WTF?! ANOTHER alternator fried?! - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Maverick H1L · 05-28-2009, 05:21 PM

Okay, today my SECOND alternator in the last 3 years got fried, really good this time. So good, in fact, that smoke was pouring out from the front housing (good thing I only had a half mile to drive home

). This isn't the first time this happened. I had to replace the previous alternator back in October of 06, figuring that it was of a correct size but was a POS to start with (I STILL can't believe I got hosed $400 for that damn alternator and even crappier battery!), not knowing it would happen again. I don't even know if the store is going to honor their Lifetime warranty without the receipt I no longer have...

I've been running the system that's in my sig, a 700W amp that runs off of a 4ga wire from my 720 CCA battery. I upgraded the Big 3 wires with 8 gauge a couple of weeks ago.
Should I be running an alt somewhat bigger than 105 amps? I REALLY don't want to have to keep doing this every year to 2 years, any more than I do my ignition module.

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8t2 z-chev · 05-28-2009, 11:16 PM

I heard of that problem on a '92 lumina with the 3.1
car went through 3 alternators in less than 1 year,some
did blow sparks and smoke-cause of the trouble was
a cracked coil(coil pack ignition on the lumina) that
sometimes arc to the coil's ignition supply,when it did
the alternator's voltage regulator would fail-problem
stopped when the bad coil was replaced.Suprizingly
no other electronics were damaged.

transam85dudeman · 05-29-2009, 02:12 AM

hey man, you need a high output alternator dude. i had the ultimate system. i ran with a 200amp alternator by power master, and something called a battcap. its a battery/capacitor. it can start your car and run your head lights for 12 hours. its that bad ***. i suggest running fatter wire, better terminals for the battery and have the battcap installed(220) with a higher amperage alternator, you're looking at a 25 percent increase in gain. oh ya. i imagine. if you want to go big? run too batteries (optima yellow top) in parallel, and hold on to your seat....haha

Maverick H1L · 05-29-2009, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transam85dudeman

hey man, you need a high output alternator dude. i had the ultimate system. i ran with a 200amp alternator by power master, and something called a battcap. its a battery/capacitor. it can start your car and run your head lights for 12 hours. its that bad ***. i suggest running fatter wire, better terminals for the battery and have the battcap installed(220) with a higher amperage alternator, you're looking at a 25 percent increase in gain. oh ya. i imagine. if you want to go big? run too batteries (optima yellow top) in parallel, and hold on to your seat....haha

I've heard of and even thought of getting a battcap... They're insanely expensive for what little you get out of them. I'm not going any bigger than what I have as I have too many rattles as it is. And, actually, I have a piece of 4 ga running into the inline fuse holder for the amp (60A fuse) with 3 ga running to the back of the car, where it is split in a terminal block (for the 340W amp I'm running the subs now with AND the 700W, but I only have the one connected for now as I need to run a lot more speaker wire to the left side speakers) to short pieces of 8 ga. All of this was professionally installed at pretty much the same time back in '06. I'm hoping that a 140A alternator will do the job as I don't plan on anything bigger (and it's not a 2000W amp, for crying out loud... I know of cars that have alternators the same size as mine that don't have any problems handling bigger amps).

Maverick H1L · 05-29-2009, 08:02 PM

Well, I decided to go ahead and do some digging since I'm about 99% sure that Advance isn't going to honor their warranty anyways. I found that I need a new rectifier bridge... One of the diodes is blown. I'm going to go ahead and do some poking around to see if I can't find some sort of a decent upgrade kit for a decent price.

ClickClickVroom · 05-31-2009, 12:39 AM

alt wise, you can get a remany 140 amp that fits our cars for sub 100. I went that route and haven't had any issues.

HCR13 · 05-31-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClickClickVroom

alt wise, you can get a remany 140 amp that fits our cars for sub 100. I went that route and haven't had any issues.

x2

get a CS144 alternator from the junkyard...140amps from the factory...

ClickClickVroom · 05-31-2009, 12:12 PM

don't you needa new mounting bracket for the CS144? the ones I'm talking about mount as a CS130

HCR13 · 06-02-2009, 01:11 AM

I made mine work with the stock brackets...

Bazookajoe254 · 06-02-2009, 01:32 AM

I had that same problem but mine blew more frequently. I'm running a 1600W amp, though. I blew two in a year, so I'm on my third. Luckily, advanced gave me a replacement every time. VERY luckily. If it happens again, I'll definitely be going to a higher output alternator. I plan on upgrading all of my necessary wiring soon., just learned about "The Big Three" upgrade

1A Dan · 06-02-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HCR13

x2

get a CS144 alternator from the junkyard...140amps from the factory...

any idea what vehicles these came in stock? what did you have to do to get this to work on the factory mounts? Always up for news of a cheap(er) upgrade.

88TransAmFreak · 06-02-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HCR13

x2

get a CS144 alternator from the junkyard...140amps from the factory...

