You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
You got me real interested here, do you have any max HP numbers that both the GM and Motown blocks can take? Also this Motown block that these guys assemble is it all forged?
I use to have them on one of my old dead computers, but I cannot find them The production blocks were rated surprising low and the numbers came from GM own website. Try the GM Performance Parts website. Obviously they were promoting their "Bowtie" blocks which are also good blocks, but quite expensive and jsut a bare block.
The Motown 454 (and this is not their Hardcore Racing crate motor either) produces over 610 HP @ 6,400 rpm - and is dyno tested before they box it up and send it to you. I beleive every crate motor includes the dyno sheet of what the engine produced.
Considering the 454 is a REAL thin bore (4.250)" vs 4.125" for the 427, the 427 should be a little stronge yet. I just love the thought that the 427 CAN be bored out to 4.200 and become a 443. That means you can go safely go .075" over. I don't think you bore the 454 much more. They claim on the 427 with it bored to 4.200" there is still .250" between the cylinders. That means a 454 has only .200" left between each bore (now that's thin). I don't think it will be going ".060" over.
I like the idea that I can rebore my engine a few times and still use it. I also think you can increase the stroke a liitle more also and swap in 4 1/8" crank...but don't quote me on that one. The 4" crank is really getting close to the cam location and I think you may have to use a smaller base circle cam if you go over .550" lift (which most solid roller do). That's okay, on solid rollers, most of the real wild grinds are on small base circle cams anyway and you must go billet steel.
Hell, Comp Cam stopped producing "cast" solid roller cams just recently (maybe too many failures)? When my buddy ordred his solid roller last month, they told him that they no longer produce that grind in "cast" and he had to buy "billet steel". Based on some of the failures I've seen on Comp Cams, I now know why. It was only $75 bucks more. When you are dropping thousands of dollars, it doesn't pay to "cheap out" on some of the critical pieces.
And, to my knowledge the entire rotating assembly is forged. Here is a techcnial blurb on the completed crate motors. I would consider one of those, but I can swap on AFR 210s (their Motown 220s don't flow quite as nice) and a solid roller cam with a little more duration onto their shortblock for less money and make more power.
They use to provide ratings (now they give the purchaser their own personal dyno sheet). As I recall the 415 was rate 465-485 (depending if iron vs aluminum head) and the 427 was rated 505-530 (depending on which head you chose). And this was both a realtively small flat tappet cam in my opinion.
The only difference between the street crate and racing crate (besides the price) was higher compression 13.5:1 forged pistons and a bigger solid roller cam. There is "some difference" between the blocks too, but I have yet to see any technical differences other than splayed mains versus regular 4 bolt mains....but my eyes are bad. The engine was rated 675 HP.
I check it once in awhile but I guess the snow and winter get us thinking less about Camaros... not me mind you Every time I walk past my baby to get in the daily driver I... sniff sniff... sob sob
Just kidding but can anyone wait for spring. Its beem warm but I need to feel the speed again
Your not the only one... With this kind of weather we have been getting I look at it in the back, and ah man... I want to take it for a spin... But I don't... way to much sand on the roads...
Well.. I beg to differ.. looking at my new black paint.. last thing in the world I want is to look like it was sand blasted... (again)
Umm.. so your in Salmon Arm now.. . A good friend of Mine lives there. Drives a "Bright White" Dodge Ram Charger. I helped him do all the body work, and paint it.
Last edited by FastElectrics; 02-05-2005 at 06:45 PM.
Originally posted by Apeiron A little sand never hurt anything, I'm driving mine.
I wish it was just sand. Out here it's more like minus 3/4" crushed rock.
During winter, I stay pretty close to town, even with my beater car. If I have to go down to the Coast, I find it cheaper to just rent a car and put it on my Platnium Card (which carries it's own insurance). This way, if the windshield gets cracked, I don't spend $200 for the deductible.
The first year we moved to Kamloops in 2000, we were saving for a house and didn't have a beater car. I was forced to drive the GTA during winter and my hood took a total beating and needs to be completely repainted now.
Unfortuately, I won't be driving the GTA until I go down to my buddy's home in the US and pick up my parts (cam, timing set, etc). The timing chain needs to be changed badly (you can actually hear it slapping), but with 300,000+ kms, it owes me nothing.
BTW, how do you like Salmon Arm? If you ever get out to Kamloops, give me a shout.
Originally posted by Apeiron A little sand never hurt anything, I'm driving mine.
I wish it was just sand. Out here it's more like minus 3/4" crushed rock.
During winter, I stay pretty close to town, even with my beater car. If I have to go down to the Coast, I find it cheaper to just rent a car and put it on my Platnium Card (which carries it's own insurance). This way, if the windshield gets cracked, I don't spend $200 for the deductible.
The first year we moved to Kamloops in 2000, we were saving for a house and didn't have a beater car. I was forced to drive the GTA during winter and my hood took a total beating and needs to be completely repainted now.
Unfortuately, I won't be driving the GTA until I go down to my buddy's home in the US and pick up my parts (cam, timing set, etc). The timing chain needs to be changed badly (you can actually hear it slapping), but with 300,000+ kms, it owes me nothing.
BTW, how do you like Salmon Arm? If you ever get out to Kamloops, give me a shout.
If you saw my car you'd understand why I don't really care much about sand and gravel. I'm really only driving it because it's the only one of my cars that's actually in operational condition right now. My daily driver car is having ignition problems and I have to wait for the ground underneath my truck to dry up enough to put a new transfer case in.
I'm in Kamloops right now, actually. I'm here pretty much every weekend. Salmon Arm isn't so bad, it's considerably more tolerable than it was when I was working there a few years ago.
