The start of my LED conversions - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

cdoyle · 09-16-2007, 08:30 PM

Well I'm finally doing something with the car again. I've decided to go ahead and start on converting all the exterior lights to LEDs.

A couple weeks ago, I started on the front parking light. Using a dremel I was able to cut open the parking/turn light. I removed the factory diffuser, and then I cut a PC board, to fit the reflector housing.

Once I had the board cut to fit, I then soldered in 70 superflux style LEDs. It was a little tricky getting them all in there, but I was able to do it!

Because the board is closer to the lens, the original diffuser wouldn't work. Plus it made the LEDs look funny anyways. So I took a diffuser from a florescent light, and cut it to fit the housing.

Since I had the lens off, I decided to wet sand it, and polish it. So now it looks like brand new lens.

Here is where I'm at with the parking lights.

Here is a shot of the new lens installed, and how the lens looked before I sanded them and cleaned them.

Here is a closup of the new lens installed

Here is a video of the lights flashing. As soon as I get my LED flasher for these, I'll be able to convert everything to LED. right now I have to leave the bulb in the back otherwise it won't flash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUIfVH-Gj1k
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Now while I'm waiting for the flasher to get here. I decided to start on the tail lights.

These are going to be so much easier, because the tail lights open right up. No cutting, or baking!!

So I cut a PC board to fit the first brake light section.
I also soldered in 2 of the 3 rows per section, that I'm going to do.

I went with 10 superflux LEDs per row this time. The board was just wide enough for this.

Here is a test shot with the LEDs placed behind the lens.

I'm hoping to get the whole brake/tail light done later next week. I'll update as I go.

My goal is to do brake/tail, turn, and reverse lights all in LEDs

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83-84z28 · 09-16-2007, 08:45 PM

Awesome I like!

Stevo · 09-16-2007, 09:11 PM

That is super cool....id love to do this someday. Always admire the new luxury cars with led tail lights. Though i think LEDs will be stardard on all cars soon enough. Along with HID headlights.

Efficiency is the name of the game.

82firebird · 09-16-2007, 10:04 PM

That's just awesome. Very nice work man.

cdoyle · 09-17-2007, 06:25 PM

Got another row of LEDs in place, hoping Thursday or Friday to be able to get the other 6 soldered in and have one section done.

So far so good, I'm pretty happy with how this is turning out.

naterman35 · 09-17-2007, 08:49 PM

Thoose are killer. In my electronics class were learning to solder to boards and de-solder so i hope to do something similar soon.

Stephen · 09-17-2007, 08:56 PM

Looking good. While your at it, do the amber to red lens conversion on the rear light lenses.

Dakaone · 09-18-2007, 02:28 AM

Thats AMAZING!!!!...........U think u can do mines after?????..........lolz

naterman35 · 09-18-2007, 03:16 PM

Wered you buy your leds and your board?

Orinackra · 09-18-2007, 05:34 PM

thats pretty slick, cant wait to see it finished. How are you gonna mount the board, and keep it clean/dry?

cdoyle · 09-18-2007, 05:44 PM

The LEDs are superflux, you get them right from lumileds. They are the same ones used in OEM applications. They are the red/orange ones 70ma, bin 'E' I believe.

The amber ones I used for the parking lights, I went with the ones that Quickar has for .10 each.

The PC boards, I just got at radio shack. I haven't been able to find a better place to get them.

The tail lights, I'm going to epoxy them right to the back of the lens this time I think. I seem to get a better light when they are up close to the lens. For sealing, I might use a bead of silicone or something around the entire lens.

tyrvidar · 09-19-2007, 01:24 PM

Hahha I'm liking it

jstoltz · 09-19-2007, 02:11 PM

what kind of cost are you looking at on doing the tail lights? I am sure they are the most expensive. so I would rather know the most it will cost then the rest will be less. looks great keep up the great work.

freestylzz · 09-19-2007, 03:19 PM

Hey man I gotta hand it to you I thought it would be a stupid idea but your work looks pretty good.

