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02-17-2005, 07:44 AM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 1,713
Car: 89 IROC-Z Engine: 355 TPI Transmission: 700R4 | Quote: Originally posted by crazycamaro83 mtx thunder amp with a fosgate cap. so when its all done ill swap that in. but yeah for sure lightning audion isnt worth nothing. | FYI: Lightning audio is made by Rockford. They are the same as Rockford on the inside. Just cheaper, that's it.
__________________ Now I HAVE_A_Z
89 IROC 350 TPI
98 S10 ZR2
86 H-D Sportster 
"My favorite color is the radio..."
"The voices agree with me!"
Friends don't let friends install car stereos. |
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02-17-2005, 09:34 AM
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#52 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | that's pretty funny... I wouldn't buy either brand
does lightning audio make anything worth putting in a car? cap, amps, or speakers? |
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02-17-2005, 09:59 AM
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#53 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,959
Car: '85 Z28 Engine: LG4 Transmission: T5 Axle/Gears: 3.23 | isnt a 1 farad capacitor a 1 farad capacitor? I mean how can one brand be better than another? |
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02-17-2005, 12:49 PM
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#54 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | well I'm no expert, but couldn't even if both capacitors hold the same amount of energy, one could be more efficient at charging itself up, and others may maintain charges better... I think that's sorta related to ESR... maybe not. plus some can possibly be drained faster than others... those are the only 3 factors I can think of, other than longevity of the capacitor itself. |
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02-17-2005, 12:50 PM
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#55 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Chandler, AZ - Formerly Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,122
Car: 92 RS, 00 Dakota w/ Blown 5.9, 73 Porsche 914 | 1 12volt battery is the same as another 12v battery.....
doesnt quite fit does it? --- same with caps |
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02-17-2005, 01:29 PM
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#56 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 1,713
Car: 89 IROC-Z Engine: 355 TPI Transmission: 700R4 | The only thing that is different is the labeling, I've talked with the RF engineers about this. They are the same except for labeling.... |
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02-17-2005, 02:02 PM
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#57 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | so might as well go get the 2 farad caps from walmart, right  |
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02-17-2005, 03:05 PM
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#58 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,959
Car: '85 Z28 Engine: LG4 Transmission: T5 Axle/Gears: 3.23 | Quote: Originally posted by ScrapMaker well I'm no expert, but couldn't even if both capacitors hold the same amount of energy, one could be more efficient at charging itself up | i don't think capacitors of the same value have varying efficiencies. Capitors fully charge after 5 time constants, which is determined by the resistance of the circuit and the capacitance. |
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02-17-2005, 03:22 PM
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#59 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | I mean, two 1.0 farad capacitors can have different efficiencies.. |
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02-17-2005, 03:49 PM
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#60 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 789
Car: 87 Black Formula Engine: Rollercammed Lg4 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: 3.23 10 Bolt Locker | Where do you guys buy matching carpet to use on the sub boxes? I have the standard light gray, havent seen that anywhere. |
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02-17-2005, 05:19 PM
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#61 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | audio shops have it all the time... but check some of the sponsor links at the top, since they would most likely have carpet that will match our cars. |
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02-17-2005, 05:25 PM
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#62 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Chandler, AZ - Formerly Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,122
Car: 92 RS, 00 Dakota w/ Blown 5.9, 73 Porsche 914 | http://www.audiooutfitter.com/store/...ml?id=irfxebWq
we used to sell these at my families shop
True, as with many components, some are the same with different labeling... but also true, levels of design and craftmanship and quality of parts on ANY electronic device is going to make them different. They are not all the same. |
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02-17-2005, 05:33 PM
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#63 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | is a 15,000watt system even feasable?
15,000watts/12volts = 1250amps... hrm
that's the only time you'd need a 15 farad capacitor
you'd only need 15 batteries, 15 alternators, and 1/0 wiring all around
I think those big caps are a gimmick, because you can get some 15 farad caps for the price of a 2 farad... some..how... |
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02-17-2005, 06:36 PM
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#64 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Chandler, AZ - Formerly Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,122
Car: 92 RS, 00 Dakota w/ Blown 5.9, 73 Porsche 914 | It's just over-built... they dont even make them anymore. Not a gimmick. It's just goverment technology passed down
History of the company... http://www.alumapro.com/rvn4.html
Last edited by snflupigus : 02-17-2005 at 06:38 PM.
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02-18-2005, 09:19 AM
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#65 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 1,713
Car: 89 IROC-Z Engine: 355 TPI Transmission: 700R4 | Those square or other odd shaped caps typically have horrible ESR ratings and degrade rapidly. I didn’t see an ESR value list (no shock) and in two years it will be higher then whatever it is.
And with the Rockford/Lightning being the same. Take one of each for the same year and similar specs apart and look. Same thing. As in no different.
