Hey all. Ill keep this short since the pics will speak for themselves. I just got the car back yesterday from the tuner. It was "done"...finally... after all my hard work. Absolutely breaks my heart to even look at her now. It doesnt look THAT bad...but in person I think it looks bad enough to be totalled. I just have a feeling they will total it. Basic idea of what happened... I picked the car up from the tuner, was following my gf. At a green light, we started to go, person in front of my gf stopped on a dime. She hit him...never even got to hit her brakes. I never saw brake lights, so i hit her. Not goin very fast...but fast enough I guess. No one was hurt. Hood, fenders, bumper, headlights, fog lights, parking lights, bumper supports, latch support are all trash. The car drives fine. The radiator support may have been tweaked a bit. It tracks perfectly straight, however my steering wheel is now a few degress off to the right. Not sure how that could have happened, since I didnt hit any of the wheels... Maybe something hit the steering and bent it slightly. J.

Dude, Ive been following your build since the beginning... This TOTALLY sucks, but looks very fixable. They wont total it for this much. Thats an awesome car dude, fix it up and get it back on the street asap!

Hey at least no one was hurt... and its still tuned and ready to go!

Man, that's gotta hurt.
Bill

like i just said 5 mins ago on LS1tech...


totally fixable.. dont let the insurance company douche you around....

Find a roller for $500, take the front clip and swap it over, paint. If the radiator support is straight then you're in good shape. And it doesn't look like your doors are hitting the fenders which is good news.

I can see that car being fixed. first thing to do since it is driveable is to check for frame damage. something has happened underneath because the steering wheel / column moved. Once you do that you will know how to proceed. My son (95 Grand Prix) had a simular accident a few weeks ago...totaled ($11,000.00 because of abags) another car but the damage to his car was simular to yours. We spent a day in the J-yard getting parts and swapping them to his car. Insurance wanted $5,000 but we fixed his car PERFECT for $80.00. Of course he had no frame damage and the car drove straight. The next day he drove his car 6 hours back to college. It can be done if you are handy and resourceful.

This sucks so much man. My heart honestly goes out to you because I know you loved this car so much. Good luck with the rebuild and I hope you can still make it up to Laureldale

oh man dude...i feel for ya...i live in jersey, one winter (when i first got the car) i slid on some ice around a turn, ran into a telephone pole....end of that bumper...i finally got a new one about a year and a half later lol...but no, it is fixible, i do agree on that, but i also agree it is a heart breaker...id be very upset too and i just started my project really

Thanks guys for the comments/support. Im feeling alittle better today. Still gonna get sick to the stomach when I get home and have to walk past her though.

As far as the chassis being tweaked, thats still up in the air. The steering wheel is rotated maybe 3 degrees to the right. Not 90 degrees off...and the column hasnt moved. So most likely something in the steering just got wacked or somethin...

Doors still open perfectly. Fender gaps, while not great, are the same as before. The top of the drivers side fender is out just a tad. But I figure thats expected since I just rammed into something.

A lot of folks here and over on tech are saying it looks fixable. Here is the update on the whole situation. Tomorrow morning, Im metting up with a body shop guy. He did a rear clip on my 67 bonneville. And did a darn good job. I trust him. Im going to get an estimate from him just so I have a ballpark figure for talking with the insurance company.

Speaking of the insurance company, my agent is always pretty cool. She told me it will most likely be totalled based on the car and the damage that I described. I then went on to say that I cant just total it because of the amount of money and time and love that I have into the car. She asked if I had it appraised, and I said no. She told me to go get it appraised even though its wrecked. Then, after its appraised get with her and see if the repair estimate will work out.

So I see this going one of a few ways.

1) They fix it as is without appriasal (not likely).

2) They total it, I say screw them, get a donor car and start fixing it myself. Fix the sheet metal and my buddy can paint the panels.

3) The appraisal works out and the insurance company cuts me a check. Then I take it to a shop and let them fix her up.

