Auto Detailing and AppearanceTips and tricks on how to make your Third Gen shine! Get opinions on products or how something looks on your Chevrolet Camaro or Pontiac Firebird.
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Just got the wife her own "toy" (a '92 RS) for our local F-body club cruises, & as you can see from the pics below, while the mechanical aspect is good, & the body's nice & straight, the paint is a bit tired.
I initially figured that I'd go over it with some polishing compound to see if I could get the paint to "pop" again, but this morning she came home with a clay bar kit. So now I'm wondering which one would be better to start with...
I suspect that the polishing compound will be a small bit less work, but I'm definitely MUCH more of a "go" than "show" guy, so I don't know a hell of a lot about this stuff. Any suggestions appreciated.
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1989 Trans Am GTA Currently swapping in an L92(VVT-equipped all-aluminum 6.2L) & T56 combo...
A clay bar won't make your paint "pop" at all. A clay bar will take all of the containaments out of your paint....and make your paint super smooth. Which is great....but it won't actually look much different. If I were you, I would clay bar the entire car....then take some compound to it. I would use 3M perfect it III and some 3M swirl make remover.
__________________ 1991 Z28 Camaro~5.7 L98/G92
Air Ride/INTRO Wheels 1999 WS6 Trans Am 30th Anniversary #357
Owner: Shawn Nelson "If you didn't build it with your hands, you can't call it yours"
Just got the wife her own "toy" (a '92 RS) for our local F-body club cruises, & as you can see from the pics below, while the mechanical aspect is good, & the body's nice & straight, the paint is a bit tired.
I initially figured that I'd go over it with some polishing compound to see if I could get the paint to "pop" again, but this morning she came home with a clay bar kit. So now I'm wondering which one would be better to start with...
I suspect that the polishing compound will be a small bit less work, but I'm definitely MUCH more of a "go" than "show" guy, so I don't know a hell of a lot about this stuff. Any suggestions appreciated.
Zaino? The kit is awesome. A friend just detailed out my 89 Vert and I could not believe the finish. I have NEVER seen anything like it.
Zaino comes with a clay bar, swirl remover and polymeric finish enhancers. Up until now, I thought the Meguiars Deep Crystal was most excellent. I never believed the hype about Zaino until I saw it first hand. Kit comes with everything for about $90, and supposedly it lasts for a year.
Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate it. I didn't really want to do both, but I know that the results will be worth it in the end.
And Zaino? Yeah, I've heard that it's good stuff, but it's not in the budget right now - I'm just looking to get the best results I can with the stuff on-hand...
I work at a detail shop, just started this year and am getting pretty good with a buffer, ur correct on the clay bar, i usually only use it on the hood, roof, and trunk, (areas where tree sap and road grime build up) if u feel a grittyness to the paint finish, clay the area, dont over do it or u can make more scratches to get out, than ill take a rougher pad and buff out the scratches with a heavy cut compound, follow that up with a lighter cut, than polish, than wax, that is if the paint is in rough shape, a few tips, dont be afaid to "make some heat" when buffing as thats what gets deeper scratches out, but there is a fine line between correct amound of heat and burning the paint, which if u do burn it, ur screwed and cannot buff that out, the general rule on scratches is, if u can feel them, u wont get them out, but u can make them better. there is really no way to explain how to buff, its kinda a hands on feel thing, but work in small areas and do a "checker board pattern" as in work back and borth than go over it again up and down, dont get overwhelmed looking at the big picture, just work on the small areas and get them good, than move on, on say our hoods id do it in 4 areas, as for products, iv used meguires 3 step compund, (speed cut, ultra cut, polish) but have used the 3m product mentioned above, i mainly use blue corals velvet cut, its a pretty easy compound to start with, not very abrasive and leaves a almost wax like finish, i call its "compound w/ training wheels" but talking to other guys who have detailed far longer than i have love the stuff for finishes that just need a smoothing up. Im sure i have missed some stuff, but there are a few tips there, everybody is different with how they buff and wax, just find what works for u and get it shinny.