I will eat crow in that this was the case 4 years ago and according to the engineer at RF they still are. |
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02-18-2005, 09:22 AM
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#66 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | RF engineer is the Rockford Fosgate engineer?
and yeah, I don't see the benefit of at 15 farad cap if its going to lower your output voltage. |
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02-18-2005, 09:34 AM
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#67 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 1,713
Car: 89 IROC-Z Engine: 355 TPI Transmission: 700R4 | It will not lower the out put voltage. In the other post the voltage drop I was referring to is internal to the cap.
And yes, RF=Rockford |
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02-18-2005, 09:37 AM
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#68 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | okay so if the voltage drop is on the inside of the capacitor, what difference can you see on the output of the capacitor? The output difference of a crappy esr, and a good esr?
does the esr basically deal with "current over time"? So the better the esr is, the more current can flow out faster? because the resistance is lower internally? |
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02-20-2005, 07:40 AM
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#69 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Rochester
Posts: 190
Car: 91 Camaro RS Engine: 3.1L V6 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: Stock 3.23 open diff | |
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02-20-2005, 08:55 AM
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#70 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Huber Heights, OH
Posts: 3,443
Car: 00 TA, 91 Formula, 89 RS Engine: LS1 / 305 / 2.8, respectively Transmission: T-56 / auto / auto | ^ That's pretty nice!
__________________
2000 Trans Am
1991 Formula
1989 Camaro RS |
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02-22-2005, 12:08 AM
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#71 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 263
Car: 86 Camaro Engine: 2.8L MPFI Transmission: 700-R4 | I think he likes JL's stuff |
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02-22-2005, 07:35 AM
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#72 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 1,713
Car: 89 IROC-Z Engine: 355 TPI Transmission: 700R4 | Good color match on the JL. I'd like to see the wires hidden. But other then that vary nice. Adds some splash with out being over the top.
We're way off topic with all this ERS stuff, but it's started so...
It effects how long it take the cap to change and how fast it discharges. If you run the math for time constants and keep in mind that the cap is only need at base "hits" which are fast you'll see how bad it can get. Also remember that an amp (or amps) that pull 80A (not uncommon) are a load of 0.15 ohm. That makes an ESR of 0.015 ohm a big concern. There's also ESL, not really a concern here, just mixing it up.  |
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02-22-2005, 07:55 AM
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#73 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Texas
Posts: 220
Car: 1986 Firebird Engine: 305 TPI |
Last edited by BlackMagic : 02-22-2005 at 07:59 AM.
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02-22-2005, 08:03 AM
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#74 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 1,713
Car: 89 IROC-Z Engine: 355 TPI Transmission: 700R4 | I seen that in another post. I really like that. Just something as simple as some angles really sets the box off. Though I'm not a fan of mounting the amp to the box, for reliability of the amp. You may consider using some foam under the new amp. |
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02-22-2005, 09:32 AM
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#75 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | if the box is well constructed, it shouldn't vibrate much, right? That's the whole point of making a nice, thick box. The speakers and your brains are the only things that are supposed to be rattling.
I've seen some boxes with plexiglass windows and they vibrate too much, which can cause the amp to fail... |
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02-22-2005, 11:05 AM
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#76 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 1,713
Car: 89 IROC-Z Engine: 355 TPI Transmission: 700R4 | The box may not flex, but it still vibrates. That's the problem. |
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02-22-2005, 03:28 PM
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#77 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,281
Car: 2000 Trans Am WS6 (Black) Engine: LS1 Transmission: 4L60E | either way you're right about mounting it right on the box... even though I've seen this done many times, I wouldn't personally do this, that is, unless absolutely necessary. |
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02-22-2005, 07:56 PM
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#78 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Chandler, AZ - Formerly Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,122
Car: 92 RS, 00 Dakota w/ Blown 5.9, 73 Porsche 914 | everything vibrates... a well built box just doesnt resonate. |
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02-22-2005, 08:02 PM
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#79 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Texas
Posts: 220
Car: 1986 Firebird Engine: 305 TPI | trust me i have thought about everything that yall have brought up, but it is built like this for a purpose. When i was designing the box, i wanted something that i could take out easily for the special track days. With the way that i built the box with the well it currently slides out easily, and disconnects quickly, and even goes back in easier. So thats why the amp is connected. |
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02-22-2005, 09:27 PM
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#80 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kissimmee, FL
Posts: 1,925
Car: 1991 Camaro RS Engine: 357cid Transmission: T5 Swap Axle/Gears: 10bolt 7.5" 3.23 soon to be 3.73 | im glassing mine but im making sure i can take it out if i need to.....and if im gunna race im just gunna make sure i have the HP and TQ to overcome any extra weight.
i have a daily driver, almost never racer so comfort is first
__________________ -Alex
"It's a Chevy... If it ain't smokin, you're walkin."  | | | |