearly completed as well. I am mostly happy with the results...
(crappy pic but, you can get the idea,).....

That looks pretty sweet, can you tell how the light projects as a pose to the stock lights?

how do you get the motor to only open the door half way?

looks good. when you're done, any chance of writing a tech article? fyi, time permitting, i will steal your idea

*agreed*

This should give another option to those with 91-92 cars. With their style nose, they could not even do my style conversion!

.....waits....

Ancient Chinese secret my friend

Actually, with the 87-up headlights. I found out that they stop from resistance (I'm guessing it's some form of a circuit breaker in the headlight module). I added a stop to keep the door from raising using .o98" x ½" aluminum angle (yellow arrow)



There is also another stop on the opposite side but behind the housing for the light (red arrow area). I used a long drywall screw put in at an angle instead of trying to make some overly complex stop. The rubber cap on the original stop screw fits the drywall screw head (hard to explain w/o a pic). After about 20 consecutive openings, the headlights stay perfectly on level.
This is easily verified because the GP headlight housings have a built in bubble level (green arrow) for adjusting them vertically.

*doh... I forgot to add. The light that's working in the pic is one of the high beams that came with the housings (because I couldn't get them out at the yard). I still have to buy another low beam and the harness plugs. The high beams have a slightly different connector from the low beams

thanks for the info

Where did you get the headlights? What dimension are they? What if you just kept the same headlight in and made it just stop a little ways up?

gtabb... The lamps came from autozone. They are replacement lamps for a grand prix (and not cheap either). They are 5¾" x 2½" in size and no, if you stopped the 'birds OEM lamps where mine do, you would be lighting the inside of you bumper.



As you can see, with the new lamps, they don't open quite far enough for the stock lamp to be very effective.

A buddy of mine just bought a 91 eclipse GS (fun turbo car). Anyways, I was watching the pop-up headlights on them. They aren't one complete fixed unit. It's hinged in like three places. The headlights are always completely vertical. Hard to explain but getting those housings would make it easy to rig it up to only come up a certain distance. Just giving another car for you guys to look at.

That's looking really cool man.... could I get a pic of the headlights up, a side angle of the car backed up a little (ie so you can see the whole car), I just want to see how it all comes together.

Good to know that it works. Its certainatly a great idea. I don't like the large goofy looking lights either. I would be more apt to do a fixed headlight since it seems easier and I would not have to bother with the motors every again- that would be nice.


Nice work.

I could figure out what it looks like better with a shot with the hood on, but anyways, did you try using oldsmobile cutlass lights? I see them on the road around here a lot, and they always remind me of redraif's lights. I don't know if they'd fit the firebird enclosure or not, but it's worth a look see.

Mathius

Fyre... this is the only pic I have of the whole car (which isn't much to look at). It's off the ground right now because I'm getting ready to (finally) paint the pass side door (and maybe even the gfx too).



sane... that sounds like a good idea but, the question would be is would those motors work with the 'bird relay module. I don't think there are very many of those areound here in the yard but, I would be curious to see how they operate at the least.

Mat... I'm not sure if the hood is ever going to make it back on the car at the rate I'm going on this turd. It would be nice to have it on though so people will quit nearly running into me from staring like they've never seen an engine before (which I'm aware alot of people haven't).
As far as the olds lights go. If I'm thinking of the ones you're talking about (not the 1 piece composites), those are the same low beams I have in right now.
Anyways, I appreciate all the comments and ideas.

looking good man,

i like it. I love the fact that the birds lights are hidden but like you they just look bad when open. Just looking at that last picture you posted it looks a whole lot more aggressive than the big google eyes.

Keep us posted.

later,
bill

Ooo! This gave me motivation! The buldging "eyes" always bothered me too and I've been thinking about an awesome mod... I'll run a demo tonight and post pics tomorrow if I can

deadbird, you make any more progress on this? we need to see some finished pics, but put your damn hood on first lol. you can just lay it on, we need pics

Hahaaa.. funny . It'll go on after it's painted white. I'm spread a little thin on time, projects, work and sleep at the moment.
Sorry to report, I haven't had a chance to finish them yet but, I hope to get back to them shortly. I've been trying to get my new wing mounted and aligned so I don't break it or something stupid along those lines. I'm going to try to get my rear deck re-attached tonight so I can finish drilling spoiler holes.
I do have some fiberglass pieces on deck to finish the other headlight bezel though. After that, sanding smoothing and some duplicolor trim black. I wish it were as easy to do as it is to say

I was just thinking would LT1 Camaro headlights work any better?

If you're talking about the 93-9? camaro (pic below), they are the same lamps as what I am using.

whoops didn't notice that.

No biggie, GM recycled headlamps like they did doorhandles...

So Deadbird, have you found any high/low beams to use for these headlights, or are you only going with the lows? If there were some way to shave the sides of the lights down so they would fit in there, I'd do it.

Well.. just to let you know.. I've started to make mine also.. I'm using the same lights as DeadBird. Well.. I came up with the correct method for this. I noticed that the bulbs that are in there are just siliconed in, and can be removed from the glass housing. So.. after a little work with the Dremel and some gasoline, I had the low beam bulbs removed. Now it's off to work to pick up some of the newer high/low beam bulbs.. then just silicone it back together.

Wala! you have a high/low beam headlight in that tiny space. sure it's going to have some space on the sides.. but at least it looks a lot better. I'm getting all the parts from a salvage yard.. so I need to look for a spare set of the black trim.. I'd rather not screw up mine and not have any.

I actually thought of just making some out of fiberglass. Yeah they wouldn't look exactly the same, but it would get the job done.

Hey TZF.. sorry I apparently missed your first post.
I did find the dual element bulbs that you mentioned on sylvanias (sp?) website. Apparently there is a plastic version of these lamp housings what I understood (though I could be easily wrong). I would have attempted taking mine apart but, I am a little apprehensive about tearing into a brand new pair of bulbs (especially at the price they go for).
I do recommend getting a 2nd set of trim bezels if you aren't to set on how you're going to approach making them (I am in the hunt for a drivers side...).
I was able to get the one bezel done finally...



I just trimmed the old one and fit it on the car. Once it was trimmed enough to the right position, I taped it together on the outside w/2" masking tape. I used resin on the other side to 'glue it together. Then made some small sheets of fiberglass on flat alum foil that I could cut to shape and piece in place.
The rest is like doing body work.
I don't know when I'll get the other one made. I've just gotten my new window switches wired into my new console and I still have to get my different hvac controls wired up and vacuum lines attached, etc, etc,... I need to quit getting ideas and starting new crap on top of stuff I'm already doing.
The fact that it's getting cold quick isn't helping either