Brake BoardLooking to upgrade or get the most out of what you have stock? All brake discussions go here!
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You don't need a bottom tap for the blind hole. The anchor plate bolts only go about 1/2" into the spindle, so you can drill down 5/8"-3/4" and use a standard tap. I just modified my spindles last night and this is how I did it. You'll need a 27/64 drill bit to drill out the holes, and they'll center themselves on the original dust shield bolt holes. Be sure to use plenty of cutting oil when drilling and tapping.
I have a Q for you. Who is "Dal" you mentioned in your post on Mar 8 at 9:52 PM? I take it they are a parts supplier but I 've never heard of them. Little help please.
Also, ANDYZ28 and JAYG, good luck with the upgrade! I'm anxious to get the results. Thanks!
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Ed Miller
Charlotte, NC
1991 RS,
bone stock driver;
1988 IROC L98
TPIS Fast Pack,MSD 6AL, Dynomax cat-back so far.
"Do you want to race or don't ya? I want to race." Dale Earnhardt
I have a Q for you. Who is "Dal" you mentioned in your post on Mar 8 at 9:52 PM? I take it they are a parts supplier but I 've never heard of them. Little help please.
Also, ANDYZ28 and JAYG, good luck with the upgrade! I'm anxious to get the results. Thanks!
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Ed Miller
Charlotte, NC
1991 RS,
bone stock driver;
1988 IROC L98
TPIS Fast Pack,MSD 6AL, Dynomax cat-back so far.
"Do you want to race or don't ya? I want to race." Dale Earnhardt
Those of you looking for GM 1LE stuff. Before you buy anything "by the part#". contact Bill Moats www.heritagech@aol.com He actually knows what he is talking abuot with this third gen stuff. I have nothing to gain by endorsing him. But he really has spent a lot of time in reasearching this relatively obscure 1LE stuff for me. 1-800-523-6137
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82Z 305 w/comp 270 magnum cam,holly.TH700R4 w/B&M holeshot 2000 converter,& megashifter.1LE front brakes, 9bolt 3.27 w/1LE rear brakes.Aluminum driveshaft,boxed rear susp.,IROC swaybar+wonderbar. 70mph@2200rpm ASE Master Tech plus L2
also recently obtained a
'69 chevelle SS396 w/Turbo 400,3.31 posi,11.0 to 1, headers,etc. Latest project car,'86 IROC stock 305TPI hit on left side,but not too bad
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ebmiller88: JUSTINS86BIRD,
I have a Q for you. Who is "Dal" you mentioned in your post on Mar 8 at 9:52 PM? I take it they are a parts supplier but I 've never heard of them. Little help please. </font>
Dal works at VanDevere Olds. His email is lockitup@bright.net His prices are very reasonable, and he only charges actual UPS rates.
Colt, Bill Moates is the parts manager for Heritage Chevrolet. I believe that the the www. is a web site. His email is; wmlmoates@aol.com He relly is a pretty cool guy. Fellow racer, etc. He even went to the trouble to get me an actual GM front "spring rate chart" by part#. I get all my GM stuff from him. Thanx,ANDYZ28
Ed, Remember me mentioning that Bill moates at Heritage Chevrolet has been a big help? Well he is the one that got it for me (us). It has more than one page ,so I will get the missing pages and post them for everyone. But! How do I do it? Scan them and? Or simply go the rather labor of reentring the entire text? I dunno' The chart is very,very, interesting though. Thanx,ANDYZ28
I spoke to Guldstrand on the phone yesterday. They said that they get quite a few calls about the 1LE caliper bracket. But that they no longer manufacture it, and have no plans to do so. As the original GM part is readily available for around $75.00 ea. Not worth their trouble really.
Hey,Justins86bird! You were right about the GM part# 18022602 bolt $14.56 ea. They have nothing to do with my 1LE upgrade. They are the long socket head bolts that attach the "stock" calipers. I have the correct bolts coming from Heritage Chevrolet. Thanks for pointing out the mistake dude.
I was in the final stages of my 1LE upgrade. I was installing the propotioning valve,and master cylinder. When it became clear to me that the brake line tube nuts and the ends of the lines are totally different. My '82Z28 lines are "inverted flare". The proportioning valve and master cylinder are definitly NOT! Now what? I am a truck tech. So this is something new to me. Do I need to change all the brake lines (which would really suck)? Or can I simply redo the ends? Does any body have any experience with this problem? Thanx,ANDYZ28 Now I am so near the end.But still so far away. DAMN!!
AndyZ28, Look at Bill Fong's upgrade article at this site http://www.isthq.com/967Edan/1LEbrake.html
(posted by matt_91rstpi 3/7/01 earlier in this thread)...he addresses the proportioning valve thread issue and this may help you out. Also, the pictures jayg posted from your upgrade are excellent. One Q though: He pictures two spindles next to each other, one very clean and one obviously used. Is the "clean" spindle new or one from a spare set that you reconditioned? And if modified, what tools did you use to modify it? Thanks....Ed
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Ed Miller
Charlotte, NC
1991 RS,
bone stock driver;
1988 IROC L98
TPIS Fast Pack,MSD 6AL, Dynomax cat-back so far.
