92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I'm hoping I can get some good suggestions on improving my audio setup for driving with the T-tops off. I currently have a pair of Fosgate 4x6's in the dash with Pioneer 6x9's in the sail panels. I don't remember the model numbers off the top of my head, but can get them if needed. The Pioneers are running off a 220 watt amp, the Fosgates are powered by my Pioneer headunit(35w x 4). My problem is that when driving with the tops off, I can barely hear the front speakers, and even on the rears only the mid and low bass are really audible. I thought about adding a small amp for the front speakers, and even picked one up at a swap meet for cheap, but its not much more powerful than the headunit. I'd prefer to keep the speakers in the stock locations, but am open to adding a set of tweeters if that's what is needed. I do plan on adding a sub back at some point as the Pioneers are lacking on the really deep bass, which I know is normal given their size. I have a 12" sub I used to keep in the well, but my amp for it died and I was in the way all the time. I am considering putting a small bass tube under the storage area on the driver's side of the trunk. I like just about everything but country, but mostly listen to rock, rap, metal, pop, and EDM.

If you've made it through that novel, I'd appreciate any suggestions you can throw at me.

oaklandfuelman

more power!!!!! sounds like your 6x9s are about where they need to be unless they are the 450 watt pioneers the dash speakers run by the head unit 35 watts rated max power is about 8-10 wats rms so its basicly nothing your gonna need about 30 watts rms for those or upgrade to a higher rated pair of infinity - polk or jbl then put about 60 watts rms to them puting the sub back in the trunk will help alot also if you get a sub amp with remote bass control then you can tune it with the sub turned up on the remote & take the bass down & mid & highs up on the head unit so you can play at higher volume without causing distortion in the 4x6 & 6x9 speakers i would say get a 5 channel amp & run eveything off it & solve your high & low pass & remote bass control in one step but you already have the amp for you 6x9s might want to compare price though vs buying two smaller amps i would go 5 channel if it was even close to the same $$

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I don't think you'll ever get decent sound out of the front speakers without some kind of modification. I ordered up a set of Infinities and had to go with the special shallow version that's required to fit in the stock location. Then the stereo I had at the time malfunctioned and blew one out before I could turn it down.
I was going to look into modifying the brackets and the area underneath to fit something more appropriate.

Other than that I would go with some 6” kick panel speakers. Get a couple of extra plastics from the junk yard and go from there.

IMO, Pioneers are ok for sound but really excel in taking abuse from an ok head unit and amplifier.
If you want something to punch through the wind you might want to consider spending some money on a higher end amp, crossovers, 6x9's, and a couple of 6” for the front. More expensive speakers are sometimes more sensitive to distortion that the Pioneers are more able to accept, but they can put out louder, cleaner, sound if they are set up correctly.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I still have the low pass crossover for the sub, so that's not a problem if I get another amp for it. I think I might even be able to bridge my current amp to run the sub and the 6x9s, I can't remember. I was thinking of getting a powered bass tube though to replace the big sub I have.

I'm also not sure if I can put an amp for the front speakers in the trunk. The interior is out right now, so running the wires isn't an issue, I just am not sure about that long of a wire run causing problems. I already have all the wiring there for the current amp, so I can just splice the other one in.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I'm really hoping to avoid speakers in the kick panels. Since my car is a stick, I'm afraid of the drivers side speaker getting in my way. Kick panels are plentiful at the junkyards near me though, so I may pick up a set next time I'm there just in case. I also wasnt sure how much I'd be able to hear them since they are essentially on the floor. Do I need to aim them up, or will flush mounting them work?

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

That is the problem with them is that they tend to produce higher frequencies that get muffled easily. You can try aiming them up, possibly half way recess them or something? The benefit is being able to return it to stock later on vs. mounting them in the doors.

It depends on how much room there is behind the speaker too. A lot of the sound depends on the area behind the speaker and some speakers are designed with that in mind.

Could consider A-Pillars for just tweeters as well, I've never gone that route though.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I'm honestly not that familiar with tweeters, so I'm to sure they would give me what I'm looking for. Will they help with the vocals in the music, or is their range too high for that?

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

No, they're more for the upper range. But they're small and can put part of the sound up higher that otherwise would be muffled down below.
They're basically the smaller speakers on the inside of a common 2 way or 3 way 6x9, or 6."