Here in Winfield, going to school at OUC North in Kelowna. There area a TON of 3rd gens in this part of the province! I just moved down from Prince Rupert in late August, I think there were less than 10 3rd gens in the whole city when I left
Anyhow, I've been chatting a bit on this board for about a year now (since I've owned my 91 Firechicken) and just wanted to give a shout out from Winfield to the rest of the BC members.
Oh, and anyone see a gorgious blue and red camaro in the area? I caught a glimpse of it a couple days ago... My *** it looked incredible.
As for my firechicken, it's in good health as of this afternoon when I installed a new TPS... I guess the old one wore out.
Just wondering if anyone from the BC interior would like to get together sometime this spring and race our third gens on a drag strip in the area. I only know of the one just out of Kelowna, near Big White. I havn't ever been to a strip before, so I'm not sure on the rules and such involved with renting it, safety measures etc. etc. just and idea....
I doubt I can break 15 seconds It would be fun though.
Thunder Mountain (the one near Big White) is local to Kelowna, which is good if you're in Kelowna, but it's only 1/8 mile and the altitude is terrible.
Better would be Ashcroft (about an hour west of Kamloops on the TCH) or Mission.
Originally posted by Apeiron Any time, with or without the car.
When do you think you may have that new cam in your car? I'm hoping to have mine all done by Easter Weekend (March 25-28). I am trying to get Keith to bring his solid roller 383 up to Ashcroft for some "test & tune" in early April, as well as tune my car.
Do you think you might be interested? (As well as anyone else?)
Originally posted by Glenn91L98GTA When do you think you may have that new cam in your car?
Maybe sometime in April the way things are going at work right now, we're trying to get a new build out into beta. The good news is I get lots of overtime to pay for it. I'll be available to tag along to Ashcroft any time you guys want to go, though.
good news.. looks like I'll have the car on the road a lot sooner.. The street sweepers have pretty much cleared off the roads.. so early April is looking good.. How far is Ashcroft?
If your idea of a nice drive is sticking to major routes and staying on a wide straight freeway most of the time, take the Phase III to Merritt and the Phase II to Kamloops, then you only have an hour on two lanes going west on the TCH through Savona and Cache Creek to Ashcroft.
If you want something narrower with a few more curves and probably more interesting scenery, take Hwy 97 North through Vernon to Kamloops, and then west on the TCH through Savona and Cache Creek to Ashcroft.
If you want to mix it up a bit, and probably the most direct routes are to start with the Phase III to Merritt. From there take either 97C through Lower Nicola to Logan Lake, or the Phase II to Logan Lake, and then to Ashcroft.
Driving times for each route are somewhat comparable, depending on traffic.
A slightly longer alternative, which I don't really care for, is to take Hwy 8 west from Merritt through Lower Nicola to Spences Bridge, and then take the TCH north to Ashcroft
I have not yet decided on the route.. but major routes are ok.. Actually I had thought of the spences bridge route..I've been that way before.. There might be a small possibility a friend with a 87 IROC might go to.. I've always liked the idea of traveling somewhere with a bunch of thirdgens..
is there anyone from the cariboo or north that might come to the Ashcroft thing... it would be cool to set a date and start organizing. Maybe some 4th 2nd and 1st gen cars could tag along and be envious of us
I am currently trying to get into contact with Ashcroft Drag Strip (Eagle Motorplex) and find out when they are available to allow us to run.
They currently only have the 2004 schedule posted on their website www.eaglemotorplex.com so I am e-mailing them for more info.
Also, I am going to start a post called "Drag Racing at Ashcroft BC 2005" post within this Board so we don't overwhelm this particular post (which is more for us Interior guys to introduce ourselves).
This way, if someone is going to Ashcroft at a particular date, they can post there and see if anyone else is going.
what chip.... The stock one? and I know the Dual Snokel and cat back doesn't improve it much at all... What I really would like to put on this thing is posi..
It was an XE268, but you'd have to measure to see how much lift is left. It's the perfect thing for you though, if you maybe had some papers you wanted to keep from blowing away in the breeze.
I'll even throw in the lifters, they'd make great egg cups, or maybe really small shot glasses.
Originally posted by FastElectrics What I really would like to put on this thing is posi..
Well, you should have picked up that complete 3.73 posi rear axle that I was selling. The only person interested was "Brisk", so I am now holding it for him. Just waiting for my brother to take his truck to go down the Coast and pick up from storage.
Originally posted by Apeiron ... It even has some lobes.
I don't think he is getting what you mean. Tony, the cam has a couple of "wiped out" lobes. Also, it's a flat tappet cam. You want a "roller cam".
Look for a used ZZ3/ZZ4 cam, there are plenty of those laying around. I wouldn't waste my time with an L98 cam. While it is bigger than your "peanut cam", for all the work you would have to install it; it just isn't worth the effort.
Gezzz.. what did you do to the poor think to wipe it out that bad.
Not sure if I'll ever bother with a cam swap though. I'm happy with L03 for now.. beleive it or not.. I'd prefer to stay with the 2.73 gears Glenn. Which is why I never inquired on it.
The production blocks were rated surprising low and the numbers came from GM own website. Try the GM Performance Parts website. Obviously they were promoting their "Bowtie" blocks which are also good blocks, but quite expensive and jsut a bare block.
Every time I walk past my baby to get in the daily driver I... sniff sniff... sob sob
Though while I'll not run my car on the strip.. I'll still go.. 
and I know the Dual Snokel and cat back doesn't improve it much at all... 
What I really would like to put on this thing is posi.. 
