Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LSX!)
BodyGeneral body information and techniques for repairing, restoring, and modifying your car.
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wow this is a crazy restoration/muscle car. if you don't mind me asking how much money are you putting into this car. i know these cars are easy to get carried away with i think i am but my is definatelly not that clean.
Nomad TA: I am not sure of which black metal pieces you are talking about? Hey, I might learn something here that will keep my T-tops leak free! All we had to remove was the center T-bar and of course all the weather stripping.
If you look at the pic you posted of the TTop bar there is a black metal piece on either side of the center bar that each have 4 Philips head screws in them. I'm assuming that these come loose somehow. Does the whole center portion of the TTops lift out? Mine is at the point your is except the seals are still in place.
Neil that is comign along sooo great! You can really start to feel where it is heading now! My hats off to you guys at Vintage Rest. you are doing a bang up job with alot of complicated custom work - I wish you were closer to me.
Neil start hitting up the magazine editors now for a spread, cause this will definatly be worthy.
Neil start hitting up the magazine editors now for a spread, cause this will definatly be worthy.
__________________ Phil's Car Domain
1985 Z/28 clone - 10 sec. budget 383 project?
1988 GTA - The real deal, no add ons.
1968 Cutlass S - The Red Baron.
Are there not bonding issues with Fiberglass to Polyurethane? Did he use a bonding agent?
I believe 3M makes a product which will bond to PUR... and then FRP will bond to the 3M product. It's hard to tell from the pics... but it looks like he slapped the glass right on the Polyurethane bumper cover.... this may work for structure, but I think if you want to get any kind of a durable finish you will need to use something that bonds to PUR.
I suppose he could let it dry.... then grind the entire fiberglass patch down until it is below the finish level and then apply duramix or equivalent product.. but then he would be better off to have done the fiberglass structuring from the backside.
I am very curious... maybe you can use fiberglass right on polyurethane... I have never actually tried it.
Very sweet project you got going there. I'll be waiting on pictures of the finished project!
*I really want to mintub mine and run 335's all under the stock quarter panels.
__________________ '99 TA 'vert: LS1/A4/2.73's, 11's/315's out back, Borla & SLP lid, my current DD. '91 GTA: LS2/A3/9", 645RWHP, 9.98 @ 135, my old DD. -Jeremy-
wow this is a crazy restoration/muscle car. if you don't mind me asking how much money are you putting into this car. i know these cars are easy to get carried away with i think i am but my is definatelly not that clean.
I've been wondering the same thing. Especially with just the quarters themselves. WithnBirds, there wouldn't be a need to mod the rear bumper, or the taillights, due to the way they fit.
So...How much for just the rear quarters, no bumper mod, tailight mod, or handles?
I've been wondering the same thing. Especially with just the quarters themselves. WithnBirds, there wouldn't be a need to mod the rear bumper, or the taillights, due to the way they fit.
So...How much for just the rear quarters, no bumper mod, tailight mod, or handles?
What is different about a bird that would allow you to widen the rear quarters... and not widen the bumper cover?
We do work nation wide, so if you are intersted let me know. I have at least one car coming from UT and we can probably work out a good deal for you if you are interested.
What is different about a bird that would allow you to widen the rear quarters... and not widen the bumper cover?
The tail lights, don't overlap to the sides. So, the fenders could just be extended from the edges, without moving the lights themselves, at all. It just seems like the bumper itself, would open require pulling the sides out a bit, without modding the whole thing. They are just flexible urethane, after all.
Are there not bonding issues with Fiberglass to Polyurethane? Did he use a bonding agent?
I believe 3M makes a product which will bond to PUR... and then FRP will bond to the 3M product. It's hard to tell from the pics... but it looks like he slapped the glass right on the Polyurethane bumper cover.... this may work for structure, but I think if you want to get any kind of a durable finish you will need to use something that bonds to PUR.