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

That's what I was thinking they were for. I hadn't thought about originally, but my 6x9s are 3 ways, and im pretty sure that 4x6s are 2 way speakers. I'm guessing adding standalone tweeters wont do much for me. I'll look into adding more power to the front speakers, and if that doesn't work I'll have to add some speakers to the kick panels.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

If I recall my Music Appreciation / Stereo classes properly, high frequencies are fairly directional. Lower frequencies are more omnidirectional. In other words, the highs tend to go where they are pointed, and the lows radiate out in all directions. This is why when a kid pulls up next to you with his windows up, and his stereo cranked, all you hear is the thumping bass, not the mids and highs as much.

So I think that is what Scorpner is suggesting...additional tweeters that are "aimed" at you. The ones in the dash are aimed at you a little, but have to make it out of the dash, then bounce off the windshield, and be scattered. The ones in your 6x9s are facing directly across the car at each other. A rear seat passenger will get an ear full of highs, but you, not so much. Some small component tweeters on an A pillar, or on the kick panels, aimed at the front seat driver/passenger will give the highs a more direct path to your ear.

Someone stop me if I'm on the wrong path here.....

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Yes, that's a very good description of of what's involved and probably better than I could have put it. I wasn't suggesting anything specific though, just throwing out general ideas/options to consider. I haven't taken any classes on the subject so I'm certainly not one to say whether you're on the wrong path or not. lol

92RS_Ttop, if there are any high end car stereo places around they should be able to show you what I'm talking about. I'm thinking more along the lines of what a person listening to classical music would appreciate but with plenty of power to accentuate the details through the wind noise. The cleaner and more powerful the sound the better it will be by the time it gets through the turbulence and to your ears.

I do think that the area between the dash and the window is relatively decent for when the T-Tops are off because there is less turbulence there. It's the size of the 4x6's that are the problem. The surface area of the cone and the amount of range it can travel are really hard factors to work with. Speakers are kind of like little air pumps and the smaller they are, the harder it is to get them to do what you need them to do.

oaklandfuelman

yes i would also agree you are right about the highs aimed at you will sound better like the door pads of a 4th gen with the monsoon system with the mid & tweet work very good for a factory setup & is better than the dash speakers can produce but just adding more power to them will help alot my iroc was in the same place when i brought it home pioneer speakers run off the head unit wasnt even worth turning it on

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Scopner-I do like classical music, I just don't listen to it much in the camaro as it just doesn't seem right to be racing down some twisty back roads while Beethoven plays in the background but I see what you're getting at.

DynoDave- that pretty much matches up with what I understand about speaker frequencies and direction.

Oaklandfuelman- good to know more power helped you with the same issue. Definitely need to get that other amp connected.

Any problems with power loss or distortion with running the front speaker wires all the way up front from an amp that is installed in the trunk?

oaklandfuelman

no ive had no issue i did use a 12g speaker wire its m max flex max flow high fidelity cable just be shure to get a true gauge high strand wire & not one with a thicker casing & less wire & you should have no issue im putting 60 watts rms to my 4x6 dash speakers you need about 13-15 ft lead depending on how you rout the wire something like this should handel up to about 80-90 watts rms at that length befour you start to have issues http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...X-XWS1250.html

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the link! I wasn't sure what gauge wire to use. I've always used 18 gauge wire for my speakers, but never had to run wiring more than 3-4' before.

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

just about everyone that has an amp for their speakers has the amp in the trunk. and 12g is way over kill for the power level that 4x6 is going to have. good 18 will be fine, you just have to run power and signal on opposite sides of the car, as always

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

bunch of cool wire size calculators here
put in 100w, 20ft run, 18g wire, 4ohm speaker and it works out to .4db loss with 1 being inaudible.

http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm

oaklandfuelman

just like the engineers creating these wire tables that concluded the big three in are cars were (just fine) but ever hear 1 person who upgrade to 1/0 or 0/1 gauge = (over kill by engineer standards) & say it wasnt any different, or do they all say its like night to day. 18g is fine off the head unit but the smallest gauge i have ever run out of an amp is 16g. wire also looses its effiiciency over time so using the smallest wire thats rated for any load is just not a good idea. here is a gauge wire chart note the smallest wire gauge listed at 14 ft is 12g & the smallest gauge listed at 120w is 16 gauge i like to go 1 gauge bigger but thats just me http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/S...e_Speaker-Wire

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the links guys! I'll have to check them out when I get time.

oaklandfuelman

your welcome the chart i posted doesnt go down to your power level & jw is right in that if your only running 40 watts a channel you dont need the 12g thats just what i used & i could have used 14g but i like to go 1 step bigger on everthing just to be safe over kill is never a bad thing imo.