"Do you want to race or don't ya? I want to race." Dale Earnhardt
SO!! At the end of a *%&$in winter oddessy. I finally got my car running, and out to road test my new 1LE brakes (with a quesy passenger). WOW!! From about 50mph I stood on them with all my might. The car stopped rather suddenly, without any wheel lockup,AT FIRST. Then after repeated attempts very acrid smoke began to roll from the front caripers. Then I finally got the right rear wheel to just barely lockup. It left no skid marks on the pavement. It's really kinda weird. Because the more I abused them. The faster I would stop. But without any REAL wheel lock. It would just go "OK he wants to stop". And theyb would just stop! We went from 120mph to Zero in 6.2 seconds,pedal down very hard.I still think that the pads need further work. But I am quite impressed. A dramatic improvement over the stock brakes.
Andy, can we get all of this together and summarize it? I'm willing to update the 1LE brake article on my website to include your pictures and part numbers... Since I'm going to be doing the 1LE front brake retrofit (FINALLY!) I'd like to pass on the information. You'd get the credit, just like Bill Fong---
Cheers,
Dan
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Daniel Burk http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html
'84 Trans Am WS6/L69
KB SFC, Moser axles, Torsen Diff. PST suspension, Braided stainless brake lines, Koni struts, 11-inch rear disks,Spohn Adj. torque arm,
Ported 305 heads w/1.94"intake valves, Comp Cams XE262H, Griffen alum. radiator,
Turbine Technologies 2500 stall converter, underdrive pulleys, Crane Hi-6 & more.
1.05g skidpad verified.
New best E/T! 14.039 at 100.82 MPH in 41 degree air at Stanton, Michigan.
Great idea, Dan. There's already 2 huge threads going on about this topic anyway. I think the prop. valve issue may still be in the air a little, but everything else is seems to be worked out. I will be getting my hands on a set of spindles this weekend to modify for my own upgrade coming this fall. Looking forward to seeing the results..
Does anyone sell slotted or drilled 1LE rotors? I know that would add to the cost, but they look so freakin cool behind some nice wheels. I'd be interested in a full parts listing, too. Thanks!
Dan, I will "again" provide a full parts list. The prop valve issue will be resolved as soon as I replace my master cyl. Thanx, guyz I still have a zillion photos that have not been posted. But those of you planning this "GM" conversion. Better hurry. The parts are running out fast.
So! I finally changed my master cyl from the '88 4 wheel disc brakes/back to the stock disc-drum master cyl. The change was a dramatic improvement in brake effect. So, as I said before "all the theory must be converted into rubber on the road". I will leave the disc/drum master cyl on the car. Before the master cyl change,I was unable to hold the car still at traffic lights (big cam) and apply any throttle. Now it does not move at all.
The result seems to be; use the stock disc/ drum master cyl. I will have to install a vaccuum can to help the booster out.
Anyway,another 1LE question answered by "rubber on the pavement".
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scott_92RS: Does anyone sell slotted or drilled 1LE rotors? I know that would add to the cost, but they look so freakin cool behind some nice wheels. I'd be interested in a full parts listing, too. Thanks!</font>
I have been following this (and other) threads regarding this conversion with great interest. I was wondering the same thing about slotted or cross drilled rotors. I plan to check availability from a couple companies, and I will post what I find. Another issue that hasn't been brought up is Cryogenic treating. This is a deep freeze process, that helps prevent warping, and adds to the rotor/pad life by huge precentages. One of the companies that does Cryogenic treating also sells slotted rotors. They will coat them for you too. They don't have any application info on their site- http://www.appliedrotortechnology.com , but it makes for good reading. I will contact them, get info on pricing, and apss it on, if there is any interest...
<IMG SRC=http://www.appliedrotortechnology.com/images/rotor.jpg>
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84 Z-28 H.O.
The only "car" I own!
[This message has been edited by N2TRUX (edited May 13, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by N2TRUX (edited May 14, 2001).]
Scroggins-Dickey Chevrolet advertises a "1LE upgrade kit" for an unbelievable $849.00. The kit consists of 2 drilled/slotted front rotors, and a set of front disc pads.
That alone would have more than doubled the price of my 1LE brake package installation.
It's just a little too pricy for me. Not to mention the fact that the use of drilled/ slotted rotors actually results in degraged brake performance (less surface area/ less mass etc.) But they do look cool!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ANDYZ28: Not to mention the fact that the use of drilled/ slotted rotors actually results in degraged brake performance (less surface area/ less mass etc.) But they do look cool!</font>
Actually for street use the slotted rotors work just fine.That is if they are just surface milled, and not slotted all the way through. Through slotting, or cross drilling can cause stress cracking in extreme duty use. Another problem with through slotting, or crossdrilling, is if you need to resurface the rotor, it can cause the lathe to chatter. Some places don't want to turn the rotors for you at all.
The advantage of surface slotting, is gas and dust removal. Your pads create gas from the glue used to bind the friction material together. It can actually create a gas pocket under the pad the prevents full or even contact with the rotor surface. The slotting pulls the gas from under the pad, allowing better surface contact. Everything I have stated applies to "extreme" use such as autocross, or police persuit situations, and probably does not apply to our spirited blast through the twisty backroads...