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Mods so far: Exterior: L.E.D. 3rd Brake Light Conversion, Clear Corners, Custom Painted Rims, Painted Calipers/Drums, Custom Grille, Silverstar Headlights, 8" Antenna Interior: Grant GT Steering Wheel, White Face Glow Gauges, Pioneer Deck, Pioneer Speakers, 50% Tint Engine: TBI Mods, IAT Resistor, 180* Thermo, Stand-Alone Fan Switch, Accel 8MM Wires, Accel V Groove Plugs, K&N, MagnaFlow Exhaust Trans: Corvette Servo, Energy Suspention Mount Suspention: Energy Suspention Bushings, Wonder Bar, 225/60/15 Rear 215/60/15 Front Fusion HRI Tires
I have a compound called LASER BUFF that starts strong (like a medium cut) and then breaks down into smaller and smaller particles as you buff.
It becomes a fine polish when it's done...pretty cool stuff.
Basically, it's a compound for swirls and light scratches and a polish to bring back the deep shine.
When you're done, I have Muscle Car Wax, which has a light cleaner (but no abrasives) and pure carnauba with an amino-functional resin that bonds the wax to your paint - extending the life of the carnauba wax by making it harder.
Or, you can go with Butter Wet Wax, which is a straight, high-depth wax that offers insane gloss. This wax sells like mad on eBay.
If you enter "3RD-GEN-10" at Macs-Wax.com, you'll get 10% off.
(I hope this isn't spamming. I sell wax as a hobby (I have a full time writing job.) The wife is letting me buy my dream Z28 from my wax sales, so your help will help me get my IROC.)
Tim I will invite you up to the house and you can use some of my Prima products and the new buffer I'm getting next week. Maybe Sheila will cook us a hotdog or something while we scrub away years of oxidation!!
Tim I will invite you up to the house and you can use some of my Prima products and the new buffer I'm getting next week. Maybe Sheila will cook us a hotdog or something while we scrub away years of oxidation!!
Hey Brandon, thanks man, that's excellent! She's pretty stoked about the idea too...
Maladroit, we'll probably be trying some of your stuff once the money tree gets a bit healthier... Thank you for all of the good info guys!
I'm a painter, and a detailer for a small dealership. You need to really know the mil thickness of paint before you do any kind of cutting or heavy polishing. When you clay a car you need to use clean clay, if you drop it on the ground toss it it's done you will never remove all the little things that get in the clay and will scratch the paint even more. when you buff a car(I have tought many people how to buff) stay the hell away from any edges. paint flows out when it is sprayed, it drops anywhere from 1/10 of an inch to 1/8. This means it naturaly pulls away from edges, so your paint is thinner there and your buffer will want to cut harder in these areas because of the pressure being focused in these areas. Next you want to buff on the slowest setting for a while, it is more forgiving. Make sure you are always in control of the buffer, never let it control you. You always have to use one side of the buffing pad to polish, you will get the best quality by attempting to use as much of the pad to buff as possible usually the most you can get is about 1/3 of the pad. Touch your surface every once in a while to make sure you are not over heating the surface, it should be warm but not hot enough to make you pull your hand off. Never buff in the sun where the panel temp is high, this can cause all kinds of problems with clear coat. You can wet sand out your scratches if you want to be daring. Sand paper markes can be buffed out with heavy compound, the paper can not be any heavyer than 1500 grit and I like to tell begginers to use 2500-3000grit. you hold it between your thumb and index finger and your little and ring finger, it is used wet so it needs to be soaked in water for about 20 min before hand, then you hold it right and go back and forth over the scratch like you are waving, this will keep you from localising the sanding marks and going through. you will have to keep the paper wet and dip it in water constantly, you will feel it sort of float on the water and stick to the surface a little when it needs to be dipped back in the water. If you look very closly you will be able to tell if a scratch is through the clear coat, another rule of thumb is if you can drag a fingernail accross a scratch and it catches it is through the clear coat. to give you a better understanding of what you are dealing with, primer is 2-3 mils thick, that is what is on the metal under your paint, next is the base coat it is .5-1 mil thick. this is what gives your car it's color but it is flat and has no gloss, and it is very thin. Your clear coat is what makes your car shiney, it is 5-6 mills thick(about the thickness of a dime from the factory) This surface gets damaged by the sunn and everything else, when you compound or buff you are removing a very small layer of this surface, this is why you do not buff a car often, If you do this once a week in a year there will be no paint left. also clear coat has to maintain it's thickness to have any UV protection from the sun, this is what causes most cars to have to kind of oxidation that has very small almost bubles that pulls away and leaves a blochy spot, the clear is to thin to do any good. Also remember that clear coat is polyurathane aka plastic, just like your plastic dash, if it gets dried out it cracks, so does your paint, regularly doing a light wax once every two weeks prevents this. Also use synthetics especially when using a buffer, that old carnuba crap beaks down under heat, that was great technology in 1970 but we have come a long way since. remember when you buff anything to hit the body of the panel first and stay about 3-4 inches away from the edges, hit those last and just a very little. You also need to learn that your compound is like a coolant use it to prevent over heating the surface, also let it do the work, not the pad. Also different pads do different things, there are cut, mid, and polish pads and different degree of polish pads too. Cut is only for scraches and taking out sanding marks, never whole cars unless you are sanding down a new paint job, these pads need to stay wet enough to make a splatery mess. They also leave a haze that needs to be buffed off. next is a mid pad, this takes off the haze from the cut pad and can be used on light color cars for buffing, these need to stay wet but not a huge mess like a cut pad. the last is the polish pad, this is what you use on the whole car last, you need either a wool pad(makes a hairy mess the first couple of times of use) If you chose to get a foam pad(what I use) make sure it has a crate of eggs, like pattern, this reduces swearl marks. Also with a polish pad try to find a dark colored polish this gets rid of the white mess that you find sometimes. that is about it, good luck.
