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I'm about to put (I hope) a set of 97-Z28 rear brakes on my '82 Camaro..I currently have a Dana 44 rear end (from the Chevy performance parts catalog, back in the 80's).
Will the 4th gen backing plates work?
Update: Well it is coming soon, I'm still working on the conversion and getting my pictures lined up...check back in a few days...
I finally found the correct parking brake cables for this conversion. NAPA #93858
__________________ If it breaks, make it stronger.
If it doesn't, try harder.
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Yes. The caliper brackets with the funny lopsided/out of square bolt pattern fit perfecly. Didn't need shimming, grinding or anything.
Although with the Dana 44 it is not as easy a swap as it might otherwise be. The 44 doesn't use c-clips to hold the axles in. They are held in by retainer plates bolted to the axle flanges.
So after locating and renting a slide hammer axle puller, I had to press the old bearings off of the axles. Then I could finally remove the bearing retainer plates and old caliper brackets, install the new brackets and old retainer plates and call it a day.
Now I have to locate new bearings to replace the old ones I destroyed while pressing them off.
I did mock up an axle with the new caliper bracket and everything seems to fit perfectly. At least as well as you could expect with no bearing.
I have a dana 44 rear. I am running 89+ PBR brakes on it, I may have miss read your post but you do not need to press off the bearings to change the brake brackets. The hole in the brackets is big enough for the bearing and bearing race to fit through it.
But not big enough for the bearing/seal retainer plate, which must come off before the brake bracket can.
Maybe yours was different than mine, but there was no way to get those parts off of the axle without removing the bearing. Which, BTW, is a Timken U298, just incase anyone needs to know. Bit it turns out that the local parts stores all know it as an "A9" assembly.
yes,i have a dana also and upgraded to ls1 brakes and you need to remove bearing to get backing plate on,heck i even had to remove bearing to get the old early style backing plates off
Originally posted by anthony714 yes,i have a dana also and upgraded to ls1 brakes and you need to remove bearing to get backing plate on,heck i even had to remove bearing to get the old early style backing plates off
These are the axle flange bolts that came on the Dana 44. Re-use these bolts. Do NOT use the bolts from the LT1 rear end axle flange, the heads are not cut and they will not fit properly.
This is a picture of a special press rig. It is designed to press the bearings off of the axle with-out destroying them. It didn't fit right and they were destroyed anyway.
Oh well, it was worth a try. If it had been complete and was not missing the insert that would have been a perfect fit it probably would have worked as advertised.
After re-assembeling the axles and putting them in the car it was clear that the brackets placed the calipers too close to the rotor. There was not enough clearance on the inside of the rotor for the caliper cage to fit properly. It would just barely fit and scraped the rotor.
So I dis-assembled the axles again (destroying another set of bearings) and milled .075" off of the brackets The surface that needed to be milled is shown below the axle, where the two bolt holes are. If you look carefully you can see the marks-a-lot writing indicating where it was to be milled and .075.
After the milling and re-assembly, everything fit. The 4th gen hard brake lines were close enough that with a little convensing they could be made to work.
The 4th-gen parking brake cables DO NOT WORK. I ordered a set of '91 Z-28 parking brake cables. I'll post another update later telling whether or not they fit properly.
BTW, I had to cut the bolt and remove the funny weights on the bottom of the calipers in order to clear my adjustable trailing arm re-location brackets.
I got a set of '89-92 brake cables. I got the second version (slightly longer) and put them on. They didn't fit over the levers on the caliper so I had to file the openings a little to get them on. One side never really went on properly.
Then the unsheathed part of the cable was about 2" too long. When I tightened up the adjustment in the middle of the car (above the drive shaft) all the way there was still 2" of loose cable.
So I looked around my junk pile for something likely to use and came up with a screw down wire connector thing. It has a brass housing with a bolt in the side to tighten it down on two battery cable sized wires, one would go in from each end. I poked the brake cable through one end then put a big bolt through from the other side (so that tightening the brakes will pull the head towards the connector and, of course, the head of the bolt will not fit through). Then I loosened up the cable adjustment all the way, pulled the cable through snug and tightened up the connector thing. The connectors bolt tightened the cable up against the threads of the other bolt, making a VERY secure attachment. Reapet for other cable and tighten factory adjustment (you know the thing aboove the drive shaft). It was some pretty tight work with the drive shaft, exhaust and torque arm all in place, so I didn't get any pictures.
I know my description is not very good, but the bottom line is the later version of the third-gen cable did not fit right, they are TOO LONG, but I made it work. The first (earlier?) version of the 3rd-gen brake cables for these calipers MIGHT fit a little better.
So I now have a functional parking brake for the first time in 20 yerars! It isn't
The reast of the brake conversion is also working great. I have never had better pedal feel or more consistant braking. The spongey feeling that I had grown so acustomed to over the years is gone at last.
I am VERY happy with how this all worked out, and my total investment was less than $250.00, including parking brake cables, brake cleaner, fluid and the the other incidentals. I have not rebuilt the calipers turned the rotors or replaced the pads, I'm using everything as it was deliverd from the junk yard.