4) And this one is worst case... The frame/rad support is f'ed up and no one will mess with it. Then its time to find a clean motorless body and start swapping over. That would kill me though...so thats the last last LAST resort.

Thanks again for the comments! Makes me feel alittle better knowing that you guys that have dealt with this kind of damage dont think it looks too bad. Ill definetly keep you all posted...

J.

Wow, that really sucks It's all cosmetic though. Even if they total it, you'll get a check for the value of a basic TA and then you can buy the car back for a couple hundred bucks and fix it yourself. The title will be salvaged, but that only matters if you want to sell the car.

Its mostly cosmetic...but I think the front end shifted alittle. Rad support may have gotten tweaked. Ill find out tomorrow when I untape the hood for the body shop.

I talked to someone today about the whole "total it and buy it back" thing. They told me that they give me the value of the car... then if I want to buy it back, they sell it back for a few hundred less than they gave me. Which to me isnt worth it at all.

But if I can get a check for a few grand, then pay 500 or something to get it back...well thats a no brainer. I guess I gotta talk to my insurance company and see what the deal is with that.

J.

if the insurance wants to total it, dont claim it.
fix it on your own, IMO.

Ya. Nothing says you HAVE to have a claim, and let them fix it, total it, or anything.

****ENSONOFABIATCHEMOUS!!!!! Dude that hurts. But totally fixable and not all that involved when you consider how much you have already done. Look at the bright side when its done the paint will be uber fresh and soooo clean. At least you can gain something good from this.

Aw man, thats a shame!!!! Your car was badass!!! Hopefully its just the hood, fenders and bumper. You put all that work into the motor and everything else... wow. Didnt even get to enjoy it. I for one would be happy to help you scout parts if needed! Hope it works out.

in general the buy back is usually 10% or less than the payout. Most times that's what the scrap yards get them for. So if they give you a check for $5,500 ( just looked up the average retail price ) then you could buy it back for $550.

edit- that $5,500 may not be all that accurate. I just out of curiosity put mine in and it came out to $2,750 for an 88 IROC *shrug*

Actually that's not how it works at all.

First, the total loss is decided based on the software (which all shops use).
The software has all the R&R time data, NADA book values, and average salvage values for the year (assuming software is current).

Normally, you would sit down and just start clicking on what needs to be replaced. If it finishes, you are good, if it pops up with "total loss value exceeded" you note it down, and continue on.

So here is an example. Say the car is worth 5500 NADA (which is the average retail for an '87 trans am). Thats the payee limit.

Now say your damages are $5000.

Salvage value is $1000.

If they total the car, they only pay $4500 in the end.

If they total it, your buyback is whatever the 'salvage value' of the car is.
They don't care who gets it, they just want there 'salvage value'.

Now as far as getting it appraised for a higher amount, you cannot do that in Mass. If you have full coverage on the vehicle it's on the NADA value, unless you get it appraised before hand and pay an extra policy premium for the higher cash amount. I'm surprised the adjuster is even telling you to get it appraised.

Now, I don't know what the salvage value of an '87 trans-am is in PA. I know around here, it's closer to $500, infact I get $200 for 'most' cars, less for some, and not very often higher for others. If they total it, and you get the $5500 i'd do the buyback, and put the parts in another car.

When you buy it back, your title will become salvage, meaning the car is worthless if you fix it. But it looks like you have too much invested to just take the cash.


Oh, btw. Your damage is a liittle more than an estimate I did on a '91 last summer at my buddy's shop. It
stopped me halfway though, and it didn't even tweak both fenders, the hit was mainly on the driver side. Hood, fender, bumper cover, light, marker lamp, fog lamp, crash bar + cusion, R&R on all, refinish time.


-- Joe

Well, Got back from the body shop today. Guy doesnt seem to think its that bad. I still think it will be totaled... But the good news is, I dont think its as bad as I thought.

