im thinking about buying this camaro, but in this picture the hood appears to missmatch the nose. could this be frame damage? what other explenations coul their be?

See were the paints messed up on the tip of the nose, that meens they hit something. Doubtfully frame damage for the right price id snatch it up and tinker with it. Or the nose is just sagging and warped

i think im might.im working on it at least. its a 1984 5.0L z28 5 speed and browns a rare color. only 68,000 original miles there is minor rust on the door and front right fender as you can see in the pic. thats about the only rust on it i think. im going to make sure the under sides nearly rust free before i decided but the interior is almost perfect condition with a few expections. im not sure if its original or not but it appears to be. i negotiated the seller down to $2000. do you think thats a fair price or is it to good to be true? ill add more pics.

That looks like a pretty good deal for $2k.
Its definitely been hit in the nose but if you losen up the bolts for the nose alot of times you can adjust it enough to make it fit.

id buy it if i were you. however, NOBODY drives a brown car lol. but a tpi 305 for 2k is a good enough for me. to tell you the truth, i would be more concerned about the frame sideways, i.e. how straight the chassis is, than some past front end damage, if any. then again, it could just be the fact that if the body were repainted, the hood and bumper were painted at different times, like maybe some of the metallic flakes in the sprayer gun hopper may have settled, etc.

An 84 is not TPI.

im trying but im short about $500 . And i know nobody drives a brown camaro. thats why it appeals to me. have you ever seen another brown camaro? i would guess not. and im pretty sure its original paint and only about 8000 brown camaros were made in 84. cars had carbs. in '84 by the way. and straitness really isnt an issue for me. my friend knows somebody with a frame straightener so i can get it done for cheap or maybe free. im just worried about the front being cruched in. my freind has a mustang that was hit in the front and its now about 4 inches shorter than its supposed to be.

That dosent look like frame damage at all. that mis-alignment or "Gap" is really common with camaro's. both my 86 IROC and my 90 RS had it. Loosening the bolts and adjusting it may fix most of the problem. I have seen lots of brown camaro's, but I also live in AZ, where these cars last forever.

thats what i was thinking too, but then i started getting worried. i guess ill look for bent metal under the hood when i go to check it out. the only colors around here are like, white and blue and i have NEVER seen another brown third gen. even on google images when i searched for them. i really hope everything checks out on the car and the deal goes well.

You don't have a frame, you have subframes. It's a unibody car. You have a subframe in the front that starts somewhere around the transmission tail and goes up to the front bumper, and then you have another that starts somewhere around the rear wheels to the back bumper. That's why subframe connectors are recommended for these vehicles. They tie the two subframes together to give you something close to an actual frame.

A real "frame" would be detachable from the vehicle as one solid piece. The older subframes were detachable on the 2nd gens by some bolts, but I believe the third gen ones were welded.

That car may or may not have subframe damage, but you're not gonna tell by that little gap between the hood and the fascia.

It's more likely like other posters said that the hood needs adjusted. There are little rubber bumpers that screw into the radiator support that the hood rests on. Someone probably messed with those not realizing what they were for and backed them out some.

You can definitely find a third gen cheaper than $2k. Especially in this economic climate. Don't feel bad if you can't find the other $500 right now. Just keep looking. I'm not saying that's a bad deal either. I wouldn't make a call like that without seeing th car first.

Mathius

yeah i know its a unibody with a subframe but i got my point across right?

im hoping that rubber stopper thing is all that it is.

i probably could find one cheaper if i waited awhile, but pickings are pretty slim here in cinci and im pretty picky about what i want in my third gen. perferably a z28 5 speed with t-tops. this doesnt have t-tops, but i can just swap some in later and i enjoy doing things like that so this is pretty much like my dream car. haha.

Do you know how much time, work, and effort is involved in putting t-tops on a car? There's a thread about it somewhere here. It's right up there with putting a new quarter panel on for difficulty. You can ruin your whole car if you don't know what you're doing and a shop is going to charge you thousands of dollars.

You're better off waiting. It'd be way easier to swap a 5 speed into another car than to try to "just swap" some t-tops in later.

I don't think you realize what you're getting into.

Mathius

I agree (on how difficult it would be to add t-tops)--not something you want to tackle.
Bottom line the car looks like a pretty good buy for the money. If youve got to have t-tops then wait and cross your fingers you come across another one in as good condition, with t-tops and in your budget. Personally I would buy it.

ive looked at the thread. ive private messaged the person who did it. i think with guidance i could take care of it just fine. do you realize that it was done in just 2 days? he had a professional welder weld it. i would too. im not so sure its as difficult as it seems. unless youve actually ever tried it yourself, i dismiss your opinion as invalid. and i wasnt asking about what you though of my ideas. if i mess up my car, then i mess it up. its my right to mess it up. all i wanted to know was if the car looked damaged and if you though it seems like a good buy. thanks for your concern. now

if the dash emblem is correct, and that really is a High Output 305 with a 5 speed, I'd be all over it. That would be a fun car, the L69 is a bad little motor!

it is indeed a full blown z28! im basically in love with this car. but the guy whos selling it is so slow at replying by email and ive given him my phone # twice and he wont freaking call me. its really starting to piss me off and ive tried to ask him to meet me to see it twice and he just ignores it and says something else. if this guy is just messing with me he is in for a world of pain.