BTW, it anyone wants to know I got my brakes from HP Salvage in San Antonio, no relation just a satisfied customer.
The caliper mounting bracket goes before the bearing retainer plate on the axle not after. So the brake bracket is between the bearing retainer plate on the axle and the housing flange. You don't press off the bearings to change the caliper mounting bracket.
I used the 89-92 Camaro 10 bolt backing plates, not the LT1 ones. The LT1 ones will probably not fit correctly because they are too thick. You can buy new 89-92 10 bolt PBR backing plates for about $20.
__________________ 1989 IROC-Z 350, Blue, T-Tops Engine: 350 ZZ4 Equivalent (ZZ4 Heads, cam, pistons, and rods) / Accel TPI Baseplate / TPIS Large Tube Runners / DIY chip / and a bunch of other odds and ends Drivetrain: Pro-Built Road Race 700R4 Tranny / Vigilante TC, 2600 Stall / LS1 Driveshaft / DANA 44 Rear w\ Moser Axles, 3.23 Gears, Trac-Loc LSD Chassis & Suspension: Spohn Sub-Frame connectors / C4-HD Brakes / Polished 16" IROC Rims Website: My Website, Brake Upgrade How-to, etc ~Luke
#1 there is no way to remove the old brackets without pressing off the bearings
and
#2 if the new brackets were placed between the axle flange and the retaining plate, the axle would not be able to seat properly.
Following your directions would result in a dangerous and UNSAFE situation. Maybe you have some other version of a Dana 44. Where did you get it? I got mine over the parts counter at my local Chevy dealer.
With the MINOR milling indicated the LT-1 brackets work great, they are also a LOT stronger/less flexible than the 3rd-gen brackets.
Quote:
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z no no no...
The caliper mounting bracket goes before the bearing retainer plate on the axle not after. So the brake bracket is between the bearing retainer plate on the axle and the housing flange. You don't press off the bearings to change the caliper mounting bracket.
I used the 89-92 Camaro 10 bolt backing plates, not the LT1 ones. The LT1 ones will probably not fit correctly because they are too thick. You can buy new 89-92 10 bolt PBR backing plates for about $20.
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z The caliper mounting bracket goes before the bearing retainer plate on the axle not after. So the brake bracket is between the bearing retainer plate on the axle and the housing flange.
Well on my Dana 44 if you didn't put the bracket between the axle retainer and housing flange the bearing would stick out way to far. If I were to take the axle with the bearing pressed on it and put it into the housing without the caliper bracket on the bearing would stick out about 1/4 a inch. The hole in the center of my caliper bracket was also big enough to slide the bearing through.
I didn't really take many pics of the rear before I put it into my car but here is a picture of the day it came off the truck before I painted it and all that.
This pic is just to show that it is infact a dana 44.
Mine came from Chevy with the brakes already installed. Although it appears to be a Dana 44, yours is NOT THE SAME type of Dana 44 that I got from Chevy. I even have my old Chevy HHP catalog from 18 years ago showing a picture of it (with the rotors and calipers installed).
When I put the axle (with the bearing in place) into the houssing, the bearing seats flush with the housing. Actually, the bearing goes a little farther into the housing to make room for the seal. It is hte seal that actually sits flush with the end of the axle tube.
BTW, if your bearing protrudes from your axle, where does the seal go?
Since it was done at the factory I am confident that the parts went together in the correct order. That order being Axle, Brake bracket, Bearing retainer, seal, bearing.
The bearing retainer, being designed to retain hte berings will not come off unless the bearings are removed. The brake bracket, being behind the bearing retainer will not come off until the bearing retainer is removed.
The only way the brake bracket would come off without first removing the bearing and retainer plate would be to cut it in half.
I have no idea why ours are different. The seal on yours is slightly different then mine. The seal on mine goes about 3/4 of the way into the axle housing, which is the part that has the actual seal contact area, the rest is sticking out but it is definitely designed to do that because the outside diameter is smaller on the part that sticks out and not meant to make a seal. Also if you look at the flange on my housing it has a lip / ridge / ring (not sure what to call it) where the caliper mounting bracket seats on. Yours doesn't have that. There must have been two different designs or something??
I don't think there where any other manufactures then the ones that came form the GM parts direct / SLP catalog. Also I highly doubt mine was custom fabricated up since the pumpkin has the torque arm mount cast into the housing.
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z I didn't really take many pics of the rear before I put it into my car but here is a picture of the day it came off the truck before I painted it and all that.
This pic is just to show that it is infact a dana 44.
It looks used. I take it you were not the origional owner?
At first glance it looks a little different that mine. My guess is that it was not one of the ones that Chevy made specifically for 3rd-gen Camaro's. If I am correct, that would explain the difference.
I just read your reply above...
If you don't know the origional source of yours for a fact, we really can't come to any conclusion other than "it's different".
But this occurs to me as a possible explination.