Chassis horns seem straight. The rad support is bent, but it seems like the metal failed where it wanted to bend, so it didnt pull the rest of the parts along with it. Also, about the wheel being off by a couple degrees. The tuner that had the car shortly before, said that he noticed it was off when trying to back it onto the dyno. So maybe I just never noticed it before. In fact, when I drove it today I wasnt thinking about it and I didnt even notice it. Thats a good sign...

I have some pics...but its hard to really see. The wheel wells looked fine also. Nothing any different than what was there before.









The pics are crappy, but they show how the rad support bowed. My a/c condensor, radiator, and fans are all fine. A/C still works and there are no leaks.

Ill keep ya all updated. Should get a quote back from the body shop by monday. Then Im going to go meet with my insurance agent with some pictures and go over options...see what I can do. Whether I can get it appraised then fixed, or whether they total it and I buy it back, or I just fix it all out of pocket by myself. Im not worried about having a salvage title. Im never selling the car...ever... So if I can get SOMETHING from the ins. company by letting them total it...I might. Swapping the parts to another car is just not an option at this point. I am too attached to this car, and have put wayyyy too much time and work into her to just start over on another car. Ill fix her up...


Thanks again for the feedback! Im sure Ill be on here looking for parts at some point...

Justin

it basically looks like you need a new front clip and thats it. I'd buy it back if they total it and fix it yourself.

Why did the person in front of your GF stop suddenly anyway????

Damn dude, you had like some mad *** hours into that car, I hate to see it like this, don't let them total it fix that damned thing!

The buick century I DD has been totaled by insurance about 6 or 7 times and she's still kickin strong with 229,xxx miles on her!

[quote=1989karr;3436753
Why did the person in front of your GF stop suddenly anyway????[/QUOTE]

Who knows, they were following too close. He will be paying for this misshap for the next 4 years.

-- Joe

Damnit man...I HATE to see this!!! Your car is kickass and it sounds like you are on the right track to getting it fixed. Don't let the insurance co. eff you around. I'm not even sure I would bother making a claim on it.....it really doesn't look too bad. Good luck bro!

Yeah I hate seeing her like this too. Im still trying to decide if I want to tackle it myself, or just wash my hands of it and have a shop take care of it. It still all depends on what the insurance company does for me.

As of now, it doesnt look like my insurance company is going to hassle me too much about it. We've (my family) have had the same insurance agent for like 20 some years. The ONLY things we've claimed were windshields and a couple tow jobs. This is the first accident. From what my agent says the rate wont even change, and they arent going to give me too much trouble as far as cutting me a check for my car. Maybe some people that have a ton of wrecks have trouble with their insurance, but since our record is so clean, its all going really smooth.

Im making some decisions as of now... Fix it myself..have a shop do it. Get a stock hood...or go cowl or ram air. Leave the motor alone...or put a bigger cam in while the front is all apart.

Does anyone have/know of a parts car (trans am) with a nice straight front clip?? Ultimately, Ide like to get a parts car. I have found some of the pieces aftermarket, but Im afriad they will fit poorly. Things like the rad support might not be too bad aftermarket. But fenders and all Ide like to be GM. Ill make it work either way though.

Justin

In case anyone was curious... The insurance adjuster comes to look at the car today...FINALLY. I swear...good thing state farm isnt a fire company. Everyone's house woudl burn down.

So Ill let you all know how it goes. Either way I already have some parts...and after today Ill start tearing her apart to decide how bad it really is, and if I want to fix her or *GULP* get another car to use the body...

J.

typical state farm from my experience (working in a body shop, and family experience)

It's been almost a month, and State Farm is JUST NOW looking at it???


Don't scare me....I'm with State Farm, car & renter's (apartment) insurance!

I'm on the ground floor, 10' from the parking lot. God forbid, I run my car into my patio door!

lose state farm immediatly! that car should have "exotic" car insurance form a place like haggerty. my bro in law has it for his 88 stang. its worked and a head turner but it aint no "show car", they appraised that for 20+k and he pays about $250 a yr to insure it, and thats full coverage.. i will be getting a similar deal when my t/a goes back onto the pavement. depending on a few factors MOST thirdgens could now be eligible for showcar, exotic, or collectable car insurance... places like state farm and geico ect.. wont do right by us "hot rodders"..