OOOOOO WHAT U GONNA DO BROTHER!!!! (IN HULK HOGAN VOICE)

Mathius is just informing you about some of the basics about our vehicles and trying to help you make informed decisions. I don't see where you get off giving him the attidute you did. You referred to the frame and to just swapping in some t-tops later all after seeing a misaligned hood and thinking it meant major damage. He was doing exactly what it seemed you were looking for, offering information and guidance.

Do you really only want people to only tell you what you want to hear? OK... great buy, no damage, t-top installs are easy, brown camaros are indeed rare and they are awesome! happy now?

probably nothing. lol.

i didnt say i thought it was frame damage. i was wondering if it could mean frame damage. and what i want to hear is information about these cars through the questions i ask, not critisism for what i want to try and do to a car as mathius did.

Well then the point we disagree on is that I don't think he was criticising your plans. I don't think he called you an idiot or said that wanting t-tops was a terrible thing. It's just that a lot of people that are new on this board have the misconception that swapping a hard top to t-tops is no big deal without understanding what it really takes... and it would suck if someone bought a car with this idea in mind just to find out too late that they were in over their head.

all i said was that i was going to swap in t-tops later. i didnt say how many hours of research i was going to do, how much planning i was going to put into it, who may be helping me such as an auto body expert. to assume i was just going to jump into it without anything like that...well thats just plain stupid.

On the subject of brown TA's. When my nephew got his first car he pick up a 79 that was brown and when it came time to restore it he wanted it to be brown again. It was his choice and I kind of liked it after I painted it. He had the only brown TA at Car Craft Nats in MN. ( over 4500 cars ) It is unique and we call it fuddgy!

thats cool steve. i plan on keeping mine brown too(if i get it). i think it would be cool to have what is, as far as i know, the only brown camaro in cincinnati! its exciting to be able to own something so unique and rare. theres not a doubt in my mind that it will bring some bad comments from people. but then ill just light them up and leave them in the dust with the other haters

You sir, have no idea what you're getting into. It may have taken him two days to physically swap the roof, but that didn't include the time it took to finish and repaint everything and swapping the windshield in and out. Oh, btw... even glass installers will tell you that you have about a 50/50 chance of the glass breaking when you remove it from a car that old. So then you can add that price into your roof swap. Not to mention his interior was already gutted. Then you have to re-weatherstrip the whole thing. When I did the weatherstripping on my camaro it was $200 just for the t-top area weatherstripping. Not to mention getting a new t-top style headliner.

It's nowhere near "easy", and it is exactly as difficult as it seems..

It took me 3 days just to do a factory floor pan swap by myself. I am a certified welder and I've been fabricating for at least 6 years now. The guy who did the t-top swap had a fabricator helping him and it took 2 days with both of them working on it just to do the roof swap.

You obviously have neither experience fabricating or welding if you think this is an easy swap.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper, and easier to just wait and find a car that is what you want. It's easier and cheaper to swap a manual tranny in than to do a roof swap like that, unless you know someone that's going to do all the work for you for free.

But go ahead and do whatever the hell you want. I don't even know why you asked about the car if you don't want to listen to what anyone is trying to tell you. I won't be the one who has to drive a twisted piece of junk or a roofless third gen when you find out how hard it really is.

Mathius

i am listening to what people tell me. your jumping on me for sh!t this thread wasn't even supposed to be about. but thanks for understanding bro!

I can feel the heat from this thread all the way over in the v6 section

that made me lol

they made 8000 brown camaros in 84? thats a HUGE AMOUNT. crap they only made a TOTAL of 3500 trans ams, i think, in 91. dude thats not rare at all. i have one of 200 81 nascar pace cars made for canada. thats rare.
good price for a h.o. 5 speed camaro. doors are junk. i hate rust.
i have heard guys having problems lining up the hood and bumper after rebuild.
to put t tops in a $2000 car is crazy. cost would be insane.
you could get a mint rust free ttop car for $3000.
for a first fun standard car why not. just enjoy it and save up for your dream car later.

A/C delete.

You started the thread to find out if this car was a good buy because you were concerned about the gap in the front of the hood which you thought might be frame damage. (which just goes to show your inexperience right there, because that's a HUGE leap in logic).

I am telling you this car is not a good investment for you because you are set on a t-top car.

My post is very much on topic.

Go back to school and work on your reading and comprehension skills.

