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Originally posted by ebmiller88 Installing the 1LE hub. Note the two styles of spindle nuts here. I changed over to the " '92" style, which uses a 2 piece nut instead of the thicker one. This style allows you to not have to back the nut out for the cotter pin holes to line up. With all the slots in the nut cover, you barely have to move the nut at all to insert the pin. Note the nut cover lying on top of the hub.
IIRC the fix for the LS1 big brake swap with GTA crosslace rims was to space the wheel out with washers on the studs because the calipers were rubbing on the backside of the laces. With a 13 inch setup I think you might be getting into the inside of the rim on one of these wheels as well as interference with the laces.
I haven't tried the rear wheel, but I'll be getting a front and rear and trying it again...I hope I'm wrong. And yes, there was a problem with the LS1 brakes and the GTA mesh wheel...it's covered in the LS1 brake thread in the FAQ forum.
Wow! My brain is numb after this thread (and one before). I was debating on doing a 1LE swap for my 85 Z28, wondering how hard these would be to put on a stock brake set-up? I noticed that you were already working with a C4 brakes, this 13" set-up was only $500 more?
Have any plans on selling these as a complete kit? Do you have a detailed list typed up or anything?
one question... what about 4th gen wheels on these brakes.... they'll stick out to far wont they?
You'll still need to run a 1.5- 2" or so spacer to fit up 4th gen wheels.
One Long...(He he..."long")...it depends on what your definition of hard and difficulty. You'd need to mod the spindles, make hubs and brackets, and then get all the brake parts. It really depends on what all you can do yourself.
Well boys, there's good news for you guys with 16" Formula wheels...the 13" HDs fit with no problems. I fit them up on my RS this afternoon between rain storms and here's the pic. It's really tight, less than 3/8" between the wheel and the caliper but it will fit.
Ed
Last edited by ebmiller88; 09-08-2004 at 10:27 PM.
Originally posted by ebmiller88 Well boys, there's good news for you guys with 16" Formula wheels...the 13" HDs fit with no problems. I fit them up on my RS this afternoon between rain storms and here's the pic. It's really tight, less than 3/8" between the wheel and the caliper but it will fit.
Ed
Damn, now I'll have to build a 3rd gen 'bird to road race/autocross now too...
__________________ 3rd gen Firechicken. Midwest region American Iron #134
Ok just to clear up a few questions I have right now about this conversion, sorry ahead of time if it has been answered and i missed it. Ok first off i work at Oreillys and ordered in the C4 calipers and the non HD rotors, so today I go to work to take a look at them and the rotors measured 13" not 12? I am 100% sure that I ordered the non-HD rotors, and there isnt a possibilty of being boxed wrong with the HD rotors because we do not have a listing for the HD rotors. So anyways to my question, from what I have read the carriers are different between the non-HD and the HD carriers correct? Therefore i would have to use the HD carriers to use the rotors (13") that i had ordered in? Also the bracket is the same for both setups correct, except for the thickness of the bracket? I have made a few practice hubs on the brake lathe at work and it only took me about 30 minutes to do one, best part was i was getting paid to do it! Oh yeah you have to use the 1LE hub right? are the calipers the same for the non-HD and the HD brakes? sorry for all the questions, and thanks in advance.
__________________ Brandon ....
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so today I go to work to take a look at them and the rotors measured 13" not 12? I am 100% sure that I ordered the non-HD rotors, and there isnt a possibilty of being boxed wrong with the HD rotors because we do not have a listing for the HD rotors.
If you ordered them for a '95 or '96 C4, they're all 13"...they went standard in '95 and then the C5s came in '97.
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the carriers are different between the non-HD and the HD carriers correct?
Yes, the HD carriers will hold the 1.1" thick rotor. The standard C4s are just .81" thick.
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Therefore i would have to use the HD carriers to use the rotors (13") that i had ordered in?
Or you could send them back...but you'll need the HD calipers obviously.
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Also the bracket is the same for both setups correct, except for the thickness of the bracket?
Yes...
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Oh yeah you have to use the 1LE hub right?
For the HDs, yes.
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are the calipers the same for the non-HD and the HD brakes?
