Is a swap to the factory digital guages possible? I don't know if I would do this or not. But I have considered it. My car is a 1987 Trans-AM. I did do a search on this and all I got was 4th gen dash swap information. Has anyone done this. And if so how hard was it?

Hey 87WS6! I can't provide any personal experience or anything, but I did stumble across this website the other day (edit: link removed) The guy did a write up and has some pictures of converting his Bird over to digital dash. Might be of some use to you Good luck! I, for one, would love to see pics of the conversion if you go ahead with it!

-Paul

EDIT: link removed

There was a company called 2001 Technologies that made digital gauge clusters for Trans Ams/Firebirds, they changed their name to Cyberdyne, and then I'm not sure what happened to the company after that, but Summit used to sell them, and there's a guy on Ebay who seems to have bought into a surplus of them, he was selling them at a starting bid of $25. Of course they don't end that low, most complete digital gauge clusters are closer to $600, but it's a place to look.

Mathius

To go along with what Mathius was talking about there is an aftermarket Firebird digital cluster on eBay right now http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33695 but if I understand you correctly 87, you're thinking about the OEM digital dash (which I, personally, love the look of) Anyway, that link I gave you before should shed a little light on conversion to the OEM digital dash.

-Paul

just bid on those on ebay, but a question.

the item says 82-85, then mentions plugging into a wiring harness. Which is it? the electronic guages or the mechanical?

I'm just hoping these would work in my 87 GTA

hmmm......I guess these won't work.

What all is digital on the late model Pontiac guages compared to the early? If I can buy just a separate speedo that would work with these guages and my application, that could be a solution.

Well I can't tell you anything for sure, but I was studying the picture of the components that come with that setup and it appears that one of the things would attach to your speedometer cable and has two wires coming off of it to convert your speedometer signal to electrical impulses? Did you notice that piece as well? (cylindrical item near bottom of the picture) I would guess from that that the speedo imput onto the guages is electric pulses rather than direct cable input which would lead me to believe that a stock VSS could be connected up directly to the speedo? Does that make sense or am I way off base? Take a look at the picture and see if you think that makes sense.

-Paul

yeah I see what you're saying. I just wish somebody would outbid me now

check out the speedo reading as compared to the circular path of the LEDs. I'm betting that thing keeps reading until "199" but stops the circular path at 85.

Anybody want to bid on this thing? I won't outbid you, I promise.

It is my understanding that the 1987 speedometer is digital. It was also my understanding that factory digital guage clusters were only available in 1987-1992. So there shouldn't be any pre-1987 clusters out there. If I am wrong on this someone please let me know.

Thanks for the response guys. I will have to look through all the information you guys linked to.

I do love the look of the OEM digital guages. But an aftermarket setup might be pretty cool as well. I love the look and feel of digital readouts. Much more modern. I have always wondered why on earth in the age of technology that new cars still come with anolog guages and cassette decks. (Especially when you can't buy cassettes at your typical retailer.) If I do decide to go ahead with the swap I will try and get a camera to post pics of the swap and let you guys know whats involved.

BTW http://www.markscustomkits.com has a set of cool digital guages for our cars. The bad news is they are overpriced like most items on the site.

Just wanted to clarify one thing. By digital in that statement do you mean actually digital? because to the best of my knowledge the 1987s had digital as an option but the standard cluster was analog with an electronic speedometer (rather than cable driven) Am I just misunderstanding you, or are you talking about something else?

-Just want to clarify,

-Paul

Hehe, yeah, that's true, overpriced is an UNDERSTATEMENT for that whole site! Awesome stuff though, I love drooling over all his stuff, real nice products!

-Paul

By his statements, he means that the readout on post-86 guages is analog, and the signal is digital. The special "digital dash" package has digital readout and digital signal.

C'mon folks! these Ebay guages are still very low priced and would fit in nicely on ANY 82-85 Firebird/TA!!!! Buy em up before I have to!

That is what I meant. The signal is digital. Not mechanical. I didn't clarify that.

As far as Marks custom kits is concerned he is WAY overpriced. Like his complete interior package is $4500.00!!! That is NutZ. I have priced doing everything but the seats for about $1k-1.5k.

ok, I was pretty sure that was what you meant, just wanted to make sure nobody was mislead by the post Yeah, Mark's is quite $$$$$ but nice stuff to look at nonetheless

-Paul

I wish that someone else had a "whole new interior" kit. I would love to just get everything at once and take a weekend redoing my interior.

Everything would match. Be in "new" quality. Get that showroom interior that I desire.

It is nice to look around on that site though.

If you want a true digital dash, like those in 87-88 GTA's you need the guages, whole wiring harness, all the sensors and other misc stuff.

Dave

so what your saying is, the only compatible aspect of the digital guage swap is the size of the gauge pod? lol. so basicly it's not compatible at all?

I think he's talking about these

and another

I just want to say to STAY AWAY from cyberdyne. I heard that they are making robots called terminators that will take over the world.

I dont know why you would want the digital dash. It's different, but not very functional for a high performance car and weird looking IMO.

wtf? They work don't they!?

I'm just saying you never see digital gauges in a performance car - cadillacs maybe, but all sports cars have analog gauges. But if you like them more power to ya.

I think I'm getting this one:


www.dakotadigital.com

ok.... im very confused, these are all cool gauges. but what im asking is do you need to do any re-wireing to get them to work? i would imagine all the basic gauges should go off the same signal right?