I suppose he could let it dry.... then grind the entire fiberglass patch down until it is below the finish level and then apply duramix or equivalent product.. but then he would be better off to have done the fiberglass structuring from the backside.
I am very curious... maybe you can use fiberglass right on polyurethane... I have never actually tried it.
Thanks for your interest in how we are actually doing the rear bumper, we did do the fiberglass from the rear, you will notice in earlier pictures a riveted steel background to shape the bumper section, then fiberglass and resin over that, this provides a strong backing for building the bumper and for the different ridges, we then created the ridges with dynaglas, a bit of spot putty and primed, this will be extremely strong, durable and will be a very nice finish, Neil checked it out today, so you can ask him how it looked. Again, thanks for your interest, and I hope that gives you a little insight into how we build the bumper, we had about 5 different options we were considering, including plastic welding in a new piece and then skimming the weld. We decided, that while this was certainly not the quickest or least expensive, this was the best way to go for what we were looking for. Our goal on this entire car is to create a one of a kind very well built driver, that can easily be a show car. Neil is sure to get a magazine cover from someone! Nice project Neil, thanks for letting us create your dream!
We do work nation wide, so if you are intersted let me know. I have at least one car coming from UT and we can probably work out a good deal for you if you are interested.
we do hear alot of bad things about it, more specifically about the hump in the drivers side about middle i believe.
just checked out this hood today, didn't notice any hump, is it on the side or where exactly are you talking about. This hood looks to be build very well and just fine as far as fitment.
I guess the question really is do you have any worries of the ‘glass separating/cracking where it meets the urethane? What kind of resin did you use (of course, the rivets or whatever that is holding the steel in there and the steel sure give it something to hold on to ).
The fiberglass mat and resin were ground down as was part of the urethane, we feathered everything in, as far as cracking, sure, if someone seriously tags the rear bumper, it might, but we have tested this out pretty thoroughly and short of a good hit, this will be fine as far as any separation is concerned, we do a lot with fiberglass, Vettes, Cobra (car is coming), other projects--- and have not had a problem with anything we have done cracking or separating from "normal" use. As far as what kind of resin....it's industrial stuff, nasty, gets very hot, you mix the resin with a hardner bonding agent and short of blowing it up, you are pretty good to go.
The tail lights, don't overlap to the sides. So, the fenders could just be extended from the edges, without moving the lights themselves, at all. It just seems like the bumper itself, would open require pulling the sides out a bit, without modding the whole thing. They are just flexible urethane, after all.
you may be right about the tailights, but it would look odd having so much metal out from the lights.
and the bumper would need to widened on either car. it is the entire quarter that was extended, top to bottom, so as to make room for those meats.
Niel correct me if im wrong on the quarter part.
__________________ Phil's Car Domain
1985 Z/28 clone - 10 sec. budget 383 project?
1988 GTA - The real deal, no add ons.
1968 Cutlass S - The Red Baron.
Since there is already a 1" lip at the edges, I was thinking it could just go from that "corner", and out from there, to the wheel well opening.
Since the bumper is basically a flexible plastic, I really don't see why it couldn't see why it couldn't be just "stretched" over to reach the new angle of the outer skin.
Understand what I'm getting at? Dunno if I'm explaining what I mean very well.
Since there is already a 1" lip at the edges, I was thinking it could just go from that "corner", and out from there, to the wheel well opening.
Since the bumper is basically a flexible plastic, I really don't see why it couldn't see why it couldn't be just "stretched" over to reach the new angle of the outer skin.
Understand what I'm getting at? Dunno if I'm explaining what I mean very well.
i dont really understand.
__________________ Phil's Car Domain
1985 Z/28 clone - 10 sec. budget 383 project?
1988 GTA - The real deal, no add ons.
1968 Cutlass S - The Red Baron.
Yeah, I am definitely going to call some magazines and see if they're interested in this project! Hopefully so and if anyone has any connections please let me know cause that would be really cool to get a few pages and perhaps the cover of a magazine???