BUT, not to mention the costs associated with putting soo many LEDs in place, with that many LEDs people would see you from 10 miles away, not to mention you'd probably end up blinding everyone who comes up on your brake lights

92RS(real slow) · 09-19-2007, 04:43 PM

damn that looks badass

cdoyle · 09-19-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freestylzz

Hey man I gotta hand it to you I thought it would be a stupid idea but your work looks pretty good.

BUT, not to mention the costs associated with putting soo many LEDs in place, with that many LEDs people would see you from 10 miles away, not to mention you'd probably end up blinding everyone who comes up on your brake lights

One thing you got to remember is that the reason OEM doesn't use so many LEDs is because they have special reflectors and housings made for LEDs. We don't have anything like that, so we need to increase the number of LEDs to get the proper light output.

I did a similar retro on my 04 4Runner. The tail lights have 40 LEDS each, and the bumper lights have 20 each. They turned out great, and are just right.

Plus if for some reason, these come out too bright. I can just limit the current down with the current limiting resistor to dim them.

Cost wise, this isn't going to cost too much. I think for this conversion it will cost about 100 for the boards, and LEDs, the rest is just time really (I got a deal on 600 red/orange superflux's, that's how it's only going to cost that much. If I didn't get the deal, it would be a lot more) not too bad for something totally custom tail light that'll I'll be pretty darn sure I wouldn't see anyone else around here with it. Especially on an 3rd gen Camaro

Friday I should have this section done. Then I'll start on the turn signal.

cdoyle · 09-19-2007, 06:30 PM

oh, the red/orange superflux LEDs from Lumileds are normally about .35-.40 each. I think I got them for about .10 each.

jstoltz · 09-19-2007, 06:40 PM

what website did you get them from I could find them on the Phillips website but nowhere did I see anyplace to buy them.
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also which boards do you get from radio shack (part #'s if you can) I have never done this so I may have more questions if you don't mind. I like this idea so I can use blackouts not trying to copy or anything.

cdoyle · 09-20-2007, 01:09 AM

http://www.componentsuperstore.com/s...IGHTING4612651
Is an authorized dealer of superflux, they might be out of the ones I got tho.

I got mine from a guy on
www.HIDPLANET.com

I don't want to say who, because he might not be selling them right now. Just search the LED forum, and the classifieds.

For the amber ones, I just went with the ones at Quickar, .10 each for 70ma superflux 'style' not true superflux but close enough.

The radio shack board I normally use is this one.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

I then usually trim it to fit whatever application I need. I wish I could find longer ones tho, the parking light I did, I had to cut, and piece 2 boards into one. takes more time doing that

Here is a great LED calculator for determining what resistors to use.
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz

Now remember if you do a brake/tail or a turn/parking light. You'll have to use a couple diodes to isolate the 2 inputs from each other.

jstoltz · 09-20-2007, 08:15 AM

definitely looks like I will be doing some reading and alot of practicing for this. Thanks for the links

Firebat · 09-20-2007, 08:38 AM

Looks awesome.

cdoyle · 09-20-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstoltz

definitely looks like I will be doing some reading and alot of practicing for this. Thanks for the links

If you need any help, just let me know.

Also, HIDPlanet has a ton of info too. That's where I learned all about these type of retros

cdoyle · 09-21-2007, 09:32 PM

Didn't have as much time as I hoped to work on this, but did get another 3 rows lit up.

Here is just tail light function, it's a little too bright so I'm going to use a different size resistor to dim it some more.

And here is brake function, this is looking really good! I wish the camera took better pics of it.

Frozer!!! · 09-21-2007, 10:27 PM

Looking really nice. Cant say I approve of the radio shack purchase though lol j/k. Keep on the updates

cdoyle · 09-21-2007, 10:37 PM

Believe me, I've been trying to find boards online at a good price, but haven't been able to find anything.

It's driving me crazy having to go there all the time to get PC boards.