The set of drilled and surface slotted rotors I saw at the Super Chevy show here in Richmond were cool looking. But the total "swept area" of the rotor surface was reduced by 18%. So I figured that less area for the pads to contact, meant less brake force. But I am not any kind of engineer at all.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ANDYZ28: The total "swept area" of the rotor surface was reduced by 18%. So I figured that less area for the pads to contact, meant less brake force.</font>
That is correct, but the trade off is the ability to remove the gas, and dust. This creates a positive offset when the brakes start to heat up, and get to the point they would start to fade.
I have combined the best of both, on some of my trucks. I had the rotors surface slotted, but not drilled. This coupled with cryogenic treating has eleminated rotor warping. It doesn't look quit as cool as crossdrilled, but it's not as plain as stock.
I really appreciate your shareing all the results of your conversion. It has answered a lot of questions in my search for better brakes for my 84 Z-28.
Can you post a link to the most current parts page. I want to get what I need before they are all gone...
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84 Z-28 H.O.
The only "car" I own!
OK Andy, let me get this straight..You're using the 4 wheel disc proportioning valve with the disc/drum master cylinder? I think that's where you are at the moment. A little help here, just getting my sh*t in one sock..
I installed the master cyl from a 1986 Camaro w/disc drum brakes. I removed it myself. This in conjuction with the GM# 14089496 proportioning valve. I am afraid that I do not know what other applications this valve fits. But I will find out for you.
And as I said before! The stopping power of these brakes is unbelievable.
I much prefer the solid rotors to the drilled/slotted rotors. If they were so good you would see them on the race cars!!
This is very interesting I switched from drum rear to disc. and bought the new master cylinder to use on my upcomming 1le up grade but, It sounds like I should take it back and just leave the system the way it is but, the valve would be the only thing I question right now.
88 350 tpi formula, I have made a querry to GM to find out what other applications the proportioning valve 14089496 fits. I'll let you know. In the meantime,I see that you are a GM Tech. See if you can ask your parts dept to look up the stock proportioning valve for your car. I might be the same. Let me know.
Andy is correct in using the disc/drum master cylinder for his 1LE brakes. It is the same as the disc/disc m.c. for the '89 and later third-gens. Only the '88 and earlier disc/disc m.c. is different.
I will give him a list to check on like my mc, p-valve. he already verified that the rotors are not the same as a caprice's and that they can only be found on f-bodies 88-92 with 1-LE brakes as origanally thought.
as soon as I saw that the brackets were running out I had parts get them and charge them to my work account whew! I was happy to get them.
Well, Andy tried to warn us, and he was right! It looks like all the left side caliper carriers (10132829) are gone. I called Bill Moats today like he said. He wasn't available, but Sam was. He ran the numbers through the GM Trax system. He didn't show any of the numbers in short supply to be available. According to him, the brackets(18016034), and the right caliper carrier(10132830)will be available soon. The left one does not show a back in stock date.
I called a Houston dealer, and they put it through their local Trax system. It can't be found in the Houston area either. The only hope of finding these parts is call your local dealer and see if they have them in house.Unless their is another source that hasn't been discussed, it looks as if this game is over. Anyone have another source???
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84 Z-28 H.O.
The only "car" I own!
I hope the prior posts will help out a bit. Andy, I see you were right to go back to the disc/drum M/C (I.E. P/N 18014286). That's exactly what the manal calls for!! I'll have to change mine, too.
So! is the 14089496 propporioning valve a "service replacement" valve for '88 w/1LE?
I would reccomend to anyone who plans to do the 1LE upgade to all 4 wheels. To NOT change to master cly, or proportioning valve. But to drive the car first, and see how it performs. That's what I did. And I went back to the J50 (disc/drum) master cyl. With great success.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 88 350 tpi formula: that is just what I am doing I took back the master cylinder unused thank god! and ordered 14089496 combo valve. </font>
I would first drive the car without changing the proportioning valve. You will then see for yourself (rubber on the Rroad testing) how it performs. I suspect that it will be just fine.
Hey guys,I may actually have a line on a source for the letf caliper carrier (10132829). I actuall know someone who lives near Melbourne. And knows of PBR. I have also actually spoken to PBR on the phone. They are going to see if they can help me (us) out somehow. PBR manufactures the caliper carriers,and calipers. Then supplied them to GM.
I'll keep you all posted. I'ts a bit of good news anyway.
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you, Andy. I don't see different P/Ns for either a production or service proportioning valve (P/V) for the 88 year in the manual. It lists only "86-88 F J65.....14089497". However, if you look further down the list to the 1LE specific items, it lists P/N 10136840. That may cross reference to 14089496, I'm not sure. All these numbers are making me dizzy. When did the 1LE option appear? I don't know exactly. I thought it came out in 88, but the manual lists "89 J65, 1LE 2ND Design.." and then lists " So where's the FIRST design?? I'm confused. Anyhoo, I think you did right..hold it a second...