Anyway, until this project is complete i'll keep posting pics of my car and here a few more of the "widebody" bumper in primer and also photos of the Spohn strut tower mounts and BMR strut tower brace (which is actually the 3-point design). The tabs will be tack welded and i'll send the STB back to BMR to have them powder coat it in silver. They were very cool and worked with me on this, the STB you see in the pic is very similar to the '98-'02 camaro design and I wanted mine to have that same, clean look. So, they modified their jig and fabbed one up for me!
Here are the C6 ZO6 front calipers again with the re-modified hubs (had them turned down so they would fit in the I.D. of the rotor) and 14" rotor. The only thing I will have to do to the calipers now is clearance the mounting "ears" to allow a perfect fit. Right now the ears touch the adapter bracket mounting bolts (the bolts which mount the adapter bracket to the spindle).
Also, I pulled out the rear axle to try and remove the caliper mounting bracket........looks like I have to do this after John paints the car, cause I am going to have to remove a collar which appears to be press fitted on the outer shank of the axle to keep the bearings in place. Then once this is off i'll be able to slide off the caliper mounting bracket and have one re-designed. I am still entertaining the idea of having a simpler adapter bracket made to mount to the exisiting one, but we will see.
theres actually a member on the board that is an editor for super chevy.
maybe youve seen the super chevy project thirdgen. they painted it and put on some suspension upgrades.
__________________ Phil's Car Domain
1985 Z/28 clone - 10 sec. budget 383 project?
1988 GTA - The real deal, no add ons.
1968 Cutlass S - The Red Baron.
Yeah, I am definitely going to call some magazines and see if they're interested in this project! Hopefully so and if anyone has any connections please let me know cause that would be really cool to get a few pages and perhaps the cover of a magazine???
Give CamaroPerformers a call, i always thought they needed more thirdgens
I guess the question really is do you have any worries of the ‘glass separating/cracking where it meets the urethane? What kind of resin did you use (of course, the rivets or whatever that is holding the steel in there and the steel sure give it something to hold on to ).
Bingo. There is no question about the strength of the individual materials... the only question is if you can bond fiberglass to polyurethane. If it doesn't bond, you will see the work show through after your paint is on no matter how carefully it was blended.
There is a post stickied at the top of this page called " Let's take the guesswork out of plastic repair!!!!!!! " which touches on plastic bonding. Fiberglass can be used for structure, but you usually need to apply something like duramix overtop of that to bond to the polyurethane.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time... just trying to let you know about problems I've ran into in the past. I understand you do alot of work with corvettes... but the difference there is that you are applying FRP to FRP which has no bonding issues.
I see Neil has added captions to those pics and he mentions use of epoxy. If you used a 2 part epoxy over the entire surface, that will be fine as duramix and other similar products are essentially epoxy.
Johny, I appreciate your input and if the current method doesn't work we'll definitely take your advice. However, having seen this mod/fabrication in person, I don't forsee any problems, unless I bump into something.
On another note, i'll throw up some pics of the ground effects on the car. Another modification I am thinking of having done is filling in the "vent" on the chin spoiler so i'll have it all smooth like it was on the '87. Suggestions, opinions?
Make them functional! Great idea!!! Now, the question is how?
On the other side of the coin, I think it would look different but good in my opinion. Look at the C5 ZO6 and other sports cars, they seldom, if at all have a vent in the front ground effect. But, making that functional would be worth keeping it open!