Frozer!!! · 09-21-2007, 10:49 PM

lol, then they ask if you want any batteries with that PCB.

Stephen · 09-21-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozer!!!

lol, then they ask if you want any batteries with that PCB.

You should ask them, "What size batteries do these take?

How do you get the LEDs to have 2 different levels of light between tail & brake? Do the LEDs have 3 leads? Or do you use just additional rows for the brakes?

I've thought about doing that, for my 3rd brake light. Don't wanna tear apart my GTA lighgts, to do the LED conversion.

HotRodLarry · 09-21-2007, 10:58 PM

I was thinking that the taillights on a 3rd gen would look bad *** like that. Good job man.

cdoyle · 09-22-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozer!!!

lol, then they ask if you want any batteries with that PCB.

No they don't ask about batteries, but how many times do you think it will take for them to understand.......

No I don't want to upgrade my phone!!

geeze, the same guy asks me that every time I walk in there!!!

cdoyle · 09-22-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

You should ask them, "What size batteries do these take?

How do you get the LEDs to have 2 different levels of light between tail & brake? Do the LEDs have 3 leads? Or do you use just additional rows for the brakes?

I've thought about doing that, for my 3rd brake light. Don't wanna tear apart my GTA lighgts, to do the LED conversion.

You use the same LEDs for both, what you do is use some diodes on both the tail light line, and the brake line to isolate each from each other. On the tail light line, you have an additional resistor to limit the current and make them dimmer. But when you hit the brakes, that line doesn't have the resistor so you get full brightness. The diodes protect from feedback into each other.

I used to have a diagram, that shown exactly how to do it. But now I can't find it.

85_ZED28 · 09-22-2007, 01:55 PM

Check out futurlec for some really cheap boards:

http://futurlec.com/ProtoBoards.shtml

Cool project

compuwiz1937 · 09-22-2007, 05:11 PM

That looks really good, what are you doing to do for the curved part of the taillight?

fenton06 · 09-23-2007, 01:14 AM

If you could post the wiring diagram for the tailights and the marker lights that would be killer!

Also, I looked around and found a place to get these LED's, and am curious why you didn't opt to get the red LED's, because they also have a wider viewing angle.

Here is the site I was looking at:http://www.ledcar.com/products_led.html

cdoyle · 09-23-2007, 04:30 AM

From what I've been reading over at HIDPlanet, all the people that do these retros prefer the Red/orange because it has a higher lumens output. Plus it's the same LEDs that OEM manufactures use in their tail lights.

I have the RED in my 4Runner and I have to agree that the red/orange are brighter. And you can't even see any orange in them through the lens.

dr1 · 09-23-2007, 07:44 AM

I guess ill be the one to say something stupid then, but I thought you couldnt dim LEDs? ie, i thought they were just on or off

85_ZED28 · 09-23-2007, 08:42 AM

You can dim LEDs. Maybe you're thinking of fluorescent bulbs?

cdoyle · 09-23-2007, 09:42 AM

The only way to dim the LEDs is by using a current limiting resistor.

oh,
There is another way to make the LEDs 'appear' to be dimmer. It's by using pulse width modulation. How that works is, the LEDS are always on full brightness, but the PWM turns them on/off over and over again really fast. So as you change the frequency the LEDs appear to be brighter.

A lot of the guys over at HIDPlanet do it this way, but I've always had good luck with just designing my circuits with a slight higher then normal source voltage to compensate for any voltage spikes. For me it simplifies the circuit, and one less thing to have to worry about failing later.

cdoyle · 09-23-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenton06

If you could post the wiring diagram for the tailights and the marker lights that would be killer!

Also, I looked around and found a place to get these LED's, and am curious why you didn't opt to get the red LED's, because they also have a wider viewing angle.

