Ive been looking into getting a new pair of subs for my car and i have seen some of the Flat Cone ones. I was just wondering what the difference is. I dont get why a flat cone would be better than a standard one. I dont have much cash, so im looking at some of the cheper drives, the flat cone im looking at is a DHD NTX-6812, and the standard one is a Volfenhag 12". Does anyone know anything about either of these subs? I have also been considering a pair of 15" Volfehag subs, but I dont think theres enough room in the back of a third gen camaro for the boxes (4 cu ft. each). Has anyone had success in putting 15"s in their third gen? thanks

how much money are you planning on spending. there are many low cost drivers that would beat the volfs or DHD.... no big benefits of flat vs regular cones either.

well, im thinking about $150 for a pair of subs. A pair of 12" Volfenhag's were about $150 after shipping. Im also looking at a set of 12" American Pro's for about the same price. I dont really know much about high end speakers, the last system i had in my old car was a pair of 15" JBLs', pair of 12" Pinoeers and some 6x9's. (obviously this wasnt in my camaro). I never really got into the comeptition scene so i dont know what all is out there. I just want something that can rattle my eye balls out of my skull, and fit in our tiny f-body trunks.

Oh, and all i want is the speakers, im gonna build custom boxes to fit in the little "trunk" in the back. Id like to get subs with small enough enclosers so that i can still take the T-tops off and put them back there too, but i dont know if thats physically possible.

Its really hard to decide on a sub when shopping online since you cant here it, and there are so many brands and models to choose from, but i cant really go to Best Buy or Ovation to hear most of these different subs, so are theyre any good ways to compare subs online. Are there any good critical specs to look for such as voice coil size, wattage, magnet weight, magnet composition.... and so on?

thanks for any help

well, $150 is kinda low for a pair of subs. at that price, "you get what you pay for". your best bet would be to get a single 12" (alpine type-r or adire audio shiva are great subs that can be gotten for under $130/each). they will sound really good and their output is pretty impressive. i bought a type-r with the idea of buying another down the road. so far, it sounds great and loud enough for me. its best to buy quality, not quantity. american pro, dhd, and volf arent that good at all. you'll be very satisfied with either of these options. some other brands to consider would be blueprint or e-designs.

cool, thanks, ill look into those

Forget about what style the cone is and buy what sounds best within your budget. There are a few flat cone subs out there that perform very well (such as Elemental Designs and the older PPI subs), and a whole bunch that just offer flat cones because people buy them.

If you're on a limited budget, forget about the gimick crap and concentrate on finding subs that give you a good value, such as Adire Shivas, JL W0s, or something similar. Since I assume your amplifier budget is limited too, concentrate on finding subs with a good sensitivity (although I still place sound quality as the most important qualifier) so that you can get the most out of a modestly powered amp.

The amp that i have is a Pyramid PB1845X. I dont know if Pyramid amps are supposed to be any good, but for $150 for 125 watts x 4 at 4 ohms, and less than 0.04 THD, i thought it sounded like a good deal. And i would like to get a pair of subs with dual voice coils so I can run them at 2 ohms so I can squeeze 200 watts per sub out of my amp. The amp says its 2 ohm stable, but are there any adverse concequences to running it like that?

Im also running an 8 guage power/ground setup cause its left over from my last (crappy) amp. I havent "installed" everything, such as running the wire through the firewall (right now, it just goes out of the engine compartment and into the passenger side door) or hidden all the wires or bolted anything down. But when I get some subs im gonna do all that, should I just go ahead and install a 4 guage setup?

is there any easy way to run the power wire through the firewall and into the car? without drilling a hole through the firewall?

If you're using a pyramid amp, definately find efficient subs.

As for power wire, you can probably find a way to get up to 8 AWG through the firewall, which is overkill for that pyramid amp anyway. 4 AWG or bigger is going to require a hole. In cars with a passenger-side battery, the kick panel is the best spot to bring it in.

how do you judge the efficiency of a sub?

check its rating. The sensitivy spec will be something like 92db 1w/1m. That means that at 1 watt, at a distance of 1 meter, the speaker is producing 92dB spl. Like every other spec, they tend not to be totally accurate or useful, but they can at least help you find the grossly inefficient stuff.

Generally the giant magnet, giant surround subs that can handle a billion watts and work in a tiny enclosure will not be very efficient. Standard subs, especially when in a larger enclosure, will have a higher sensitivity. Most JL subs have a higher than average sensitivity. For example, a JL 12W0 in a 1.5 cube enclosure will play much louder than just about any mega-watt 12" sub designed to work in a .5 cubic foot box when both of them are fed 100, 200, 300 watts.