i use a Mothers clay bar - that way you actually tough every inch of the car and get a good feeling for it. just dont over use it. its not there to strip the paint but i can if you try to rub the heck out of it.
watch out with any type of cutting compound. does it have a clear coat? probably so only get products that do not damage it.
very nice ride, very nice.
I have a few small spots on my Cam which look like concrete. Will a clay bar pull that off the finish? Crazy or Camaroguy, do either of you have a suggestion?
__________________ Check out Camaro Firebird Club Northwest at www.cfcnw.com/. We love our third gens!
ok iv been detailin by hand for a while on my dark blue dodge and which has a better reflecton then blk and my 87 iroc which is light blue and was sittin in oregons weather with no covers for 5yrs which now looks like a pretty new paint job. but the paint doesnt look to bad and i dont in my opinion need polishin compound thats how my iroc use to look like but now i have very little hazy spots exept on the top of the car which might just need polishin coupound there.
ok first wash really well get in EVERY crack there is yes on tires, wheel well, and behind the rim. then dry i like to use sham wows then go over with a large microfiber towel. and use a tire cleaner on of course your tires expecially if some tire shiner is left or if dirty use this many times if needed and use a couple terry cloths. and for the rims i use meguirs all wheel cleaner and get all the dirt off and then use if you like but not nessisary use meguirs gold class rim cleaner this is more of a shinier i dont reconmmend for cleanin alot harder! also for washing i use turtle wax ice car wash. and for washing mitts use a microfiber or chenell or something like that wash mitt for the paint and for the wheel well and tires/rims use a older mitt or a cheaper mitt but not a sponge. for the rim cleaner use terry cloth towells and MAKE SURE TO DRY.
then using your clay bar if it came with a spray quick detailer, perfect if not go get 1 and maybe 2 i use this stuff heavy. then knead the bar well and go over the where any paint is and since its in a lil rough shape go over each sector twice tell its smooth and after each sectore wipe of the detailer with a microfiber cloth. and this isnt necessary but i suggest to grab a bottle of turtle wax liquid clay. i use this on all blk parts and even headlights/taillights and weather stripping, and i love to use on glass but make sure to get completly off.
then get a bottle of Maguire colorx. go over the car with this atleast once maybe twice if you like. then i used a old bottle of turtle wax polish i had and this actually worked GREAT put it on everything other then chrome, tires, and glass it gives a vibrant look. i only put the polish on once but u can twice if your'll like. also make sure to buff decently and if you have a electric buffer GO TO TOWN! a applicator comes with the turtle wax and use a couple tires to wipe off/ buff and use a terry cloth for the maguire and microfiber to take off.
then grab a box of Maguire nxt generation tech wax 2.0
this stuff is great and i highly suggest this and gives a real nice "wet look". apply to all paint and rims then wipe off and make to go over each sector of the car 3 times to make sure all wax is off and to make it seem like buffin isnt a bitc%. then buff decently doesnt have to be great but no crappy pratically wipe over job. then i would add atleast another coat of the wax and if this is going be your last coat buff rlly good dont wimp out on this 1. but if ur oin do another u dont have to go extreme.but if you wanna do a third coat ( this stuff you can use defintly a bit into the double digets ) and since its your last ( dont need to much of it ) make sure to get EVERY spot and buff super good. also i only wax the rims once they are defintly a pain to do but if you like put extra coats on. the wax comes with a applicator pad and use a couple microfiber towels to wipe off and to buff.
