4th Gen Wiring; Good Progress + Info! - Page 2 - Body - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

dieseldennis · 04-17-2004, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by camaro86vette
your 87 camaro does have a cable speedo... therefor you will need the electric vss which shouldnt be a problem other then putting the speedo gears in which just takes some time. as for the dakota box.. if you are using the 97 gauges from a v-8 car you should not need the box..
how long it takes... cant give you a definate on that as i am just getting ready to put mine in and dont know exactly myself. hope some of this helps ya though

Where can I get an electric vss and where does it go? Straight in the tranny , at the end of my speedo cable near the dash or somewhere else?

Dennis

Is there a brand name for an electric vss that I can use?

3rdGenSS · 04-17-2004, 10:39 PM

you can get an electric vss at autozone.. the dealership... or even a salvage yard. it goes right in where the cable drive is on the tranny. then there is 2 wires that come from it to go to the ecm... you may need a buffer box out of a 3rd gen if you dont have tpi. but that isnt a big deal. as for brand.. i am not sure.. to be honest i might actually have an extra sensor for a 700r4 tranny, but you would have to get the gears from the dealership they are like 3.50 each.. both drive and driven gear . look on autozone.com to see how much a sensor is for a 91 or 92 camaro and you are set.

dieseldennis · 04-17-2004, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by camaro86vette
you can get an electric vss at autozone.. the dealership... or even a salvage yard. it goes right in where the cable drive is on the tranny. then there is 2 wires that come from it to go to the ecm... you may need a buffer box out of a 3rd gen if you dont have tpi. but that isnt a big deal. as for brand.. i am not sure.. to be honest i might actually have an extra sensor for a 700r4 tranny, but you would have to get the gears from the dealership they are like 3.50 each.. both drive and driven gear . look on autozone.com to see how much a sensor is for a 91 or 92 camaro and you are set.

How much do you want for it? Is it hard to put new gears in it? I am still looking for a pic of one but if I need one I need one eh?

Dennis

john5.7 87Iroc · 04-18-2004, 04:54 PM

The gears are pretty easy to install. http://sethirdgen.org/vss.htm Hopefully I will get my dash installed one of these days in my '87 iroc. its only been sitting in my basement for over a year now.

olong_us · 05-04-2004, 08:05 PM

Darn, I just sold a VSS sensor on ebay. I had from the trans i bought for parts on my rebuild. I wondered why it went for so much

KBeez · 05-11-2004, 02:07 PM

TPIroc you're the man!!! This is helpful, I wanna do it someday, but can only imagine when.

And sorry to get off topic, but tpiroc, what steering wheel is that? That is the pimpest steering wheel I've ever seen. I have an aluminum/leather grant signature series, and up until seeing yours it's always been my favorite

tpiroc · 05-11-2004, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KBeez
A: I wanna do it someday, but can only imagine when.

B: what steering wheel is that?

A: Well, just be sure you can have the car parked for a while

B: It's a Grant Evolution GT model 1434. The silver part comes out and you can put different colors in it. They also make some with the metal center portion painted to match (silver, red, etc.). I put the bowtie horn button in

My only complaint is that it's a little smaller than my old grant, but I still love it

As far as the interior goes... man, I've been slacking, but the car just is a low priority right now. I know I may as well button it up because once I get the new engine in I'll be so upset that I have to dink with the interior just to drive it

I'd really like to get some new info up because I love having this as a sticky

nosaint · 05-22-2004, 12:47 PM

Just want to say thanks for you guys paving the way. Im about to do the conversion myself. Had the door panels for a couple of years and now have the dash.

Whats the best info you can offer since its all done?

thanks much

tpiroc · 05-23-2004, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nosaint
Whats the best info you can offer since its all done?

Well, from a prep & environtment standpoint, allow yourself a decent amount of time to exact the installation. Also, having at least one of the doors wide open really helps. It would have been kinda nice to the seats out, but once it came to lining it all up, I spent a ton of time sitting in them. Also, it was helpful to sit in the driver's seat to get a better idea of the dash orientation. As far as putting it in, just remember when you modify something on one side, it will change how it sits on the other, so recheck everything. It's not that hard once you're aware of everything going on. I haven't trimmed the dash top pad yet, or tinkered with the door panels yet, so no tips there (yet

). I'm not sure what else to say besides be triple sure with the wiring, and test as you go, BUT I would be sure that you disconnect the battery whenever you're working on it, then connect it to test.

HTH

85f-bird · 06-12-2004, 05:39 PM

hey, TPIroc ,
I saw the thing on the optical sensor, and also the thought that it didnt' work. HOwever, since i haven't converted to a VSS setup yet, i'm a little curious how i'm going to get the optical sensor to work with the computer, as it used to simply plug into a circuit on the back of my instrument panel. Does anyone have the wiring information on how to make the computer know how fast the car's going so i can still have the benefits of my cruise control and TCC.

