can anyone confirm if the 4th gen guages will work in a 3rd gen car. if so what is involved in the wireing without having to upgrade the computer. i know that there was atleast 1 guy who's changed the actual dash (not just the console), but he hasn't hooked up the gauges yet (i don't think he has a motor yet). i want to do this swap, but need to know what i'm looking at regarding the guages working. thanks, riz

http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/clutch/63/

This is the site for the swap, read it, I think he said he re-used the third gen gauges.

Personally I would make an aluminum bezel to accommodate an aftermarket gauge cluster. It is easy to improve when someone makes the first leap of faith we can learn from. He has a great site with alot of information.

He did a real nice job adapting the fourth gen interior. If I only had the time and money.

There is someone out there with a camaro convertible that has the 4th gen dash installed WITH the 4th gen gauges. I dont believe it was a firebird dash though, i think it was a camaro. EDIT: I have the pics here, ill attach them.

PERSONAL OPINION... i loke the 3rd gen gauges in the 4th gen dash better, like the person mentioned above did. I think it gives it a more retro look, especially with that steering wheel. Anyways, im gonna have to post these individually, so here you go...

and another

and another...

lasersi: i think that's the guy who put the guages in, but wasn't able to see if everything worked because he couldn't start the car due to not having his motor ready yet.

admrlam: do you know who the guy is (what's his screen name)that owns the red convertable in your posts? i'm dying to do this conversion and he has the 4th gen guages installed. i want to know what he had to do to get them working.


thanks for the responses guys...lets get a few more in here

riz

Do most people here NOT like the 3rd gen dash. that is one of my favorite parts of the car. the style is so different then most cars. i actually thing the interiors on the 4th gen was impart the reason why the sale of 4th gens were low. just my 2 cents!
Shaun

y don’t u just mod. your normal interior

This is a pet peeve of mine. If you want a fourth gen interior, buy a fourth gen. I don't understand why anyone would want to spend the time and money to make this swap. The third gen dash looks better anyway. The interior isn't even the best part of a fourth gen, the drivetrain is. A drivetrain swap I could understand. The idea of taking two cars that are not made anymore and hacking them up to install something that was never intended should be criminal. Think of our 1st and 2nd gen brothers who are trying to restore their f-bodys and can't because parts are hard to find and the parts they do find are butchered up. Please for the love of *** if you are that impressed with a fourth gen interior buy a fourth gen car. Fourth gens aren't even that expensive anymore.

How would you set up your heater controls? All i care about is that it can blow on windsheild

Spindr,

Is that your car? Funny that I saw those panels cause this morning I decided I was going to do something similar after looking through some custom interior books. They look great. If it is your car, did you do the flush mount stereo? If you get a chance can you shoot me a PM I am in the middle of my interior project. Redoing console a bit. Swapping gauges. Adding computer automated system with 10 or 15 inch touch screen that controls lights and runs diacom so I can benchmark car. Whats one more project.... lol

Twist

Sorry Twist it isnt my car. i just had that pic in my collection
Shaun

Spindr130, most people prefer the 4th gen interior because it is more comfortable, and the large majority believes it looks better. No big deal. People can do what they want; it's their car. I will admit that I like some parts of the 4th gen interior but I prefer the dash in my 91 bird. I can see all of my gauges with ease but behind the wheel of a fourth gen, some gauges, even the tach, is blocked. I am indeed a fan of the thirdgen interior, but I can also see why many like the latter.

4th gen is not more comfortable. Thats a myth, and everyone wants them, cuase its newer and think think its comffy, when they actually get them, they hate the damn things later on.

I just want the friggin cup holder. I dont want to freeze my stuff off.

4th gen seats are not more comfortable.... I drove to Toronto from Hamilton and my back was aching in ma buddies 98 Trans Am.... I drove to Sudbury from Hamilton in my 85 IROC and didnt have a problem.. But, I like the look of the leather 4th gen interior better so I will be doing the swap...