Hey Ed, do these brakes use the same templates as the Baer setup?
__________________ '88 Formula, T-5, 350, Dart heads, SLP Headers, 3" race magnum muffler, Hotchkis springs, Tokico Illumina 5 adjustable shocks and struts. Now with the infamous traction delete option :-(
If the HDs are pretty close to the baer kits the crosslace rims will NOT fit, however the rims in the pic that I posted will. But I think I remember something about wheel weights may have to be moved
Does any one have the "LS1 brakes" or C4 brakes as a kit yet, I'm looking to buy some bigger brakes next month. I looking at Baer track from www.fbodymotorsports.com for $975 or the 1LE kit from Spohn for $850.
I don't think the GTA crosslace wheels will fit, I just didn't try it when I had the wheel. The LS1s definitely don't fit in them so I don't think they will.
Originally posted by 91B2L Does any one have the "LS1 brakes" or C4 brakes as a kit yet, I'm looking to buy some bigger brakes next month. I looking at Baer track from www.fbodymotorsports.com for $975 or the 1LE kit from Spohn for $850.
If the Baer kit is the 12" then I recommend the 12" 1LE kit Spohns has. Cheaper for the same performance.
__________________ -Justin- out of my mind and I'll never know why '86 Pontiac Firebird 305-4bbl / 700R4 T-Top WS6
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Originally posted by acescarrsRS What are the advantages of a hub/rotor design brake setup in your opinion? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, just curious
You don't have to repack your front wheel bearings every time you replace the brakes on the front of your car.
I'm not an expert by any means...but I'd assume that the 2 piece design would better isolate heat transfer from the rotor to the hub and vice versa. Which is always a good thing.
If I were running a front wheel that required the 12" brakes...I'd do the 1LE setup....but I'd modify it for the seperate rotor hub arrangement.
Seperate hubs can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on how you look it. With a seperate hub you wont have to repack the wheel bearings when you change rotors. If you didn't have a seperate hub, you would have to repack them, and repacking them with new gease is always a good thing. Wheel bearings are one of those forgotten things that leads to burnt bearings and scored spindles. Even with seperate hubs, they should be repacked regularly. With the hub and rotor cast together, this forces someone to practice a good maintenance routine. And it takes no time at all to pack them.
A seperate hub advantage is the cost of the rotor should be lower then if they are were cast together.
The 1LE have the hubs are cast with the rotor. The Baer 13" and C4 HD have seperate heavy duty hubs (C4HD uses a turned down 1LE rotor as a hub). The 12" C4 uses the small hubs from 10.5" discs, which have smaller bearings and not much area on the hubs for the wheel to center on. Plus the reg C4 rotors are thinner then the Baers and 1LEs.
Last edited by Justins86bird; 09-16-2004 at 09:57 PM.
The 12" C4 uses the small hubs from 10.5" discs, which have smaller bearings and not much area on the hubs for the wheel to center on.
Yes and no...it's true the standard hubs use a smaller outer bearing (Set 34 vs a Set 3 for the 1LE hubs) but both hubs are turned down to 5.9"-6.0" in diameter so both will have the same surface area for the rotor and wheel to sit on, at least that's how I do them....5.9" hub diameter.
Originally posted by ebmiller88 Yes and no...it's true the standard hubs use a smaller outer bearing (Set 34 vs a Set 3 for the 1LE hubs) but both hubs are turned down to 5.9"-6.0" in diameter so both will have the same surface area for the rotor and wheel to sit on, at least that's how I do them....5.9" hub diameter.
Ed
No, I didn't mean that part. I ment the area where its machined down to make the bore of the wheel fit snunggly to the hub. The shoulder maybe? Can't seem to think of the technical name right now.
You can see it in this pic <img src=http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/attachment.php?s=&postid=1804348>
High guys ok ive got this upgrade figured out thanx to all the work you guys have done researching it
The only thing i have a question about is the 1LE spindles that ill need for my 83Z28.Now when i go looking for these spindles do i look specifically for 1LE spindles or will stock spindles off of 88-92 camaro work?(are they the same).thnx in advance.