5ltrbtr · 06-24-2004, 10:06 PM

I have a 92'RS and am currently looking for a 98-02 Trans-am. I plan on swapping everything. not as in depth as Fatals but from engine to gas tank. What wiring would i need to keep from my car.

FlamedROC · 06-30-2004, 07:53 PM

ok what i dont get about this is on left hand side of each of the wires discribed is "C1-C3" or "C1-C1" and on the 4th gen side theres "D8" and "D4" what do those mean? I would asuume the connector location but they make no sence that way...

Faded · 07-08-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fbirdta878787
ok what i dont get about this is on left hand side of each of the wires discribed is "C1-C3" or "C1-C1" and on the 4th gen side theres "D8" and "D4" what do those mean? I would asuume the connector location but they make no sence that way...

The thirdgens had two harnesses that plugged into the gauges. 4th gens only had one.

FlamedROC · 07-08-2004, 08:43 PM

yea I know that...its just that those numbers dont seem to cordinate with my connector and that diagram...nor with my thirdgen connectors...Are you guys confused on what im talkin about?

Jason

grngryoutmyway · 07-20-2004, 04:19 PM

I'm contemplating this but my car is a DD so time is of the essence. And of course I have a few quick questions.

How much actual cutting of the car and dash was required? Just the few spots that have pictures or is it a pretty much every noook and cranny has to be slightly bent etc.

Also are all the wire colors the same in all 4th gens? If I just have to do a little clipping and then go by a diagram I'm not worried but if its endless wiring it will be a little trying.

As for the console, does any modding have to be done for a auto console?

85f-bird · 07-20-2004, 10:58 PM

i'll be the one stop answer shop for now....cutting on the dash, it's not really that much needed, i used a 4th gen dash frame, however i did remove the HVAC vents from the frame, i'm going to worry about getting the defrost stuff setup for winter time, but that's about all i'm really worreid about. There was some cutting that was done to the bottom of the 4th gen frame however, where it would meet the 3rd gen frame mounts (on the body) besides that it was very straight forward, after a small amount of cutting and bending, new holes were drilled which will allow bolts to pass through those holes. 4 of 5, or ... 3 of 4 of the top plastic bolts line up, and 3/4 or 4/5's of them are more than enough to keep the dash in place w/o to much play.

Wiring is the same for early model 4th gens i believe, the 98+ cars are slightly different apparently, but for the earlier stuff, it should be pretty straight forward, when you get your dash, you'll enjoy having the wiring harness w/ it, as it'll allow you to get an idea as to how much wire you'll actually need, and you can make your cuts in whatever location will suit you best, also destroys the need for cutting, lenghtening, and replicing wires...(save a ton of time). only wiring i see a person having minor trouble w/ is hvac, everything else is near direct as long as you go "this color to this color, etc."

On the center consoel, and auto console will fit, however its no where near as direct a swap as a manual console is. For the auto console. What i did when swapping mine is was.....Bang down the metal brace that mounted the shifter on the transmission tunnel w/ a BIG HAMMER!!! then i relocated the holes for the shifter and placed bolts through holes (very simple) after that, the shifter was cut where needed, (and there was definately some cutting required, the stop at the far forward portion of the shifter was needed to be removed, along with a bunch of "fat" at the sides, (you'll have to look to see exactly what's hitting on your shifter plate and trim accordingly) The shifter plate then needed to be trimmed up some also, (the depth of the plate where the shifter handle actually comes throuh was too deep, as a result it'd hit the shifter, dremel took care of that. I like the shifter indicator, however i disliked the look of the stupid slide bars, i replaced the bars w/ a shifter boot (they look better and eased the instalation) then installed a more modern leather shifter on (from a 4th gen camaro) onto my 3rd gen....the holes for the retaining clip didn't line up, but it's on there so hard, that you won't need them....If you use a 4th gen shifeter you might have better luck, as the 4th gen shifter is a shorter version than the 3rd gen one....this may remove some need of cutting on the shifter plate, but...it's pretty straight forward, just be willing and expecting to do a lot of test fitting....A LOT OF IT!!!!

Also, you can see a pic of my console in a post titled some thing like "Not that anyone cares but... another 4th gen dash" by me....take a search.

85f-bird · 07-20-2004, 11:24 PM

eh, i got ambitious and found it myself.

http://thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthre...t+anyone+cares

grngryoutmyway · 07-21-2004, 02:32 PM

Thanks for answering questions, I've been doing alot of reading up on it and I have seen your post. The dash looks great. I've kinda committed myself to this and have been searching for a dash for awhile. How secure is the dash after you drilled additional holes? And how difficult is a shifter swap?

