Brake BoardLooking to upgrade or get the most out of what you have stock? All brake discussions go here!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
I have a 1984 z28. Its all stock with a rebuilt motor. I am looking to upgrade my brakes, as I often notice they get mushy going down large hills. I enjoy taking my car out on sunny day trips in New England. I am considering spending some money on some nicer parts. I would like to know what people have had good reliable luck with. I want a brake setup that will be resonably long lasting, durable, and if possible noticeably inprove my braking. I know slotted and drilled rotors look cool, and give performance benefits, but is this a practicle upgrade for my application? I am only considering upgrading pads, and rotors, not calipers. Any advice would be great.
Here are the part numbers to the brake pads I used last year and the sets I have for sale now. Click the part number to go to their description on TireRack.
If you really want to stop on a dime, then you should get the HP+ HAWK brake pads. They give off a lot of brake dust and produce some noise, but they will throw you through the windsheild. A little more mild of an option is the HPS HAWK pads. They don't give off nearly as much brake dust while still providing a noticable reduction in stopping distances. This is the pad I have purchased to use for my LS1 brake upgrade, and these are the only pads I have had experiance with.
The drilled rotors serve no other purpose other then eye candy. They actually hurt performance, usually not a whole lot, but it does hurt performance because there is less material to soak up heat caused by braking. Often times, the holes will not have a chamfer or radius to help relieve stress around the holes which causes cracking (premature failure) long before teh user can get their money out of them.
Slotted rotors are ok, but I don't really see why they would be necessary. Some say it is in order to vent out the gases or brake dust from the pads when they get hot and break down, but if this happens, you have other things to worry about such as insufficient brakes for their current use. Modern pads are designed with breaks (gaps) in the liner that allow these "gases" and friction material to escape.
Braided brake lines would also be a worthwhile upgrade for you if you still have the stock lines installed. The braided lines will stop the lines from bulging under brake pressure which provides a firmer feel to the peddle. Stock rubber replacement lines should be fine for a daily driver, but braided lines aren't much more expensive so why not upgrade them.
I say go with some decent pads and stock rotors. Then just use some high temp paint on the hubs of the rotors to prevent rusting and so the wheel doesn't freeze to the hub as some have had problems with this.
+1 for Hawk pads. That's all I will use, even on my 4-banger economy car.
I bought the front upgrade kit from Stainless Steel Brakes, from Year One for $250. New slotted rotors and pads, very nice braking improvement and they have lasted years (although I don't drive the 'bird much).
DO NOT buy ebay cheapie rotors.
__________________
Any idiot can make a fast v8. It takes a real idiot to make a fast v6.
I disagree about slotted rotors however, I recently upgraded to drilled/slotted on my daily (Mazda3). The slots in the brake pads as described were caked with brake pad material and hardened, there was no way any of the gases were escaping from them.
The slots on the brake rotors also provide a good wear guide...when they are gone it is time to replace them. Wet weather performance is also mildly improved by drilled & slotted (in regards to initial bite due to less moisture build up).
I constantly go through brake rotors due to them overheating and I only do street driving, I have tried high quality OEM, cheap aftermarket, and Cryotreated. This is my first go at drilled and slotted, I am hoping they will dissipate heat fast enough for how I drive since I am tired of replacing rotors every 15-20k on every vehicle I own.
If you are replacing your rotors every 15 to 20k you really need to think about the way your driving. That or your brakes really really need some serious help.
As for the "breaks/gaps" in the pad for gas. If you maintain your brakes you won't have that problem. You should periodically take the slide pins/bolts out to grease them, clean that gap at the same time.
I have never overheated brakes in my life. I also don't see how people can do it. If you drive with both feet, that's your problem.
Their should be no reason to overheat your brakes on the street.
Dunno what to tell you, I don't brake until I need to and I brake firmly but smoothly. It may have to do with all the backroad blasts and slamming on the brakes when the radar detector goes off.