Fourth gen seats are identical (with the exception of headrests) to the thirdgen seats. At least in the birds they are. As far as cup holders go, the one in my 96 formula sucks. The lip is shallow on the front and every time you tap the brakes your drink topples over. If you really want to make the swap, get one of the later consoles with the flip out cup holder. Its not easy to get to but it holds your drink better. My new moto, pirated from an old GM slogan "Keep your third gen all third gen."

Sorry, i dnot know who he is, i snagged the pics from the old thirdgen.org a while back.

Spindr: Im NOT putting a 4th gen dash in my car, i am making a custom dash myself. But just because you think its ugly doesnt mean that belief is gospel. I think its "criminal" to leave a car stock, does that mean it is? No. o.p.i.n.i.o.n.

Good luck on your swap though, ask around, someone else has to know the guy whos pics i have...

I said it was criminal, not Spindr. And suprise!!!! I was also giving you my o.p.i.n.i.o.n.

Hey Guys
I didnt mean to start a "flame"
all i wanted was to hear your reasoning for swapping in a 4th gen dash. i dont get it so i just wanted to know why.
Shaun
a
oh and i am not against 4th gen parts swap.. i have a 2000 console and 97 white leather seats in my car so i am not a purist. i just dont like the dash

I don't think this thread has become a "flame" You know the saying "opinions are like azzholes, everybody's got one." LATA

I don't really care for the idea of putting a whole 4th gen dash and interior into a 3rd gen. Don't get me wrong I think it is really awsome what we can do with these cars! I test drove a 98 Firebird and I wasn't too impressed with it. I was really taking in all the hipe with these cars and when I drove one I was a bit dissapointed. The car I drove was a v6 model with all the options. Much better than my current set up which is a base 4 cylinder firebird.

To get to my point, I love the 82-84 Firebird and there dash and wouldn't want to change it out for anything. I did however get a set of 4th gen seats out of a 93 Camaro. I think they look and feel much better than the original seats that I had in the car. Plus they are the high back buckets very similar to my original seats. If you want to put a 4th gen interior into your 3rd gen by all means I wont stop you. But someone brought up a great point....let the people down the road restore their cars with original parts...don't hack them all up to pieces so we have to spend quadruple the amount for aftermarket reproductions.

Just my 2 cents.

The first rule, in my opinion, is to make any modification easily reversible. As a car stereo installer, I use a wire harness adapter instead of cutting the car's harness up, and I remind the customer to save his factory radio rather than throw it away or sell it.

It's okay if you put in fourthgen seats, console, or whatever....as long as the old parts are laying in your basement or attic.

When I decided to try installing kick panel speakers, did I cut my own panels up? No, of course not. I obtained another pair from the junkyard to experiment with.

I'm in the process of planning an entire custom enterior to suit my needs, including handmade door panels and center console... vinyl headliner, visors, and rear speaker covers...aftermarket 2-tone leather seats....revised, hand-made trunk trim, and so on..............of course, I'll make no permanent modifications to the car, and I'll store all the original pieces in a safe place.

Anyone know how to do this or 4th gen and 3rd gen HVAC are compatiable?

v/r

m-t

as a somewhat tall person (6 feet) i like the thirdgen dash layout over the 4th gen because it offers alot more knee room.thirdgen have that nice little "cutout"(circled in pic) in the dash where the legs are on the passenger side,and the driver side seems to be alot more bigger compared to 4th gens also.it doesnt go down as much from the bottom if the instrument panel,just goes almost straight back towards the firewall.anyone agree with me?

Just wondering, does anyone else have their under the steering wheel panel above the pedals removed? I was starting a freind of mine's TA with a 5 speed and that panel was just freakin annoying... I kept bumping the underside of the dash with my feet! Keep in mind I do wear size 13 shoes... not freakish but a little above average.

I am going to put a 4th gen Caramo dash in my car! I have the parts I want! Now it time to go to work! I need your help! If you have done this or know of someone who has; Please share your information with me.

v/r

m-t

Check the link second post to the top!