85f-bird · 07-21-2004, 03:37 PM

just about as secure as it would be in stock form. The drilled holes under the dash are mounting the same location they would in a factory setup, just re-bent a little.

on the top side, all the holes can be used, w/ the exception of the hole furthest on the drivers side....that hole could be used, but it doesnt match the lines of the firewall that the 4th gen has. all in all, it'll barely move, as well as ur 3rd gen dash, possibly better depending on it's condition.

The shifter stuff isn't that big of a deal on the swap, it's just kinda time consuming, andhonestly i think if it wasn't for the wiring, doing an automatic 4th gen console was more work than the 4th gen dash. only IMO. I think the 4th gen shifter would bolt up the same as the 3rd gen one would, the only reason you have to drill new holes in the mounting pad (on the tranny tunnel) is because after bending it, not all 4 holes will screw in correctly...i actually think we were able to get 3 of 4 in w/o trouble, and the 4th one was drilled....after two bolts were in, the thing dind't move an inch, (just how i want it)

grngryoutmyway · 07-22-2004, 01:34 AM

cool, most everything seems pretty easy. Would their be any benefit to using a 4th gen heater core as mine needs replaced too? Do some of the HVAC controls bolt directly to that? And did you just use custom piping to route the air?

3rdGenSS · 07-22-2004, 06:17 AM

the heater core doesnt have anything hooked up to it from the hvac controls.. not sure if it will fit physicaly in the 3rd gen though... as for the air... you can use dryer vent or something similar to custom route it.. i used the 4th gen ducting and modified it to fit the 3rd gen heater box... basically just had to cut an angle on the main opening to match up to the 3rd gen box and then used foam ..(like what is there between the box and the 3rd gen ducting) to fill in any gaps.. everything lines up and directs it the correct way.. ill try to get some pics as mine is out right now while finishing up the wireing for everything...

Stekman · 07-23-2004, 03:42 AM

What does the back of the Camaro cluster look like (93-97)? Specifically, the pigtail connector? I have a 95 T/A cluster and it has what appears to be a single connector. 2 rows, 17 pins per row. Are they the same? If not, does anybody have the pin outs for the 95 T/A?

Faded · 07-23-2004, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grngryoutmyway
cool, most everything seems pretty easy. Would their be any benefit to using a 4th gen heater core as mine needs replaced too? Do some of the HVAC controls bolt directly to that? And did you just use custom piping to route the air?

I did not use any custom piping for mine. I used the 4th gen airbox, but modified it with the 3rd gen airbox.

Both airboxes have 3 inputs. At least my 95 Camaro dash does. One is for vents, one is for defrost, and the other is for floor.

I dremelled down the "lips" of the 4th gen airbox to make it flat, and then dremelled the "lips" from the 3rd gen airbox off and glued it to the 4th gen airbox. The only major difference between the two was that the 4th gen airbox pattern is completely flat, but the 3rd gen one has a 45 degree angle for the main vents.

I really need to take pictures of what I did... I'm sure you guys are scratching your heads as you read this. I'll also post pictures of how I modified my 4th gen selector switch to make the AC work.

grngryoutmyway · 07-24-2004, 12:42 AM

Ok and most important for right now... What parts aside from just the dash shell do I need? aside from the obvious guage cluster, hvac controls etc..

john5.7 87Iroc · 07-24-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by grngryoutmyway
Ok and most important for right now... What parts aside from just the dash shell do I need? aside from the obvious guage cluster, hvac controls etc..

You will need to make sure the metal bar on the back of the dash comes with it. Im talking about the bar/frame thats screwed to the back of the dash and that then screwed in to the car. Sounds like an obvious piece but you'd be surprised at when I was looking for a dash, people were going to sell it seperate or didn't have it. Glad I asked. Might be part of you obvoius, but make sure you get all the vents, guage trim, radio trim, glove box door, a/c ducting if you plan to use it, driver side under dash panel, fuse cover panel. They all sound like they should come with the dash, but again some people wanted to sell them all seperate and when they quoted me a price at first, their definition of a complete dash was just the shell. Again, glad I asked later on what specific pieces would actually be included.

grngryoutmyway · 07-24-2004, 01:41 PM

Cool thats what I was looking for... hopefully I can find one soon I'm gonna check the boneyards here but... its pretty much a lost cause its like the geo metro hell. Does anyone know of a good internet supplier that has them reasonably priced? I've been checking eBay but cant find one with a console as well to save on shipping. I called HAWKS too and they wanted something rediculus.