and if you decide you wanna detail the engine wash rlly well and BEFORE u wax the paint but wash well get all dirt out and when your done with waxing the paint i suggest to wax under the hood and every painted surface but dont use carnuaba wax THIS MAY MELT since its so close to the engine. um then on any aluminum parts use Maguire mag and alluminum polish. if the engine has no shine or wasnt clean already then use this a couple times. like put a little lump on a terry cloth and then rub it in a couple inch area and rubb tell u get the are of the rag that your using completly black then use another rag to wipe off then do this a couple more times tell it gets down to were the rag doesnt get as black as quick. then with another terrycloth BUFF AWAY! my tpi engine on my iroc was a lil black and had NO shine on the plenum or anything and now theres a decent reflection just from hand and my intake runners have a nice reflection to. then once you get minimal blackness on the rag when buffing it should be good for now but touch up every once and a while. but in the parts where its hard to polish just get them to a minimal shine down take a whole long time on a part where it isnt very noticable. also use armor all ultra shine protectant on the rubber tubes and use a microfiber towel and yes it is still safe to use on interior but i suggest the other way around. also since ur'll going be waxing i would use dawn great for cutting down the grease
also use the meguirs mag and allumum on the rims just once and use it just like you would on the engine but try to get minimal on the tire this takes a while to take off and will have to wait tell your next wash when you use tire cleaner. and use a terry cloth for the rim polish
and if you have scratces still after wax use atleast meguirs scratchX 2.0 use a couple times then use atleast 1 coat of wax over the area you used it on the scratch remover removes wax. also use a microfiber towel for the scratch remover. and for tires if you want a nice blk high gloss shine on them use black magic titanium tire shine gel but if its not going be washed often dont use it will make tires brown if they arnt washed atleast every month. also make sure to leave the tire gel standing up or wrapped in a big towel when it spills it makes a BIG mess. and the tire shine comes with a cheap applicator i suggest buying the eagle one tire shine applicators or something like them they are bigger and not so messy when using. and if you have any chrome use maguirs chrome polish and just use a terry cloth to apply and remove not much is needed.
for interior if you like a long lasting dark shine use armor all ultra shine protectant for all plastic and leather. and for the ultra shine use a older or smaller thread if possible microber towel and make sure the towel is pretty loaded with the ultra shine. and i like to use the spray protectant. and if you have leather in your camaro use atleast armor all leather protectant to just add a little protectin. and for interior glass use a microfiber cloth and use armor all glass cleaner for tinted windows and for non tint windows use windex with a diffrent microfiber towel and use the armor all window cleaner on stereo glass and instrumental. also i like to use armor all cleaning wipes if you have rubber floor mats or on the door sills for a touch up but for the first time use a wet rag with dawn inside the door.
ok here are the accesories your'll need
6 pack of small microfiber towels 5 bucks ( possibly more )
12 pack of terry cloth towels 6 bucks
at least 1 large microfiber towel 7 bucks
a box of shamwows 20 bucks ( if you choice not to buy the sham wows buy atleast another large microfiber towel and make sure u do NOT use the sham wows on windows and just a quick wipe down for chrome.
wheel brush to get behind the rim when when cleaning them and use a big tooth brush like tool that cleans in the smaller area's of the engine/rims and is great to remove the mag and allumum polish when stuck in small places.
for the wheel and tooth brush like tools probaly around 5 or so bucks
for a 2 pack of the tire shine applicators they are only about 2 bucks.
also get atleast 1 5 gallon bucket for washing.
turtle wax ice wash - 7 bucks
turtle wax liquid clay - 10 bucks
maguirls colorX - 10 bucks
turtle wax polish if desired - 15 bucks
maguirs next generation 2.0 tech wax - 20 bucks
dawn - 5 bucks
maguirs mag & allumim polish tin - 8 bucks
maguirs scratchX 2.0 - 6 bucks
armor all ultra shine protectant - 5 bucks
armor all leather protectant ( if desired ) - 8 bucks
armor all cleaning wipes - 4 bucks
armor all window cleaner - 3 bucks
windex - 5 bucks not sure
maguir chrome polish - 5 bucks
prices might be off a bit depending on store and i live i oregon. i suggest to go to diffrent places. walmart, schucks, napa, k-mart, target, fred meyers, and several other places.