I have HEARD (I don't know) that hte ones from SLP came WITHOUT brakes. If that is true, it would make sence to modify the design to allow for easy bracket removal/installation.
MINE came from my local Chevy dealer in 1987 or 1988. At that time there had only ever been one rear disk design, and since replacing the brake brackets requires removing the berings from the axles, it makes sence that they would come with the brackets pre-installed. With the brackets pre installed, if you wanted to put it in a drum brake car you would then have to hunt down hte remainder of the parts. Which may be why MINE came with the the complete brake system pre-installed.
Again this is all speculation, but hte later ones delivered by SLP may have been a different design to allow for the brackets to be changed more easily, so that htey would work with either type of rear disks.
I don't know where my dana 44 was initially purchased from since I bought it used a few years ago. I bought it from a SCCA racer who had two laying around. It may have been a SLP unit but I was under the impression that the dana 44 from GM was the same one SLP sold. Anyone know the history of this? In the process of looking for almost a year to find the one I bought I came across a another dana 44 rear on ebay that had the exact same flange setup as mine.
I know I am reviving an old thread here, but I have some new news that someone might find helpfull. When doing my conversion I could not find anyone who knew what the correct parking brake cables would be.
Napa had two types for third gens with PBR calipers, one longer, one shorter. I origionally got the long ones and they didn't fit properly. Not only were they TOO LONG, but they had a cylinder crimped on the end that goes to the front of the car. My origional cables had balls crimped on the end.
So I ordered the other cables from Napa, the shorter ones. I finally got around to putting them on yesterday and they fit perfectly. They have the correct ball crimped on to the end that goes to the front of the car.
Both of these sets had to have the caliper end opened up a little in order to fit over the lever on the LT1 style 4th gen rear brakes. With a small grinding bit (like you would use for porting aluminum heads) in a drill it took about 20 seconds (going slow).
To sum up, if you are putting 4th-gen LT1 style PBR brakes on to an early style Dana 44 in an '82 Camaro the correct parking brake cable is:
I know I am reviving an old thread here, but I have some new news that someone might find helpfull. When doing my conversion I could not find anyone who knew what the correct parking brake cables would be.
Napa had two types for third gens with PBR calipers, one longer, one shorter. I origionally got the long ones and they didn't fit properly. Not only were they TOO LONG, but they had a cylinder crimped on the end that goes to the front of the car. My origional cables had balls crimped on the end.
So I ordered the other cables from Napa, the shorter ones. I finally got around to putting them on yesterday and they fit perfectly. They have the correct ball crimped on to the end that goes to the front of the car.
Both of these sets had to have the caliper end opened up a little in order to fit over the lever on the LT1 style 4th gen rear brakes. With a small grinding bit (like you would use for porting aluminum heads) in a drill it took about 20 seconds (going slow).
To sum up, if you are putting 4th-gen LT1 style PBR brakes on to an early style Dana 44 in an '82 Camaro the correct parking brake cable is:
NAPA Part # 93858
These cables are off of what year 90-92 and did you have to add an exstra bracket to where they hook to your stock front cable, or did they join right up to the existing front cable. Thanks for any info
I don't know what year they are SUPPOSED to go on, but they did fit properly with my origional front cable. My '82 origionally came with drum brakes, but I don't think that makes any difference on the front cable.
I have an 84 Trans Am at the moment and have a moser 9 inch that arrived at the shipping facility as we speak. I have drums on the back right now. I am debating on what style of brakes to put on the rear as I want to be able to run a 15 inch slick. Clearance is an issue and i am sure LT1 will work with no problems but LS1 will not work for me is my understanding. Then the cable set up. So thanks for the info
After reading this thread I was a little unsure of my own setup. It seems mine is like yours ESC, as the seal is pretty much flush with the ends of the tubes. The rubber around the axle sticks out very slightly. If I were to put the backing plate between the axel and bearing retainer there would be nothing to hold the bearing in place.
I've had this rear for close to 2 years and am only now getting to putting brakes on it. I bought it used and the last owner took the brakes and backing plates off before selling it. Looks like I have to go through the hassle of pressing the bearings on and off.. might as well get new ones.
It seems like a lot of work to bother with taking that old backing plate off.. not sure why the last owner did it.. lol would make things easier on me if he hadn't. Oh well..
Good info in this post. I need to get brake cables as well so now I know which ones to order.
I put 1989 PBRs on mine. You do not want more brake back there as in the LS1 set-up, you will get wheel hop if you ever do any hard braking. Mine was used in a race app so I know. I had to get a proportioning valve and practically dial the rear brakes out!
__________________ '84 Trans-Am CMC Race Car SOLD!
'91 Formula WS6 TPI 5spd street car
'94 TA 2006 CMC car
'97 TA Purdy Car
im putting on ls1 brakes on a dana 44 as well, but the guy whom i got if from sold the brakes off of it and i dont think i have the bearing retainer plate because the bearings just slide in and out.. where can i find a pair of these bearing retainer plates.. thanks..