I bought the oem bracket to mount that new off ebay for around $35 shipped

HCR13 · 06-02-2009, 12:49 PM

It comes in these cars so you can ask for it at the parts store or look for it at the junkyard...
(1994-96) Buick Roadmaster 5.7L
(1993-96) Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (RWD) 5.7L
(1993-96) Chevrolet Caprice 4.3L, 5.7L
(1995-96) Chevrolet Impala 5.7L
(1992-95) Chevrolet Lumina APV Van 3.8L
(1992-95) Oldsmobile Silhouette 3.8L
(1992-95) Pontiac Trans Sport 3.8L
AC Delco part 10463338.

All I had to do is loosen up the top bracket to "eyeball" where the alternator goes then tighten the bracket then install the alt. My alternator is on the passenger side of the engine...

1A Dan · 06-02-2009, 05:19 PM

thanks for the info. my TA is also an 87, so I've got it on the passenger side as well. Since it seems like a more adjustable bracket than the 88+ serpentine, it looks like theres more room for play with different styles.

HCR13 · 06-02-2009, 11:17 PM

there is. I think the top bracket has to bolting points (besides the one that bolts the alternator). I think the upper point on the intake had to be loosened or put spacers, I can't recall. Thats all I did, bolted the alternator and then tightened everything up and its been working great ever since. I just came back from a 800mile trip with 0 problems...

Dboy3000 · 06-06-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L

Okay, today my SECOND alternator in the last 3 years got fried, really good this time. So good, in fact, that smoke was pouring out from the front housing (good thing I only had a half mile to drive home

). This isn't the first time this happened. I had to replace the previous alternator back in October of 06, figuring that it was of a correct size but was a POS to start with (I STILL can't believe I got hosed $400 for that damn alternator and even crappier battery!), not knowing it would happen again. I don't even know if the store is going to honor their Lifetime warranty without the receipt I no longer have...

I've been running the system that's in my sig, a 700W amp that runs off of a 4ga wire from my 720 CCA battery. I upgraded the Big 3 wires with 8 gauge a couple of weeks ago.
Should I be running an alt somewhat bigger than 105 amps? I REALLY don't want to have to keep doing this every year to 2 years, any more than I do my ignition module.

Dude I have been doing car installs for the last 3 years and have seen this problem just about a million times. What u need is a capacitor! A capacitor gives your subs/amps/speakers constant power and saves your alternator. If u use 1 or 2 that should really help out and u should not have to change your alternator as much. Hope that helps out

ClickClickVroom · 06-06-2009, 11:43 AM

A cap only provides capacity, and will drain itself putting the strain right back on the alternator. It's great if you like to listen to a song, drain your cap, and then turn down the volume so your headlights work.

The cap just buys you a little time, you need an alternator that can power everything without saving up, otherwise you'll end up draining your battery and cap.

88TransAmFreak · 06-06-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L

Well, I decided to go ahead and do some digging since I'm about 99% sure that Advance isn't going to honor their warranty anyways. I found that I need a new rectifier bridge... One of the diodes is blown. I'm going to go ahead and do some poking around to see if I can't find some sort of a decent upgrade kit for a decent price.

Doubt your stereo fried your alternator, if you made it three years on the same alternator you done good. People don't realize that misaligned pullies, bad belts, bad batteries, heat can cause alternators to fail as well.

Quoted from aa1car.com:

ALTERNATOR DIODE FAILURES

One of the most common causes of charging problems is the failure of one or more diodes in the alternator. Alternators have six diodes (three negative and three positive) that convert the alternating current (AC) to direct current (DC). They are called a diode trio because each negative diode is paired with a positive diode.

When the engine is running, charging current from the alternator flows through the diode trio via the BAT (B+) connection on the back of the alternator. A little current also flows through the charging light indicator circuit. On GM alternators, the indicator light circuit is terminal 1. On European alternators, the indicator light circuit is usually called 61 or D+. On Asian alternators, it is usually labeled L. This terminal leads to the ground side of the alternator warning light. When the alternator is charging, the diode trio supplies voltage to the ground side of the indicator light. This offsets the battery voltage applied to the positive side of the light, causing the light to go out once the engine starts. If the alternator stops charging, current flows though the light circuit from the positive side causing the charging system warning light to come on.

If one of the diodes fails, it may cause the charging system indicator light to glow dimly. If two or more diodes fail, the light will get brighter. At the same time, the feedback current from the diode trio will reduce the alternators ability to produce current. So the more diodes that fail, the less power the alternator will generate.

A bad connection or open circuit between the alternator output terminal and the positive battery terminal will force the charging current to follow a parallel route through the diode trio and out of the alternator. This heavier than normal current flow through the diodes will cause them to overheat and fail. Consequently, if you have replaced an alternator before because of bad diodes, and the replacement fails for the same reason, there is likely a bad connection or open circuit between the alternator BAT (B+) terminal and the positive side of the battery circuit. Do a voltage drop test to check the entire circuit.

