Interesting 1LE upgrade installation problem! - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Colt · 06-26-2002, 01:36 AM

This is a copy of the email I sent AndyZ28. Hopefully he'll respond.

Andy,

I've been following this 1LE upgrade craze ever since it began almost two years ago. You'll probably remember my post on the message board. Here's the link. http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...daptor+bracket

I was able to buy a pair of the coveted caliper carrier brackets that are no longer available through GM. Just this week, I'm finally getting around to installing the whole setup. I have run into an interesting problem.

It seems that the adaptor bracket #18016034 is too thick. Both of mine measure out to a thinkness of just about 5/8 inch.

The problem that arrises is that when I bolt the carrier to the bracket, there is not enough clearence for the carrier to slide over the rotor. I measured my rotor thickness and it's about 1.038" thick. Have you seen this problem before. What is the standard thinkness of the adaptor bracket #18016034?

What's interesting is that the caliper itself, loaded with the pads fits over the rotor just fine. Is my bracket just too thick??????

Please let me know.

Thank you,

ebmiller88 · 06-26-2002, 10:09 AM

Hey Colt, I'll measure my brackets and rotor tonight and post what I find here, with pics.

Ed

Colt · 06-26-2002, 10:53 AM

Thanks, I'm going to measure mine again today and take some pictures also with my digi camera. I'll post the results here.

Omega · 06-26-2002, 03:17 PM

Ok, ignore what I said. I thought you were talking about the rear brakes. Sorry.

ebmiller88 · 06-26-2002, 09:39 PM

Ok, here's some shots I took. The caliper bracket is 5 13/16" in overall length, and is right at 5/8" thick.

ebmiller88 · 06-26-2002, 09:46 PM

My pics are huge so I won't post another one. The rotor is about 1 1/8" thick, my pics were blurry.

Colt · 06-27-2002, 01:25 AM

Okay, here are my measurements that I took today. It seems that our bracket width is the same at 5/8". My exact measure was 6 thousands less, but that is negligible. Our rotor width is also just about the same, the difference is negligible. Mine is about 1 1/25" which is the same as 1.040" as seen in the picture. If our adaptor brackets and rotors are the same there must be a difference in the carriers. What are your measurements in the place where I took my sample on the carrier??? I'm wondering if that is different or the surface where the adaptor bolts to has a different offset.

Andy, I hope you can jump into this also.

I also included pictures of the numbers cast into the carriers. These aren't the GM part #'s, but I'm wondering if your's are the same?????? Let me know, please.

Colt · 06-27-2002, 01:28 AM

Omega, we are talking about the front brakes.

Justins86bird · 06-27-2002, 01:52 AM

Edit: deleted to avoid confusion

Appearently the shop manual has an incorrect picture of how the brakes bolt up. SO just ignore my post

JERRYWHO · 06-27-2002, 01:53 AM

Colt

All is O.K. what you have to do is not try to install the bracket and the carrier at the same time.

The proper way is to mount the bracket to the spindle than the rotor will go over the bracket than you can drop the carrier over the rotor down to the bracket.

When your done the bracket will be inside the rotor ( on the back side ) thats the reason you can't bolt the carrier to the bracket and slide it over the rotor.

Hope this helps

Jerry

JERRYWHO · 06-27-2002, 02:07 AM

Justin

What parts book did you get that from.

The drawing lines showing the carrier on the out side of the bracket are not right.

Jerry

JERRYWHO · 06-27-2002, 02:20 AM

Colt

Just look at http://www.ws6transam.org/1LEbrake.html

Jerry

Justins86bird · 06-27-2002, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JERRYWHO
Justin

What parts book did you get that from.

The drawing lines showing the carrier on the out side of the bracket are not right.

Jerry

I got that out of the GM 92 shop manual. Hmmm. Better get rid of it to avoid confusion if its wrong.

ANDYZ28 · 06-27-2002, 06:59 AM

I believe the problem is one of assembly techique.

1)The adapter bracket must be mounted onto the spindle first.

2) Then the rotor is attached to the spindle.

3) Now attach the caliper carrier to the adapter bracket.

4) Lastly, install the caliper into the caliper carrier.

Tom, the image you posted shows the adapter bracket resting against the rotor. The image I have attached show quite clearly that the adapter bracket rides inside the rotor.

So if you will place the adapter inside of the rotor and reassemble everything. I belive the problem will be solved.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

ebmiller88 · 06-27-2002, 08:37 AM

Great shots, Colt. Better than what I had. I'm with Andy and Jerry on this one. I found that out when I put my rear brakes on earlier this week. Rotor will not go on if the caliper carrier is already bolted on. Bracket, then rotor, then carrier....I'd do that.

Ed

Omega · 06-27-2002, 08:55 AM

Colt:

I didn't see a spindle in the pics, do you have any yet? You might find that it works when everything is bolted up to the spindle.

Colt · 06-27-2002, 01:44 PM

Gentlemen, thank you forthe help! Thanks Ed, Jerry, and Andy. I don't know why I didn't realize this myself. I completely understand the assembly process now.

Thanks again.