Ah okay thanks. Well now im considering just getting a single 15" Alpine SWR-1541D Type-R which i can get shipped here for about $220 from, http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_...s.jsp?cid=1193 . I think it sounds like a pretty satisfying sub at a good price. Now i just want to figure out how big to make the encloser and what type. Ive got some experience building enclosers for my old system, but they were just simple sealed enclosers built do the mfg. specs. However this sub has the following encloser specs:

Sealed box volume: 1.3-2.5 cu-ft
ported box volume: 1.5-3 cu-ft

How should i choose how big to build it (assuming I can fit a 3 cu-ft box in my trunk), and what type, sealed or ported?

thanks again for your help!

if this is your first time building a box, i'd recommend going sealed. they are more forgiving if the box size isnt exactly the right size. there are plans on this board to make a box, cause i've posted it up within the last month or so. i think 1.5 cu ft would be good for that sub, but i'm sure someone else could give you a better idea. if you havent bought the sub yet, check out www.ikesound.com they are one of the best online places i've dealt with.

yeah, ive only built sealed boxes. I was just wondering what the difference is in the size of the encloser, like how a larger enclosure sounds compared to a smaller one with the same sub. And does it matter how deep the box goes? Like are you trying to create a resonence within the box to amplify the volume? or does that not really matter since low sound waves are very long (its been a while since physics)

oh man! im just bounc'n all over the place, now im looking at getting one Audiobahn ALUM15Q. But i guess im glad to be finding all sorts of options. Thanks for the link to ike-sound, they have tons of stuff and comments, which i think are helping. Everyone there seems to love audiobahn and the efficiency is at 96.4 db, which is the highest ive seen so far. Does anyone one here have an oppinion on these subs? plus theyre cheeper than the Alpines I was looking at!

eh, audiobahn isnt of the best quality. they are a brand thats more show than go. i'd stick with the alpine. you'll be very pleased with it

okay, cool. well i think ive narrowed it down to that alpine 15" the. thanks for all the help!

does it really matter what type of cone the sub has?

When it boils down to it, it alls ends up being personal opinion. I hear a lot of people here really pushing the really expensive equipment out there. Alpine, Fosgate, etc. I know a lot of people here rip on Pyramid but I have a friend that swears by it. I give him a hard time about it all the time but to tell the truth, his two 12" Super Blues sound great. He builds great boxes and I think that makes the difference. Personally, if you are on a budget, I wouldn't try and buy the most expensive equipment that you can. Buy some equipment that you can afford and put some time and effort in how you install it. There is just too much hype about all the overpriced equipment out there. IMHO.

Size does matter. A larger enclosure will allow you to get a flatter response, allowing you to get better low end. A smaller enclosure will keep the sound tight and a little punchier. It really depends on what kind of music you like. My enclosure was built to about .65 cu ft. because I listen to a lot of rock music and like a good kick drum sound. My brother on the other hand likes to listen to rap, if soley for the free back massage. So I built his box well above the minium airspace. His car has a louder bass response. And to put it in perspective, I'm running a JBL 600.1 and a pair of alpine 10" type-s and he's got a sony explode 760W 4 channel amp and 2 10" xplode subs. Based solely on the components you would think mine would be louder. But the box designs add a lot to it.

In terms of the science, you're after a sealed volume of air. The sub will cause the pressure inside the box to rise and fall with its movement. This change in pressure helps the sub operate more efficently. When the sub pushes out, the pressure in the box drops. When the sub starts to go back down, the equalization of pressure helps to pull it back. That's why a smaller enclosure sounds "punchier" because the pressure difference is higher than with a larger enclosure. A larger enclosure sounds smoother because the ratio is lower, so there isn't as much energy trying to force the sub in and out.

Hope that answers your question.

the pass side door on my 89 rubbs my 4 gauge wire when the door is open all the way, and it goes through the first hole there is. you just need to be carfull about the clearance. it would suck to open your door after the install and bend the lip of the door

thanks
anthony

where are you running the wire so that the door interferes with it? If you run it through the kick panel near the antenna, it won't be anywhere close to the door.

i really hope you didnt run it through the door jamb. please tell me you made a hole to run it through... i hate when people take the lazy way out (hopefully you didnt)

so true how unprofessional is that!?

it is hard to explane without a pic, but i will try. it is run along withthe tpi harness that goes through the fender and into the engine compartment. it follows it all the way to the outside of the kick panel, were it goes inside though anouther gromete by the tpi harness cannector. i will try and get a pic in the next couple of days.

thanks
anthony

yes please do get a pic now is it being run down the passenger side or the driver side mine is down the driver side but through the hole in the fire wall.

I finally seen some flat coned subs, they were cadence subs, they look pimp. THey look like they would be stock speakers, but they're 12 to 15 inches around .

here is a pic of the wire. i guess the wire goes inside through the areah of the door gromet.

okay, well i guess i didnt bother getting the 15" alpine because over spring break my room mates brother said he had a pair of 12" alpine type e's he wanted to sell for $100 with a ported box. The box is kinda crap, but the subs still hit pretty damn hard. I think ill build a set of sealed enclosers to go in the trunk though. And thanks, joezero for the good post about enclosure size. I listen to mainly rock and punk so smaller enclosures it is, plus that makes it easier to install them in that tiny trunk of ours.