Hmm...interesting. Noted... Ill look into that. I WILL be dropping state farm after this and looking into other options. I just cant until I get it taken care of.

As for the time frame...it actually hasnt been a month. I didnt claim it until I had a couple quotes and poked around to see how much I could get parts for. But its still be over 2 weeks...which to me is still too long. My buddy has erie, and they came the day after he called them. And they gave him a time... State farm keeps telling me...well we'll have someone there between 12 and 4... Thats happened twice now, and they had to "re-schedule". So...here it is today at 2...and I havent heard from them. So in two more hours, it will be the third time they bailed. And it will mark the official point where I start getting ticked off...

J.

Well... I may have to take back a few things I said about state farm. Guy really worked with me. Told me flat out there was enough to total it. Then asked me what i needed to fix it. I asked him what the limit for totaling it was. He told me...and I said I needed 500 (deductable) less than that figure. haha. Ended up giving me 3261.91 to fix the car! Thats pretty good considering my estimate was about 1600 for me to fix it...including paint.

So...tonight begins the teardown. I might post a few pics as I go of the damage that i find. Im toying with the idea of having the chassis straighted at a shop... Get it straight, then weld in new rad support pieces. Instead of trying to pull it all straight on my own. Since I have some extra cash to play with.

Ill keep ya updated.

J.

That hurts to see that but looks like you are going to have a little extra $$$$ after the fix.More go fast goodies or stoping goodies.

DO NOT replace the radiator(header) panel unless the car goes on a real deal frame machine.
ive seen horrid things from a lesser shop replacing parts.
besides, unless its a GM radiator support, it aint gonna fit.
keep the one thats already welded in the car and bend it back to shape.
good luck.
nice chunk of cash to work with too.

Hey if your looking for parts theres an F-body junkyard over here in Jersey, its in williamstown great place...they'd have everything your looking for.

If State Farm wanted to total it FOR THAT, State Farm scares me!

It doesn't look NEAR enough to count as a Total. You'll hafta let us know how much rad support it needed, frame straightening, etc

Final cost of repair, compared to their estimate.

Don't look to bad to me,looks like the front clip needs replacing,and the rad.support needs some work but not replacement.Just a guess though,I haven't seen it in person.Good luck bro,Timmy

Hey guys. Well...I have some more pictures that may change some of your minds... The front end is pretty tweaked. I didnt realize how bad it was until I got the bumper cover off. Lots of crap is cracked, bent, warped, and there are a bunch of broken spot welds all over. The part that sucks is that he couldnt NOT adjust for labor costs. He said even though I was fixing it myself, he still had to have labor...which annoyed me.

In any case, I know that the front end has to be fixed with a chassis jig now... There is just too much out of whack for me to fix...I think. My only problem with leaving the parts and getting them pulled, is there is a lot of cracks and weakening of things. Just wouldnt ever be right.

So... Im exploring my options. Gonna get some quotes from frame shops and from some professionals etc... See whats involved. Im starting to think that finding a clean donor car would be much easier and MUCH faster. We'll see.

Thanks for following and for the feedback!

J.



You can see the broken spot welds and how the chassis horn is bent down.




Taco'd...




The bottom center support got pushed down in the middle a couple inches.


One last... you can see how far down the pass. side is drooped.

Thats so sad ><
Hope everything turns for the best man!

They totaled your car, like I said they would over a month ago, because it IS totaled. Take the check, part out the car and build another one. Your lucky he gave you what he did. You got what, $2700 cash AND got to keep the car? feel lucky, pat yourself on the back, and buy another one.

-- Joe

When you've seen as many as I have you don't even have to tear the bumper off anymore to realize the damage. If it was a matter of a bumper cover, hood, and fenders and some blend time that would be one thing. but everyone knows how those cars crumble in the front. Forth gens are worse.