PS or can i just modify my stock ones?
__________________
Last edited by forums_suck; 09-17-2004 at 02:24 PM.
Originally posted by forums_suck High guys ok ive got this upgrade figured out thanx to all the work you guys have done researching it
The only thing i have a question about is the 1LE spindles that ill need for my 83Z28.Now when i go looking for these spindles do i look specifically for 1LE spindles or will stock spindles off of 88-92 camaro work?(are they the same).thnx in advance.
PS or can i just modify my stock ones?
It is so simple, just takes a grinder with a cutoff wheel, a drill w/ bit, a tap bit, and some cutting oil.
Originally posted by forums_suck Ok so i do this mod to my stock spindles?Idont have to buy special 1le spindles?
Stock non-1LE spindle. If you try and do this to a 1LE spindle, you'd have nothing to cut and the holes are already the larger size. You either buy 1LE spindles, or you perform this mod to Non-1LE spindles to make them 1LE spindles. Here's some I just did.
Anyone do a follow up to see if the GTA wheels fit the HDs? I've got Formula wheels right now but I'd like to know if GTAs fit. I want to run American Iron at the end of next season, or the year after and GTAs would be better for weight reasons.
I think he was referring to the tech article on 1LEs but most of the upgrades of this style will be the same with a minor tweak here and there depending on which brakes you want to run. I run 1LEs and C4 HDs on my cars at the moment:
Ed Miller, I sent you an email via your website a couple of days ago, did you not receive it? I asked about if your C4 12" brackets worked with a BAER track set of calipers & 13" rotors.
I think he was referring to the tech article on 1LEs but most of the upgrades of this style will be the same with a minor tweak here and there depending on which brakes you want to run. I run 1LEs and C4 HDs on my cars at the moment:
Ed Miller, I sent you an email via your website a couple of days ago, did you not receive it? I asked about if your C4 12" brackets worked with a BAER track set of calipers & 13" rotors.
I'm checking my mail now, I'm always a few days backed up. Front brackets? If so, then yes they will.
Ed
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Originally Posted by 91camarosRS
i was wanting to do the c4 13inch? slip on rotors. and was wanting to get a list somewhere?
I understand, I just shot you a similar how to. Again, they're all very similar. Call me if you need to and we'll discuss it.
Parts list?
C4 HD (J55) calipers, pads, abutments, banjos
13" J55 rotors
modified spindle set
HD hubs
HD adapter brackets
1LE brake lines (recommended for length)
Last edited by ebmiller88; 12-02-2008 at 01:05 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
What kind of master is everyone running? Im looking to upgrade to the C4 HD's and am putting in a 9 bolt with PBR's int eh rear. I was reading all the posts here, but nothing said about a certain master. The only thing I see metioned is the LS1 master.
__________________ 87 Camaro Z28 Waiting for LS1/4L60E transplant. Tons of TPI parts for sale 2009 Malibu LT 2.4: The comfy daily driver www.GMInsidenews.com www.NJFBOA.org
__________________ 87 Camaro Z28 Waiting for LS1/4L60E transplant. Tons of TPI parts for sale 2009 Malibu LT 2.4: The comfy daily driver www.GMInsidenews.com www.NJFBOA.org
Use your stock disc/drum master and you'll be fine. With those brakes you will have the equivalent to a 1LE setup (hydraulically) and that stock system uses a disc/drum master. You're good.
Are there any other brake upgrades I must do? Prop valve?
__________________ 87 Camaro Z28 Waiting for LS1/4L60E transplant. Tons of TPI parts for sale 2009 Malibu LT 2.4: The comfy daily driver www.GMInsidenews.com www.NJFBOA.org
Use your stock disc/drum master and you'll be fine. With those brakes you will have the equivalent to a 1LE setup (hydraulically) and that stock system uses a disc/drum master. You're good.
Ed
Ed,
Do you have the backing plates needed to install the PBR calipers on my '87 9 bolt that came with the iron calipers?
No, the Grand Sport calipers with the logo are of a slightly different casting that is too thick to be installed in 16" Irocs, which is why the Baer 13" Track kit won't fit...same casting used.
Teddy! 