Nothing wrong with my brakes, I take good care of them. I bought my current car brand new and blew up the factory brake rotors @ 28k. I feel like a broken record since I hear it/say it a lot, but the factory brakes on the 3 are VERY good.
I never go through pads though. My pads generally show very little wear.
I've had drilled slotted for about a month now and I am quite happy with them, despite getting them off ebay. They weren't particularly cheap however.
I agree with kcb37. If you are going through rotors that fast, you have some issues with your brake system. I'm using the stock 10.5" rotors, stock iron calipers, and HAWK pads and I never have brake fad even when I autocross. I do a lot of autocrossing too. Last year alone, I took part in 14 autocross events, and this is in a climate where the snow takes away a couple months of the year. I also daily drive my car during the summer months and I still have yet to have an issue with my brakes. The only reason I'm going with the LS1 brakes is because of the extra performance for all the autocrossing I do. On a street only vehicle, the stock brakes with good pads are more then adequate.
You are proving my point when you say there is less moisture build up on the drilled rotors. That is because there is less surface area for the moisture to be on, just like there is less rotor to absorb the heat.
Mike
__________________ Suspension - far from stock, Brakes - far from stock Drivetrain - upgraded, Engine - bolt ons
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I have been going through rotors at that rate in every car I've had since I got my license 8 years ago. I've owned 13 cars in that time and developed that problem on most of them, I agree that it is my driving, I am suggesting increased durability due to better cooling.
As for the moisture build up I was thinking the slots would help keep it off at freeway speeds? That is what I was looking for since in the rain at 80 mph, I step on the brakes for the offramp and nothing happens for about 1.5-2.5 secs then the moisture burns off, the pads get abit of heat in them, and I start slowing down really fast. That always terrified me and I was looking to reduce it. I was wondering if my aftermarket wheels were helping to exessively cool my brakes/put more water on them.
thanks for the quick advice. I should be taking the rotors off today. It sounds like I can get the improvement I want with out changing the rotors, and just getting performance pads. If they look bad I think I will go with the stainless kit from year one. Its 205$ for the slotted rotors and high performance pads. I haven't found an inexspensive set of lines. I have never used stainless lines before. Any tips?
I'm also doing wheel bearings, ball joints, shocks, springs, and a tie rod. My drivers side wheel has a little knock to it when you push on it.
Consider stainless lines a serviceability upgrade, they also help with brake feel. They simply replace the rubber lines and are a bolt in affair. You should never have to touch them again after the installation.
Installing new brake lines is hardly a bolt in affair. If you don't BLEED the brakes afterward, you are going to experience much worse brake problems than would ever be caused by the stock line supposedly bulging under pressure.
If you consider bleeding your brakes a relatively easy thing to do, as I do, then it is indeed easy to change these lines, but nonetheless they do not just bolt in. For a lot of people, bleeding brakes is no simple task. Even though I am very comfortable doing so, I would not waste my time opening up a brake line that had nothing wrong with it just to upgrade these connecting lines. I would only consider upgrading these lines if there was a problem with the existing connecting lines such as if they were badly cracked or leaking or if there was some other reason that the front brake lines needed to be opened.
An option may be to buy new connecting lines now and change them out the next time your brake lines need to be opened. Brake leaks often happen at the worst possible times but at least you will have your new lines all ready to be installed. if the metal lines are rusted there is probably a leak in your future anyways.
I agree with kcb37. If you are going through rotors that fast, you have some issues with your brake system. I'm using the stock 10.5" rotors, stock iron calipers, and HAWK pads and I never have brake fad even when I autocross. I do a lot of autocrossing too. Last year alone, I took part in 14 autocross events, and this is in a climate where the snow takes away a couple months of the year. I also daily drive my car during the summer months and I still have yet to have an issue with my brakes. The only reason I'm going with the LS1 brakes is because of the extra performance for all the autocrossing I do. On a street only vehicle, the stock brakes with good pads are more then adequate.