Oh, one more question for you guys. Does anyone know or have a way of finding out what the paint code or actual paint name is for the Lemans Blue Metallic which is on the C6 vettes? Can't seem to find it in the paint chip book as Lemans Blue Met.?
keep it open because the cars look really sweet and more modern with the scooped gfx. i dont see any feasible way of making them functional. they are there for styling only. please keep the scoops though
__________________ -Dan
Click sig for Cardomain SOLD: 91 Z28, original paint, 35% tint, 305 TPI, headers, high flow cat, American thunder cat back, shift kit, 3.73 gears, Lakewood adjustable panhard rod, TB cone filter, Superior Axle and Gear Evolution Series axle shafts, Energy Suspension poly trans mount, Jet Fan Switch, 255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512. my video
You'd hafta hook up a "hose", like a 4" or 5 " tubing, kinda like a dryer exhaust vent tube (I think the actual aluminum ducting would get crushed too easily though), then route it to aim towards the back of the rotors. You'd hafta take the back shield off completely, or at least notch it, to the tubing had a place to attach, and air could reach the rotor. Not sure how effective it would really be, at directing air in though. But, I suspect, it wouldn't be very bad.
As for the paint code...Just go to any automotive paint supplier, and ask. For that matter, I bet Vintage has a book of paint codes that would have it.
Worst case...Trot down to a stealership, and check out a C6, looking for the codes. I know for sure, the Service Department could tell you, by talking to the body work part of the shop.
I forged Aeros 18's front and rear 12 in and 9.5 in. custom offset to clear zo6 calipers front and rear
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GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!!!!!
We're making the front air vents FUNCTIONAL to cool the massive Z06 SIX piston, yes I did say six piston, front calipers and 14 in inch drilled rotors.
Last edited by Vintage Rest; 10-18-2006 at 10:45 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Page 2 in this thread...
"Once I get the brakes on, i'll determine the correct backspacing and spoke clearance for a set of i-Forged Aeros: 18x9.5 and 18x12."
Page 9 in this thread...
"Neil is going with 18*12 in the rear and 18*9.5 front, custom offset. I think it was like 7 in the rear and 5 in the front to something close....."
i think it would be easiest to make the vents functional by actually "capping" the end of the scoop, where it opens in the back, and then cutting a hole on the inside, then duct some tubes from that to the brakes. that way everything is hidden, and still funtional and lookin groovy
__________________ Phil's Car Domain
1985 Z/28 clone - 10 sec. budget 383 project?
1988 GTA - The real deal, no add ons.
1968 Cutlass S - The Red Baron.
We're making the front air vents FUNCTIONAL to cool the massive Z06 SIX piston, yes I did say six piston, front calipers and 14 in inch drilled rotors.
That's a really cool idea! I don't think I've ever seen it done on a factory bodied thirdgen before. I agree with the earlier post that you would likely need to fill the back of the vent and direct it 90* through a hole cut in the fender. If you are running 9.5" wheels in the front, you might have to do further fabrication to route your hose to clear those units.
You could add funtional vents in the rear as well... similar to the functional C5 Z06 vents. You would need to weld a 90* elbow into the rocker pannel beneath the GFX and then route a hose from there.
So far the car has been in the body shop for about a month and a half. Til paint is on the car I imagine by the end of next week or next weekend, you should see my car in a dark metallic blue!
As for the motor, I am talking with Racecraft Performance (the company that builds motors for other well known companies) and they have an LS2 402 Lunati rotating assembly w/ JE pistons that I am leaning towards. They are also making an LS2 418 now which is still in the developmental phase, but they should have it ready in 2-3 weeks. So, a 418 in the ole Camaro wouldn't be too shabby!
As for the vents/brake cooling ducts (now that you guys convinced me to keep them), we were thinking of doing exactly what you have mentioned! However, now we are brain storming for what type of duct to graft into the backside of the front spoiler which would connect to the flexible or non-flexible duct. Perhaps a re-shaped piece of PVC pipe with a 2.5" to 3" diameter outlet. What are your opinions/suggestions here?
It should be pretty sweet, I can't wait to see it finished!!!
We will use a door popper system (not sure which one though) and the Corvette C6 switch wired into that system. I would also like to have a button on the inside of the car-door handle to open the door as well.
it seem like the airduct idea is going to be kinda hard to work with, since its kinda crowded and narrow with not much room. btw neil what emblems are u going with??