My '95 Firebird that I gave my sister was 'totaled' per say. Kid hit a truck, but didn't have insurance so nobody got paid, and the title wasn't confiscated. I bought the car for $200 off the 17 year old. Cost $1500 in materials (upper aprin, rad support, control arm, bumper, fenders, hood, plastic, 1 light assembly) and thats at MY COST. Retail woulda been about $2200, then $900 in paint materials, about 13 hours on the frame machine + welding, paint time, assembly time, alignment, etc. If 'insurance' appraised it it woulda been about $6800 in work (mostly labor).

I'll NEVER do that again.

-- Joe

FIRST of all...its NOT totaled...technically. INS did not total it. I realize my previous post may have made it sound that way... He told me that the cap for him totalling it was around 3800. So I told him, since he asked, that Ide be happy with 3300. SO...he gave me 3761 for repairs...to fix the car. NOT for the car to be totaled. Minus the deductable and I got a check for 3261. Thats 3261 AFTER the 500 deductable. Thats 3261 in my pocket and the car's title is still clean.

SECOND there is no way Im parting the car out. Ive got WAY too much time and money and custom work into that car to part it out. Unless by part it out you mean use the good stuff in another car. Im currently looking at two options. Fixing it and getting a donor body into which Ill put every since part that I can from my car. So all thats left of my car will pretty much be a shell...which I guess technically I can part out or sell or whatever.

I never claim to be a master mechanic, but I still feel I can fix the car. It all depends on what a shop will charge to do the structural repairs. While I feel I could probably get the front end somewhat straight again, I KNOW that a shop can do it and do it right. Im not that cocky But again, car has a lot of sentimental value to me. And if there is a way to get her back on the road, Ill do it. I have all the parts lined up and im at around 1300... Thats including the parts Ive already bought (hood, head light assemblies, parking lights, bumper supports, hood latch etc) So realistically even if a shop charges me 1000 to pull the front end and fix the chassis issues, I still come out ahead. No idea what repairs to the chassis like this cost...but I intend to get a start on finding out tomorrow. I have all the radiator support parts handy and everything is about 400 bucks all said and done. NOS GM parts... My buddy is going to do the paint for me. And he got together a list of supplies and we landed that around 500.

You are right though...I do feel lucky I got what I did. And honestly, if I find a donor car that is up to my standard and is in my price range, Ill probably do it. On the other hand, Im alittle more skilled than some shade tree DIYer, and Im hard headed. So there is still a chance it will go back together...

Justin

I used to work in a body shop. Tearing down new arrivals, and detaling the finished products after paint. I've seen my share. I still see it as easily fixable. I'm just glad he is repairing it, not junking it.

Stephen, Im going to look into fixing it. But... if I find a clean car for a good price, or if I deem its not worth fixing, then Ill probably use everything off the car and put it into another car. I wont scrap my body though. Im sure SOMEONE will be willing to pay a few bucks for it and deal with the damage and probably make it into a nice car again.

Im all about exploring options right now. A guy in ohio has a real nice car that I might be able to scrape enough money together for. Next week Im going to start driving around to body shops with frame jigs. See what everyone says. go from there.

J.

Exactly why I haven't scrapped my 89 GTA. In reality, with an engine, tranny, and interior (I have some parts) it could be a driver again. The floor is solid, the subframe is straight, etc. Hell, even the outer body is straight. Just missing some "guts"

see thats why i hardly drove my Z28. u get screwed even if its someone elses fault. if only we had to have car insurance for ourselves, rather than liability

Well...even though I didnt cause the initial accident, and even though if the person infront of me didnt hit the car infront of them, I probably wouldnt have hit anyone, its still my fault that I hit the car in front of me. I should have been 5 feet back... or I should have waited 3 more seconds before I started to move...etc etc.

I dont think I got screwed either. I got a check that will MORE than cover me to repair the car. Or get me a big chunk of what another car would cost. So I think the insurance took care of me in that respect.

I did some more surveying on the car today. Im going to try to save her, and I think I can do it. No project on the car has stopped me yet...I dont see this as being any different.

J.