You are proving my point when you say there is less moisture build up on the drilled rotors. That is because there is less surface area for the moisture to be on, just like there is less rotor to absorb the heat.
Mike
Mike, you were at ThirdGenFest, right? I thought your car was very, very cool. I went back to check it out 3 or 4 times --- at least.
__________________ 1989 IROC-Z, LB9, T-5, 3.45 -- pretty fast
1983 Z/28, LU5, 700R4, 2.93 -- half fast
1985 IROC-Z, LB9, 700R4, 3.42 -- it's yellow
Not a "peanut cam" in the bunch.
Thanks! It has been getting a lot of attention at my local cruise-in too. I didnt think my car would be that popular once I saw all the others closer to that line of trees, but I guess being only 18 with all the high end parts on my car does grab peoples attention. Im also proud to say that the money for both the car and the parts came right from me. No financial help from the family... just three part time jobs. My dad did help install some parts though. I had to pull a couple all nighters because the radiator went the night before a race, and I didn't have the front suspension put back together the other time. What and where was your car?
Mike
Are you going next year? I have a lot of big changes in store for my car.
__________________ Suspension - far from stock, Brakes - far from stock Drivetrain - upgraded, Engine - bolt ons
Last edited by racing geek; 06-09-2009 at 12:20 AM.
Thanks! It has been getting a lot of attention at my local cruise-in too. I didnt think my car would be that popular once I saw all the others closer to that line of trees, but I guess being only 18 with all the high end parts on my car does grab peoples attention. Im also proud to say that the money for both the car and the parts came right from me. No financial help from the family... just three part time jobs. My dad did help install some parts though. I had to pull a couple all nighters because the radiator went the night before a race, and I didn't have the front suspension put back together the other time. What and where was your car?
Mike
Are you going next year? I have a lot of big changes in store for my car.
This was me...
[/quote]
Mine was the Crossfire next to Sergio's super mint twin.
__________________ 1989 IROC-Z, LB9, T-5, 3.45 -- pretty fast
1983 Z/28, LU5, 700R4, 2.93 -- half fast
1985 IROC-Z, LB9, 700R4, 3.42 -- it's yellow
Not a "peanut cam" in the bunch.
I definatly remember your car. That thing was nice. That entire group of cars by the tree line made me realize how rough my body panels are. I think I remember you... were you wearing a red shirt and tan shorts, around 5'10/11"? I don't think I ever talked to you though. That will have to change next year.
I definatly remember your car. That thing was nice. That entire group of cars by the tree line made me realize how rough my body panels are. I think I remember you... were you wearing a red shirt and tan shorts, around 5'10/11"? I don't think I ever talked to you though. That will have to change next year.
I picked it up last year in Wisconsin - probably not all that far from you. It sure looks and runs better now than when I got it! I actually started reading this thread to see what would improve the braking on it's stock 10.5" discs. The pads seem pretty fresh, but this car's brakes need some help. I think I'll try the Hawk HPS pads you recommend.
I'm also planning to upgrade the front brakes to 1LE's on my '89 IROC-Z. Alot of people think I'm crazy to, since the car only has 10K miles --- but what the heck, I've always wanted them (for the past 20 years I've owned it).
I'm running the Hawks HPS pads and Powerslot front rotors. I picked these both up from www.tirerack.com. I redid my front brake system about 6 months ago with Powerslot rotors, new NAPA calipers, Hawks HPS pads, Earl's braided front lines, new brearings and new caliper pins. This made a significant improvement over the 20 year old worn out components. I do have a set of LS1 brakes ready to go on. I'm hoping for a 100% improvement with those.
i have never tried hawks, i have installed a set of "nascar" front brakes and rear shoes along with new front calipers and front L/F rubber brakes hoses and rear cylinders and the rubber brake hose on the diff that splits to left and right (everybody forgets this one!).. then bled the sysyem and changed all of the old fluid...my car stops really well considering it has drums at the rear...i can lock the front brakes easy if i want to come to a stop .
[/quote]