Please take lots of pictures! Before, during, after!

Twistopher, Why don't you just get firebird door cup holders?

Sorry, I only have a normal camara. I'll do my best. This is a Carmaro. I know the process works with a Firebird/TA. The old dash is out and I am working at what to do next! Without the help of fellow f-body owners., my chance of success is low....

v/r

Ron

If anyone can help I need the instrument cluster wiring layout i.e. What gets connected to C-1, C2....D-1, D-2..., etc on the instrument cluster connector?

Thanks

m-t

The Heater/AC controls has been attempted by GndPrx PM or Email him for more info.

Thanks, I already sent him an email...

v/r

m-t

i am going to put in a 93-96 camaro interior with Nordskog digital gauges from Summit

its gonna cost me a fortune, but hey, thats what a project car is all about


i like the 93-96 interior better

i feel the 97-up (my dad has a V6 97) is too plain

but i am going to use the 97-up console

I too am going to put a Camaro dash as well as the door panels in my Trans Am.

I am very fond of the 4th gen interior.

I have 96 Trans Am Leather Seats, 94 Camaro steering wheel, 97 WS6 Trans Am Wheels, 95 Formula 3.42 Posi Disc Rear, 97 Trans Am center console, and that is about it for now.

Other mods on my car are 91-92 Camaro Rocker panels and 91-92 Camaro Hi-Rise Spoiler.

And don't bring up that "You should be a 4th gen since you like the insides so much" crap. I've already owned a 96 Trans Am LT1 6speed, runs 13.4 @ 105, and a 96 Camaro 5 speed, ran 16.1 with a bad ignition coil. I love the 3rd gen exterior, it's my favorite, and the 4th gen interior is awesome.
If I could, I'd put in the dash from a C5 Corvette, that is sweet.

Here are a couple of pics.




My other cars,

Isnt that the point of hotrodding? Why have something EVERYONE else has? Do you mean to tell me when you goto those car shows with all the totally custom cars, you dont like any of them because some have an instrument cluster from a 1957 chevy in a 1933 Ford (probably a bad analogy). Chew on that for a while.

I have this guys email address. I was in contact with him a LONG time ago, but he just stopped replying to my emails. When we first started chatting, he offered to take pictures of some brackets he had made and other pics of the install, but I never recieved them. I remember him also telling me that he was starting a business and he was going to be very busy, so it may take a while to get the pics. Its been about a year and a half probably I have a link to his website and his email address at my house. I'll post it when I get home from work.

Yes, his heater controls work, but only becuase he used the 4th gen heaterbox. He had to remove the old heater box and cut the hole out a little larger so he could fit the 4th gen heater box. He did this withouot the engine in the car, so it made it MUCH easier. It may even be impossible with the engine in the car, dont know though. He also swapped the LT1 into the car too, so all the guages work!

Scott 92 RS Here's an analogy for ya. How about the bozo that straps a four wheel drive chassis under his f-body. I have seen that done more than once. That's custom. But guess what, my opinion is it still sucks. Buy a truck if you want the benefits of one. Don't destroy one vehicle for the components of another. I will always understand upgrading. First There is absolutely no upgrade from the fourth gen door panels to the third gen. I still say (and most car people agree) that the third gen firebird dash is one of the best ever. You can see all of the guages all of the time. I liked my dash in my 89 formula a lot more than the dash in my 96 formula (glove box excluded) So there is no upgrade there. Is anyone even hooking up the airbags. At least that is a functional superior feature. Christ the seats are the same people. Yes, I agree that fourth gen seats are newer and bound to be in better shape, plus they bolt right up, no uneccesary cutting involved, I can live with that swap, but they are the same seats (at least the pontiacs are). Hot Rodders do not try to turn a 55 Chevy into a 65 Chevy. They fabricate custom work that is their own. Again this is my opinion, but If I am going to spend that much time and money on a mod, its going to get me from point A to point B quicker. I would much rather tell someone that I spent x dollars and x hours on my engine/ suspension/ tranny so that I could have a better performing car, than say I spent x dollars and x hours so that I can say yeah my interior is from a 95 T/A. Whatever. I am not going to spend the time and money to rig up some sort of dash that probably wont function correctly or fit correctly. Tell me about how you swapped your LG4 for an LT1, now that is a worthwhile swap. I just don't get the interior thing. I'm sorry I've tried but I don't.