88TransAmFreak · 06-06-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dboy3000

Dude I have been doing car installs for the last 3 years and have seen this problem just about a million times. What u need is a capacitor! A capacitor gives your subs/amps/speakers constant power and saves your alternator. If u use 1 or 2 that should really help out and u should not have to change your alternator as much. Hope that helps out

Be careful....I don't know about this site, but if you mention "cap" in a car audio thread, the thread usually starts a good/bad war and goes south

FWIW I have about 600 watts going through a kicker system, stinger 1.0 Farad cap, stock alternator and battery, and no big three upgrade and my stereo works fine.....no problems whatsoever. Do I need the cap, probaly not but I had it lying around so I used it (it's about 5 years old)

80schild · 06-06-2009, 12:42 PM

Has anyone noticed that long periods of idling will burn an alternator up? I'm assuming the fins on the alternator aren't spinning fast enough to move enough air.

HCR13 · 06-06-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88TransAmFreak

Be careful....I don't know about this site, but if you mention "cap" in a car audio thread, the thread usually starts a good/bad war and goes south

FWIW I have about 600 watts going through a kicker system, stinger 1.0 Farad cap, stock alternator and battery, and no big three upgrade and my stereo works fine.....no problems whatsoever. Do I need the cap, probaly not but I had it lying around so I used it (it's about 5 years old)

I'm currently running 12 speakers in my car. 4 speakers powered by the head unit, 2 12inch 1000w Kicker subs powered by a 1000w amp, and 6 smaller speakers powered by a 600w amp. No cap here.

rideon1200 · 06-06-2009, 08:53 PM

I dont think you need a recieot at advance, they have it on there computer. Take it back and see what happens. I have taken batteries back and didnt have reciept and had no problems.

arrowcamaro · 06-07-2009, 08:28 AM

Stop buying the cheap replacement alt with the lifetime warranty. Spend the money and get a good quality one and you wont be replacing it every 18 months.

Maverick H1L · 06-25-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowcamaro

Stop buying the cheap replacement alt with the lifetime warranty. Spend the money and get a good quality one and you wont be replacing it every 18 months.

Hate to tell you this, bub, but there really isn't much of a difference between the Lifetime alternator and the other one they offer (yes, there seems to only be 2 that are CS units) which only has a 1-year warranty. The only differences are the price ($120 without the core for the 1-year and $100 for the lifetime) and the part number. They're BOTH rebuilt. I've had the one without the lifetime warranty and that one crapped out even sooner (remember I said I had to replace one back in 2004, the $400 one? That was it. It lasted about seven months due to a blown fuse and some hack job with rewiring the coolant fan that I have since rewired correctly).
And as for the rest, I haven't exactly had the $400+ for a "performance" alternator. Heck, I had to pay for the sound system and my $1200 trans swap parts in six steps. It's real tough to get expensive stuff working just over minimum wage and having to pay for school, you know. Besides, the one that was in the car when I bought it was an 85 amp unit that suffered a broken front housing before it went for the original replacement, and these I have been getting are 105 amp units.

Now, if I remember what I learned in Electrical class correctly, diodes are supposed to have Low or NO resistance in one direction and either Extremely HIGH or Infinite resistance in the other. So, why is my alternator STILL putting out an AC voltage spike with my NEW diode cluster and killing my ignition module? Because the diode set all has infinite resistance one way and between 8 and 10 Megaohm resistance the other, maybe?
IIRC, that ain't right, and I have to call the store and let them know they sent a bad rectifier, and have them take another 2 weeks to send the damn thing?

arrowcamaro · 06-26-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L

I've had the one without the lifetime warranty and that one crapped out even sooner (remember I said I had to replace one back in 2004, the $400 one? That was it. It lasted about seven months due to a blown fuse and some hack job with rewiring the coolant fan that I have since rewired correctly).

I fail to see how thats the alternator's fault.

Fix all the backwoods wiring and get a good alternator.

transam85dudeman · 06-26-2009, 11:50 PM

id get a power master high output alternator, a 4gauge wire, and a batt cap. its a battery/capacitor in one, its the best

dstss · 06-27-2009, 12:49 AM

Regarding the differant warrenties and quality levels. 1yr warrenty parts are usually "rebuilt". Lifetime parts are usually "remanufactured". The differance is a rebuilt alternator is an core that has had the necessary worn parts replaced, but it varies from unit to unit. Remanufactured parts will have a set list of new parts installed, with some remanufacturers only reusing the case. It is possible to get brand new units also. Autozone sells their Gold line which is new. I think Pep has a line of new electrical also, but I'm not certain. Sometimes you do actually get what you pay for.
Also CS units in the 80s and 90s had notoriously small bushings that will fry under a heavy load. You can get one that last for years, or have it go bad the first time you try to run it with a dead battery.