I have tried to help you. Others have tried to help you. You think you know better.

I am done with this thread.

Mathius

His add says 82000 miles. still not that much if it's true.

if i need someone telling me what do to, Ill go to my as*hole dad. just because i want to put a t-top on my car im like, some kind of satans spawn or something? i dont know why your so sensetive about it. im actually in school right now. hows it feel to be arguing with an 18 year old? i bet it feels good man. im not saying i know better. do you see me arguing with other people? no. just some guy who thinks he knows whats best for me just from some posts on a message board. id hate to see how your kids turned out. bye bye.

yeah. i didnt remeber exactly. im very excited becuse he finally emailed me back and we are meeting tomorrow or friday! i finally get to see this baby in person. its going to blow my mind. ive never even ridden in a 3rd gen. before but about 3 years ago i discovered them and they have been my favorite car ever since. specifically the years 84, 89, and 91. dont ask me why because im not really sure. lol.

well the thing is, their were only 2 more years for the brown color and the total number of them is only about 10,000 so thats less than 1000 a year. also, this is just for a color. not a "specialty" car.

everything else does make sence. except for finding a mint t-top car for $3000. look at cinci's craigslist and search "camaro" everything has 150K miles and is at least $3000 with rust.

cincinati's craigslist isn't the extent of all 3rd gens for sale in your area. T-top cars aren't generally much more expensive than hard top cars. And they only painted Camaros brown for 2 more years because they were unpopular and went out of style. It's no wonder you're so argumentative being the 18 year old son of an as*hole as you put it. He offered additional information that he thought would be useful to you and you took it as an insult to your intellegence. Grow up a little. You came here because you are looking for help and information from people that are more knowledgable about these cars than you are at this time. Don't spit in their faces when they do try to help.

He was right that you didn't know what you'd be getting into because your further explaination made it clear that you still think the roof swap is easier than it is. As I said before, it's very logical and simply nice of him to share some more information on what the swap requires before you decide if you want to purchase the car or not. But you're 18 and you're falling in love with the car, finding reasons why its brown color is actually a good thing. So go ahead, buy the car, enjoy the hell out of it. But when something breaks on it, come back here with a better attitude if you expect much help.

i know thats why they didnt make it that many years, because it was unpopular.
thats why i like it. i think its much better than just having a plain jane white, red, black, or blue camaro.

ok, everybody just forget about the roof swap, its a pretty damn retarded idea apparently so my bad.

It's not a retarded idea but there is alot of work involved in doing it I am very experienced in working on cars and I would not tackle that job without a lot of money and time because it will take alot of both but it can be done on the bright side . Personally I would take the whole top off at the seams and replace it with one from a junkyard don the same way and do what body work is needed and repaint it so it really looks original .

thats what i was planning on doing, unless you mean find a thirdgen that has been converted to t-tops and use that top again.

I have a couple of years on you so..... Never talk a guy down unless you are there in person. Never tell them it is your dream car. Point out everything wrong and take you a$$hole dad with you, one day you will realize how smart he is.

BURNED...haha

well i just got back from meeting him in person. got him down $200 more so now im at $1800.

well i would but my dad wont go with me because he doesnt give a crap and he just wants to sit at home and drink. pretty much my whole family and everyone that knows him agrees hes an alchoholic d!ck who hates everyone because he thinks his life sucks and it doesnt. all he cares about is money. dont tell me about my life buddy, you dont even know me.

Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't. Let's face it, there are plenty of idiots in this country and more than a few of them have children.

and there was no "burn" in what he said!

That is it get an original t-top or a converted to t-top car if it is done right and use the top . I know you checked out the thread the guy made on doing this so follow his addvice or get his help by phone or pm to do the job right and you will have a nice finished product .

I find it interesting that you are excited about purchasing a Camaro with a rare color but then want to chop the roof off in place of a t-top. Defeats the purpose of rarity in my opinion. I know there are probably some brown Camaros that came with t-tops but you could easily find a t top car of the same year paint it brown and purchase all the interior dirt cheap (because many don't want that color) and still be less work than what you are wanting to do.

Maybe someone on this board could direct him to the thread I remember seening about converting a hard top to t-top that didn't require cutting the whole roof off and replacing it with a t-top one

I was just thinking that same thing. i will probably keep it the same. all im saying is that if i ever do want to make it a t-top, i will do it.

I think that when most people go "bucks up" on a restoration they usually want a color that is more timeless or classic and go with a red or black. My nephews cars does look cool in it's heritage brown met with the hood bird and graphics that go with the color. Good luck on your purchase!

Dude , you like the car get it if you can and if later on you want to do t-tops do it with good help and you should have a nice brown 84 z-28 manual car to ride in . As for the frame it is either the hood stops or the nose needs adjustting either way you should buy the car and enjoy !

thats exactly what i was thinking.