Well, first of all, the 4x4 F-Body usually isnt the most popular "mod" around, but if somone wants to buy a junked F-Body and do it, more power to them. I do realize people dont turn 55's into 65s, I'm saying they may use certain parts from other vehicles to get to their desired goal, as well as making their own stuff. I want a sleek looking interior that actually has some visual appeal, not a boxy looking interior that looks like something from the 80's (oh wait, it is ). And how can you say the seats are the same? I cant speak for the Firebirds, but I know when I swapped my stock 3rd gen Camaro pieces of crap (they were still in good condition), for 4th gen units, I immediately felt the difference. I'm not trying to turn my car into a 4th gen, I just think the interior looks 10x better than the 3rd gen interior. Who said I'm not working on an engine swap, either The engine swap is first, then I'll get to work on swapping in a 4th gen interior.

Oh, and I've seen a couple of the dash swaps, and both of them have fit very well, and they function just like they were supposed to. As long as you take the time to do it correctly, I'm sure everything will come out looking great.

Scott 92 RS: I value your opinion, I just don't agree with it. From what I've read and seen, GM retained the third gens seat design to save money. The same seats that were in my 89 formula were the same seats that were in my Wife's 93 Grand Am. If you stumble upon some scrapyard third gen that you want to play with by all means bring it back to life in whatever form you wish, but when you start cutting up parts that are not being made anymore, that just hits a sore spot with me. I've spent many hours shlepping through bone yards looking for third gen and fourth gen interior pieces only to find they have been hacked up to make way for bigger speakers, cup holders or some other stupid schmidt. What I guess I'm trying to say here is that swap whatever you want (even if I think it's silly) just do it without destroying some original part. If you were looking for a 71 Firebird, do you want the one that is original or do you want the one with the third gen dash, corvette seats and fourth gen Camaro door panels. I know which one I'd pick.

I value your opinion also. I really dont ever plan on selling this car, unless someone in my family is dying and I dont have the money to pay for surgery. Nobody else is gonna have to deal with any stupid schmidt that I do to the car I have put so much time/money into this car, that I just cant let it go.

Well, lets hope that doesn't happen. You shouldn't have to sell your car though. Do it yourself. With all the surgery you're performing on that Camaro, you should be able to perform open heart triple bypass on a family member with no problems. "just a little incision here, a tuck there... ahhh fits like a glove." j/k

LOL, I think I'd rather sell my car than put lives at risk I'd probably try changing the hearts spark plugs or something, which most likely wouldnt work.....or would it..........Maybe you can add heart headers for better flow......hmmm, I think I'm onto something!

Nah, what ya do is use hollow oversized valves and port and polish the arteries for better flow. Beef up the bottom end and then add some nitrous.

What about changing the ECM, and maybe advancing the timing a little. Also, I've heard upgrading the gas tank would be a good idea, because sometime leaks are hazardous

One of those MSD boxes probably wouldnt hurt either

Now you're talking. Get a custom chip for the pacemaker.

Here is the email address and web page for the guy with the sweet Red IROC. There are some more pics of the car on the site, but not much else

http://home.c2i.net/heggestad/camaro/Camaropage.html

z28conv@online.no

That crazy mutha even put in the freakin gas tank from the 97 Camaro he used as a donor!!

lol hummmmmmmmm

Spindr130, how did you get those flames on the door skins

Sorry maverick544 but it isnt my car.. i found that pic about a year ago
Shaun