I beleive the sensors are the same, just the plugs to the dash I think are different. Now if you got the stock digital dash for the firebird and you wanted the convience cluster (the second pic of mine) to work properly you will have to get the wiring harness from the doner car because it has resistance matched wires for the headlights and taillights so it can tell that the bulbs are burned out. Now my GTA had a engine fire when I got it and I didn't know this at the time and used a regular trans am wiring harness and now it always says the headlights are burned out. Hope this helps.

so your saying the harness to the main gauge cluster is different?

Well I have never seen the back side of the digital cluster so I am only guessing that the harness needs to either rewired or a whole new one.

does that mean it could be exactly the same?

It could be, but I can check for sure monday via my service manual that is at work now.

link is not work safe....and i just had to click it durring a time when the network is being heavily monitored...thanks

My apologies to you for that. The site that was there when I posted that link over a year ago is apparently no longer there. I will edit my post to inform others of this. Once again, my apologies, but a lot can happen in a year!

-Paul

So the digital clusters were only made from 86-88, right?

Did they change anything in the cluster from 86-88? What years can you put the cluster in? I think they changed stuff in 90, but I'm not sure.

thanks

I'll back up Quadgoat on that website being different than it was last year. Last summer, I bought my parts car from the TGO member that owned that webpage and it was definitely different at the time. I'm pretty sure he has nothing to do with the current content of the page either even though Zalimas is his last name.

Quadgoat,
Could you at least erase the link... It would be a good idea since some of us are at work and I found out the hard way that its p[orn

John

Done: I guess I should have done that a while ago. I thought the warning would be enough to make people at least somewhat cautious and didn't want to delete the link because I thought it was a fluke thing and hoped that his real site would be back up at some point. I guess that was an invalid hope and my sincere apologies to anyone who was offended by or got in trouble from clicking on the link

-Paul

edit: a mod or admin might also want to remove it from camaro of solar's quote of my old post...just to be on the safe side.

Thank you for removing the link.

For you folks that are still wondering about the 86-88 "GTA Digital Dash" swap..

There are three plugs that go into the back of the digital cluster. Two of these plugs control all digital gage panel readouts except for the upper right display, known as the Driver Information Center (DIC). The DIC plug requires additional wiring to cars that were originally equiped with the analog gages. The remaining two digtial dash plugs are physically different from the two plugs that plug into factory analog gages; however, all of the wires are present. Simply aquiring the two digital dash plugs and re-pinning the factory analog wiring harness will have the gages up and running except for the DIC. It is not necessary to install the push-button type HVAC controls.

To get the DIC operating correctly will require a little additional work. DIC operation or running wires to the DIC are not necessary for the rest of the dash to work properly. The 18-pin plug on the back of the DIC will need to be pinned for inputs from several systems. The DIC displays a status on left door ajar, right door ajar, hatch ajar, washer fluid low, coolant low, headlight bulbs, high beam headlight bulbs, park light bulbs, and tail light bulbs. Wires will be needed to run from each of the bulbs for the bulb status system to work. A 1-wire low coolant probe will need to be installed in the radiator and run to the DIC plug. A 1-wire washer fluid switch will need to be installed in the tank and this wire will need to be run to the DIC. Lastly, the factory door ajar switches can be wired to send door ajar signals and hatch ajar signals to the DIC.

Information on these systems:

The DIC requires the low colant sensor to be at 10k ohms and below to give status-ok. At 50k ohms and above, the DIC will alert low coolant.

The washer fluid level switch grounds when it detects low fluid. Other auto manufactures make similar sensors, and these can be used in substitute.

A ground signal from any of the doors/hatch signifies that that particular door is open. Since the factory switches send power to the valet lights when open, a relay must be used to invert the signal for the DIC logic.

Dash Picture...

Plug 1 (called C3 which is white and C1 which is gray)

Plug 2 (called c2)

Plug 3 (DIC)

Note to moderators: Do not delete these tech pictures. This tech data is not available in the TGO archives.

Pinout for Plug 1

Plug 2 Diagram

No problem!

THis would make a cool tech article if not already available.



John

Yes, I would like to turn this into a tech article eventually. My hope is that other folks who have been successful with the swap might chime in with additional information. As far as I know, there are no existing tech articles for the swap.

Are you selling this thing? Is there any difference in the 86-88 digital dash?

thanks

www.nordskogperformance.net has digital gauges also....

PM about buying the digital dash.

I am 99% sure there are no differences between the 86-88 digital dashes. All dashes have a choke light for carb vehicles, which is simply inactive on FI cars.

hey jtmatlock i have a few questions about this setup..... i have it in my car now and want to go to analog.....all of these ground wires for each circut, fuel gauge, oil gauge, and so forth......where do i need to hook them to? or do they need to be grounded at all?

I HAVE DONE A SWAP FROM ANALOG TO DIGITAL IN ONE OF MY GTA,S I CHANGED EVERY SINGLE WIRE IN THE CAR AND I MEAN EVERY WIRE...I HAD A DONOR CAR WITH DASH AND ALL HARNESS WASNT EASY BUT WAS WORTH IT..DONT FORGET ABOUT THE PUSH BUTTON CLIMATE CONTROL..HAD TO CHANGE THAT AND THE HEATER BOX ...OK IT WAS REALLY A PAIN BUT I DID IT AND IT WORKED ..