Colt · 06-27-2002, 01:49 PM

Okay guys, thanks for solving that problem. Now on to the next. I realized that the brake line banjo bolt from my old iron stock caliper does not fit into the 1LE caliper. Anybody know what size the banjo bolt for the 1LE caliper needs to be????

ebmiller88 · 06-27-2002, 03:11 PM

I just got 2 yesterday, but I don't have the wrapper with me. Ran me $7 for the pair from dealer.

From Dan Burke's page:

http://www.ws6transam.org/1LEbrake.html

It's P/N 10286122.

HTH...

Ed

Colt · 06-28-2002, 01:00 AM

Interesting Ed. From my research that I did today, a GM dealer told me that the part number for the banjo bolts is 14000404. And I made sure he was looking at the 2 piston 1LE caliper application. I've also determined that the thread for the banjo bolt is an M8 X 1.0 pitch.

Ed, is there anyway you can find the receipt or the wrapper just to verify this part number????

Tom

ANDYZ28 · 06-28-2002, 06:41 AM

Damn, I've got to get that darned "CD" done!

Here is a photo and part# of the bolt you will need.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

Colt · 06-28-2002, 09:27 AM

thanks for the part number guys. It seems that the P/N 10286122 for the banjo bolt is correct. Andy, do you think that it is a M8 X 1.0 pitch thread??? None of the chain part stores carry this size. It seems like it's only available through GM. I can't even find anyone on the internet who sells an M8 X 1.0 banjo bolt.

ANDYZ28 · 06-28-2002, 10:02 PM

GM only! The parts stores have no clue!

Thanx,ANDYZ28

I have them in stock if you are tired of looking.

Colt · 06-29-2002, 01:14 AM

You're right, the part stores have noooooo clue. I already ordered from GM and I'll have it on Tuesday.

Thanks anyway.

Tom

Eightyninef · 07-03-2002, 06:03 PM

I too am almost done with my 1LE front brakes. the 89 Factory manual is all wrong and very incomplete.

the installation process is definatly a PITA.

and torquing the carrier to 137 ft pounds in the fender well on the inside is ridiculous.

Omega · 07-03-2002, 06:53 PM

137!!! The BAER carriers only call for 84 ft/#'s!

ebmiller88 · 07-11-2002, 06:57 AM

I just put my brackets on the spindles on Monday, and I also thought 137# was way too far up there. I never reached it with my torque wrench. I felt that I was close to stripping out the threads in the spindle so I quit. I put red Loctite on the bolts so I'm sure they'll hold.

Eightyninef · 07-11-2002, 07:58 AM

The bracket into the spindle is 87 ft lbs.

the carrier into the bracket is 137 ft lbs which is from behind and very difficult. especially if you ever want to pull the rotor and repack bearings. I think it is rather stupid if you ask me.

either than or the 89 FSM is all wrong, which I suspect because the pictures are all wrong. and I think 89 is the first year of the big brakes.

does anyone have a 92 FSM? that should be correct.

Justins86bird · 07-15-2002, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry Burd
either than or the 89 FSM is all wrong, which I suspect because the pictures are all wrong. and I think 89 is the first year of the big brakes.

does anyone have a 92 FSM? that should be correct.

I have the 92 manual. I posted the pic out of it earlier, but since I found out it was wrong, I removed it. I guess GM never bothered to correct it.

ANDYZ28 · 07-15-2002, 07:00 AM

All of the "GM" service manual images are wrong. That is why I am soon to have a 1LE front, and rear brake upgrade "CD" published. Some members have already seen sample images from the upcoming "CD".

It may sound corny to some of you. But the reason that I went to all the trouble to gather and publish a "CD" with all of the required pictures and info. Is safety!

For example; The mixup with the bolt torque. And Loctite is not to be used. Brake pads installed backwards. "Why can't I get the pin into the brake pads?" Brake pads installed without the anti rattle springs. ETC.

Those of you on this board who know me. Know that the "Safety Thing" is a big deal to me. If someone is going to do a brake conversion. they should have ALL available information which will help them do it Safely.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

Eightyninef · 07-15-2002, 07:58 AM

Justin86

can you fax me the section from the 92 manual?
and I'll compare it to the 89 manual.
it's called the guided disk brake section.

Andy,
the caliper carrier bolts come pre-loctied from the factory. so that has to be correct. I do question the 137 ft-lbs of torque though, even though I did about 130 ft-lbs. I do not look forward to removing my rotors, or repacking bearings..........

ANDYZ28 · 07-15-2002, 08:53 PM

The adapter braket to spindle bolts do not come with loctite attached to them.

I have attached an image of the GM part# 11508133 as it was removed from the package.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

Justins86bird · 07-15-2002, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry Burd
Justin86

can you fax me the section from the 92 manual?
and I'll compare it to the 89 manual.
it's called the guided disk brake section.

Dont have a fax

I can email it to you. Email me if you want.

Justins86bird · 07-15-2002, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ANDYZ28
The adapter braket to spindle bolts do not come with loctite attached to them.

I have attached an image of the GM part# 11508133 as it was removed from the package.

Thanx,ANDYZ28

My 11508133 bolts are still in the sealed bag and don't have loctite on them either. But 14084051 does.

Eightyninef · 07-15-2002, 09:16 PM

justin, sure email me .. larryburd@mail.com
thx a bunch!!

andy...
the bolts from the caliper carrier to the bracket come pre-loctited. re-read my post above, then look at justins picture. you'll see what I mean.