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I've heard that WilWood calipers "kits were never really intended for street use and lack dust seals, provisions for shims, etc and can be very loud on the street."
I was wondering what the real world owners thought of this. I'm more interested in those who drive the cars on the street a good deal, and in all conditions. Cause that's what my car will see most likely lol. Thanks in advance for any information or advance!
__________________ KONIs I Eibach Pro-Kit I 36mm/24mm sway bars I Spohn: Adjustable PHB I Wonder Bar I SFCs Custom LCAs I LCARBs I J&M Products Camber/Caster plates I Hawk's Ceramic Pads I 4th Gen 3.23 Posi I LS1/LT1 Brakes
I believe I was the first one to manufacture and sell the willwood kits to Spohn back in 2002. I've had one of my kits on my car since then and put around 70k on the brakes. Still on the same set of pads and rotors. Yes if you use the wrong pads you will get squeeling and some chatter. As I recall I'm using the "K" pad compound and had zero problems with them. No noise, nice predictable braking even in track conditions.
They would not be good for the street. I have PBRs on my street car / track day car and they are great and low maintenance and easy to get pads for in a pinch.
Unless you are getting the brakes super hot there is no need for the willwoods for them. Also they are a bitch to center on the rotor and are prone to pad tapper.
The other issue is the master cylinder size, with a pbr set up the stock master cyliner will work fine.
I would not put willwoods on a street car unless you wanted to be cool at a car show.
Well it seems there are mixed opinions on a Wilwood front setup. I've not experienced any of the problems SDIF has described. No pad taper at all, and mine are perfectly centered. But this probably depends on who designed, built and installed the setup.
I used the stock disk/drum master for about 6 years, then recently went to a LS1 style rear disk setup and used the 4th gen master purely as an update. (I did switch to a disk/disk prop valve) I had a PBR setup on the front of my car and it just wasn't the eye popping experience I was looking for, so I designed and built the Wilwood setup I have now. Again I've had ZERO problems with my setup and can't see why it can't be used on the street.
Why would the chatters/noises come from Willwoods? Wouldn't the pad you run have the most impact on noise?
You are correct. I was sent the wrong set of pads initially ("B" pads I believe) and the car was miserable to drive. They squeeled, dusted badly, and didn't brake well until they were warmed up. I switched to the "K" compound pads and they work perfectly on the street.
Alloy, thanks for designing this system! These are real race car brakes. The pad taper I get is from the abuse I give the car. A stagger piston caliber would probably fix the issue.
The calibers need to be properly shimmed and centered on the rotor left right and diagonally.
Guys these are great brakes. PERIOD
My only comments were based on I do not believe that they are needed on a street car. The Bear PBRs on my track day car work fine unless you abuse them and boil the fluid. I doubt that you could do this on the street if you did you should be in jail.
If you do use this system on the street go buy some dba rotors and pay the extra money. The parts house c4 vette rotors are suspect. I would let the parts house keep 1 in three of the ones I ordered. They would be cast off center or have excessive runout up to .012. You will feel this in the pedal with a 13 inch rotor and may get pad knock if wheel bearings, rotor runout, and shimming are not perfect. are not perfect.
For a race car or track day car this is great, but it requires more maintence and attention to detail than a stock type set up.
Alloy, thanks again for engineering this set up. It is the best I can think of using off the shelf parts for real race car brakes.
You are correct. I was sent the wrong set of pads initially ("B" pads I believe) and the car was miserable to drive. They squeeled, dusted badly, and didn't brake well until they were warmed up. I switched to the "K" compound pads and they work perfectly on the street.
Could you explain to me what these "compounds" represent? I learn something new here everyday!
Compounds refer to the brake pad material and its intended application.
Race car pads do not work well until they get hot. ie they do not create enough friction to stop the car. their cofficient of friction goes up with temperature to a point and then drops off. Until they are in the sweet spot they make allot of noise.
Street pads on a race car would turn to dust or come apart in chunks, because of the heat. They would do the same thing on any good car chase you see in the movies.
Race pads are expensive and can cost more than the caliber itself. Their is allot of tech in the pad material and each company has specific formulas for specific applications. Their on secrete formula.
I've ran Hawks HPS in the past, and compared to the stuff you get from Advance, I am happy with the balance in performance/street manners. I'm pretty sure you can get them for the WilWood calipers, so that's probably what I'll run.
I've seen the staggered piston WWs before, and I may buy those (and just order the other parts of the kit- do you still offer the kit?) to avoid the tapering you mentioned. I don't think I'll beat on the brakes enough to enduce the tapering on the street, but I have been known to overheat the brakes I had before I swapped to Hawks and disk/disk and then the LS1 fronts.
Me wanting the WW is more a combination of show factor and wanting to make sure I've got reliable brakes once I do get the car on the track. I don't really think I need anything much more than the LS1 disks I have now, but I do plan to get the car on a road course for ish and giggles at some point.
__________________ KONIs I Eibach Pro-Kit I 36mm/24mm sway bars I Spohn: Adjustable PHB I Wonder Bar I SFCs Custom LCAs I LCARBs I J&M Products Camber/Caster plates I Hawk's Ceramic Pads I 4th Gen 3.23 Posi I LS1/LT1 Brakes
I have been very busy moving. Sorry for the delay in response.
I run the SL=6 piston calipers with staggered piston sizes so no pad taper here. Wilwood brake compounds are notorious for noise with daily street use. I took so backing plates down to Porterfeild and had them make me some pads for the WIlwoods in the RS-4 material and they worked good. Zero noise ever. I drove on them over two years and the ex is still on them today (3 1/2 years total) .Only thing I do not like about the RS-4 is they have a poor initial bite for just a tad hesitation then they come alive. Stop and go traffic is not fun with them, otherwise, they are fine even in normal slow speed around town use even if cold. You get use to the slight delayed grip (just like a 1/4sec at most and they are there firm but not to grabby).
The RS-4 compound feels alot like a preformace friction brake pad- I am not to fond of them. I do like Hawks better, but still not the greatest. However, with the binder power I have it really is a mute issue because I have such leverage and sweet spot even a bad pad on this car is good.
Dust seals missing are not a problem in sunny So. California. Would I duplicaste this setup again on another car? Without a doubt.
I really want to go to the large 14" Wilwood rotors and a massive STR calipers on my truck-BUT- then only reason I did not is because I am staying with the Z06 Vetruck theme I built it as so I am sticking with the factory Corvette Z06 6piston 6pad calipers but I am going with 2pc rotors. I like the wilwood much better, but the Z06 brakes will do me good enough as long as I am not using the crappy one direction factory Vette rotors.
Wilwood makes very good stuff. I like them mcuh better than Brembo dollar for dollar.
Performance Friction = downright scary, no initial bite. I picked up a set of SL6 calipers/rotors a few weeks ago and, although they are staggered pistons, the pads were badly tapered. I can assume they were used hard but the calipers themselves look very good, hardly any wear at all.
Even without the dust boots I would rely on the Wilwoods on a street car without hesitation. As Dean and others have mentioned, the power you will have will be a good enough reason to use them.
With input from another member, I have test fitted a SL6 caliper and a C5 rotor in a stock 16" Z28 wheel and it clears easily with no spacers. I may run this setup myself in place of my C4 HDs.