ya i know i probaly went overboad but this is still useful data. this is what i suggest and have never had a problem with any of these products
i now all this stuff is expensive but they are still nice to have and these products last quite a while but 1 product i would suggest to get another of the meguirs mag and allumium polish mostly if using on the engine.
well this is all i can think of right now and i hope i helped and i guarante your wife's camaro will look AWESOME! i bet she already gets stares at that third gen expect lots more attention!
i suggest reading this VERY carefully even though it is long it should be VERY HELPFUL for you
WELL GOOD LUCK!!!
srry if i mispelled crap and if i said somethin like meguir meguair or maguire or somethin like that i mean MEGUIAR here is the website http://www.meguiars.com/
also u dont need to wax for 3 monthes and then you only need 1 coat of wax but 2 or 3 is optional and i even wax when i just did about a month and a half ago
Last edited by sapphire irocz; 08-30-2009 at 11:30 AM.
I have a few small spots on my Cam which look like concrete. Will a clay bar pull that off the finish? Crazy or Camaroguy, do either of you have a suggestion?
ya it should take it off but u might need to try a couple times
no it will not if it is concrete it is very abrasive the clay will grab it and use it like sand paper. if it is concrete you need to determine if it is through the paint most of the time it is actually through when it looks like that. any way around it you need a paint pro look at it and fix it. it might have to be resprayed. i personally would use a razor blade to shave off anything above the paint but this is how I remove runs and I have a lot of experience. You run a high risk of damaging the paint but with me I don't care because I'm going to be respraying it most likely anyways. If it is concrete it will not have a mechanical bond it will only be a chemical bond and not a very strong one assuming it was not chemically strong enough to eat away at the clear coat surface. Clear coat is just a thin layer of essentially plastic and can be damaged by chemicals easily. If it is on the surface just with a chemical bond and not damaged the underlying surface then taking a razor blade under the surface between the clear and the concrete should start to loosen that bond very quickly and it will sheet of or flake. This does not happen very often with concrete as it has a Ph of 12 or more usually which makes it caustic and of about the same damaging capacity of ammonia or drain cleaner this is not helped by the exposure time to it's liquid content as it dried on because of the porous nature of clear coat on it's surface. most likely your paint is permanently damaged but if the clear coat was hard enough usually because of sun and age, and the concrete was on the lighter end of the Ph scale, and already partially dry before exposure you might get it off but probably not. Sorry to be a barer of bad news.
IMO avoid any buffer. Nothing beats the old fashion hand waxing! Eventually the buffer will harm your paint job. And you will notice it gradually fading. Plus you have to really be good with that machine too. I just did mine using only the Maguire cleaner wax. Came out pretty good. Theres much more satisfaction knowing u waxed it all by hand!
IMO avoid any buffer. Nothing beats the old fashion hand waxing! Eventually the buffer will harm your paint job. And you will notice it gradually fading. Plus you have to really be good with that machine too. Theres much more satisfaction knowing u waxed it all by hand!
yes and no. a buffer will remove much more surface and leave a smoother nicer surface, but it is not something that needs to be done often. I recommend a orbital buffer for anyone that is not an ace with a high speed. I even use an orbital on a dark color car to avoid swirl marks for sure because it is a little extra insurance. Orbitals are just like hand waxing only faster, and they still require you to remove wax by hand. all wax removes some surface and will eventually wear it through if you do it too much.
IMO avoid any buffer. Nothing beats the old fashion hand waxing! Eventually the buffer will harm your paint job. And you will notice it gradually fading. Plus you have to really be good with that machine too. I just did mine using only the Maguire cleaner wax. Came out pretty good. Theres much more satisfaction knowing u waxed it all by hand!
yes i always done it by hand. 1 because i dont have the money to spend just on a 300 dollar buffer and 2nd because i like to take my time and do it the old fashion way and 3 hell im not going ruin my paint if i mess up!!!
Yeah i do everything by hand too its slower but i know i can't mess it up.I have buffed a car with cheap hand cleaner once.It turned out almost as good as buffing compound but i was selling the car just wanted it to shine fast.
This wax sells like mad on eBay.