Here is the site I was looking at:http://www.ledcar.com/products_led.html

If you're going to do a 3rd gen tail lights, you're going to need a ton of LEDs. So it's actually cheaper buying them right from Lumileds. Unless you can find someone who will sell them too you for cheaper (like I did). If I remember right, the place I linked to earlier sells them for about .43 each in tubes of 60.

If I can't find that diagram that I had, I'll make another one. Might take a couple days, since I won't be home much this weekend.

naterman35 · 09-23-2007, 11:15 AM

Well if you get it send it my way... I need a good electronics project to do in school this year.

cdoyle · 09-23-2007, 12:32 PM

Sure,

If I can't find it, I'll try and draw one

Orinackra · 09-23-2007, 01:10 PM

you've actually inspired me. I decided that I'm gonna put some leds inside my mirror housing so that the outer corners of the gap light up with the turn signals. I saw something like that on ls1tech, looked kinda cool.

compuwiz1937 · 09-23-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinackra

you've actually inspired me. I decided that I'm gonna put some leds inside my mirror housing so that the outer corners of the gap light up with the turn signals. I saw something like that on ls1tech, looked kinda cool.

Don't waste your time and money. I tried it and the LEDs aren't near bright enough to shine through the mirror glass, that's why the GM trucks that have them stock have "holes" in the reflective coating.

tourville · 09-23-2007, 03:27 PM

looks awesome! subscribe =D

naterman35 · 09-23-2007, 04:04 PM

I believe he meant the gap between the housing and glass. I think. Maybe im wrong.

dr1 · 09-24-2007, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoyle

The only way to dim the LEDs is by using a current limiting resistor.

oh,
There is another way to make the LEDs 'appear' to be dimmer. It's by using pulse width modulation. How that works is, the LEDS are always on full brightness, but the PWM turns them on/off over and over again really fast. So as you change the frequency the LEDs appear to be brighter.

A lot of the guys over at HIDPlanet do it this way, but I've always had good luck with just designing my circuits with a slight higher then normal source voltage to compensate for any voltage spikes. For me it simplifies the circuit, and one less thing to have to worry about failing later.

well damn.. learn something new all the time, this information could come in handy for some of my own projects, thanks :P

mrws6speed · 09-24-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoyle

The only way to dim the LEDs is by using a current limiting resistor.

oh,
There is another way to make the LEDs 'appear' to be dimmer. It's by using pulse width modulation. How that works is, the LEDS are always on full brightness, but the PWM turns them on/off over and over again really fast. So as you change the frequency the LEDs appear to be brighter.

A lot of the guys over at HIDPlanet do it this way, but I've always had good luck with just designing my circuits with a slight higher then normal source voltage to compensate for any voltage spikes. For me it simplifies the circuit, and one less thing to have to worry about failing later.

I wonder if there is a PWM circuit that could be used from one of the newer cars and adapted to run the new custom board w/ LED's?

Or maybe Dakota Digital or another company is making that circuit? There are quite a few companies making LED lights now for hot rods. I'll be at the SEMA show here in about a month and I'll keep my eyes peeled.

cdoyle · 09-24-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinackra

you've actually inspired me. I decided that I'm gonna put some leds inside my mirror housing so that the outer corners of the gap light up with the turn signals. I saw something like that on ls1tech, looked kinda cool.

I've actually thinking about doing something like this too. I have some extra mirror housings in the garage, and later on I might experiment a little with them.

cdoyle · 09-24-2007, 10:28 PM

OK,
got the brake light section done.

Here is tail light mode. I still need to trim the board a little more, to allow me to move the board around some, and get it to align with the lens better. You can see in this mode, that some appear darker then others. It's just because of the lens.

And here is brake mode.

Next I'm moving on to the turn signal, and then start on the wrap around section. Then finally the reverse lights.

Neil · 09-24-2007, 10:54 PM

This looks really good, fantastic work! I can't wait to see your reverse LED's, it will probably be the equivalent of looking into a welder's arc, lol.

cdoyle · 09-24-2007, 10:56 PM

lol,
Ya there will be no doubt I'm 'backing up' watch out!!