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

the chart only goes down that low because they are talking about dc input power and ground. the one i posted has speaker wire calculator. dc current ratings for wire loss are way different than ac(output of amp is a/c basically) you have much less loss at a given amp level because music is on off on off etc. dc is just on all the time.

oaklandfuelman

The method for figuring out what gauge wire to use with subwoofers and speakers is the same process as amps. You take the total wattage of each speaker / sub and divide it by the voltage to calculate the amperage rating. Then from there use the gauge wire chart below to determine what gauge wire you will need to use. Speaker wire is dual conductor wires which will mean one lead carries positive and the other carries negative------ i understand what your saying but its funny thats not what the chart says at all it states its the same both ways thats what i have always used wattage divided by voltage = amperage never thought saying the power level will vary so using a smaller wire than what is rated to handle any amperage at any distance was a good plan & would never do that in my car

oaklandfuelman

i used the calculator jw posted using the same set up 100w 20ft 18g wire & it shows power delivered to speaker at 88.42 then again with 12g wire & power delivered to speaker is at 96.9 so it looks like even with that calculator there is power loss with the 18g wire

86White_T/A305

In my old ttop car having kickpanel speakers made the car sound well balanced.After i did my ls swap and went 6pd i had to ditch that for clutch pedal room so i went back looking at how to use the 4x6 stock location and not lose alot of sound quality and loudness. With a lil massaging of the defog vents with heat I was able to fit shallow pioneer 5 1/2 speakers in the 4x6 locations. I spaced my dash pad up a 1/4 inch from clearance for the speakers and also took the dashpad speaker grills off and cutaway more foam and shaved the underside as much as I could and glued the grill back on a hair higher. Put it all back together and sounds good..still loud from reflecting off the windshield.You do need an amp with decent hpf to tune the fronts.Been running the same setup in my current car even though i dont have ttops. be creative and solutions will be there..just invest some time.

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

if you calculate the db loss of that power difference and consider less than one db imperceptible then the loss of that small a wattage is not noticeable it works out to less than half a db

oaklandfuelman

i just put 3500w 20ft 18g & it does show the wire as being to small it still shows it as being only a 0.53 db loss whats funny is it shows the same loss at 100w 20ft 18g & every wattage over that shows the same .53 db loss just wondering what do you have to put to an 18g wire at 20ft to get a loss over .53 i even used 10,000w at 20ft 18g & still got a .53 db loss so am i to belive there is no more loss at 10,000 watts than at 100 watts at 4 ohm the only way it goes over 1db loss is if you change it to 2 ohm & go 10,000w at 20ft 18g wire your car will catch on fire but dont worry you still have less than 1 db loss sorry but you might want to stay away from that calculator till it gets fixed 10,000 watts at 14.4 volts = 694 amps if your calculator tells you thats only a 0.53 db loss on an 18g wire & you belive that then all i can do is wish you the best of luck

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Actually, that does make a kind of sense. Look at it this way: Putting 3500w over a 20' span of 18 gauge wire to a 2 ohm speaker faces the exact same resistance, in ohms, as putting 10,000w over a 20' span of 18 gauge wire to a 2 ohm speaker.

Changing from a 2 ohm speaker to a 4 ohm speaker and keeping everything else the same doubles the total resistance of the circuit. The total resistance of the circuit is what will determine the amount of signal loss, not the amount of power driving the signal. At least, not at the power levels we are discussing. If you drop the power levels way down you will probably see a difference in your example. I'm thinking under 50 watts.

Changing the gauge of the wire would also change the amount of signal loss. 12 gauge wire has less resistance than 18 gauge wire, so it provides a better path for the signal and therefore less signal loss.

In reality though, the reason that the calculator you used shows that 18 gauge wire is too small for 3500w has nothing to do with signal loss and everything to do with the number of amps that need to be pushed in order to make 3500w of power at the speaker. Watts = Amps * Volts So if you want 3500 Watts @ 12 Volts(assuming car speakers run on 12V, never thought about it), then you need to be pushing 291.67 Amps. I doubt very much that you would be able to hear the first note of a song before your wiring went up in a bright flash of light and heat.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

The ohm's at the speaker is called impedance and impedance is resistance created by alternating current which is the signal from the music you're listening to. (I don't have a whole lot of experience with the audio end of things but I was an electronic tech for a while.) Another thing I might consider if you're getting that technical about things is that the output transistors require a certain amount of impedance resistance or it can throw them off balance and possibly cause them to overheat. You don't want to change the ohms in your circuit unless the amplifier allows for it.
I'm guessing you would want the resistance loss to happen through the speaker for it's function vs. heating up the wiring which is what happens to the energy lost through it's resistance via length.

If the cost is relatively the same I always buy larger gauge than I need. It doesn't hurt anything and if you end up buying a spool you have more options available vs. possibly having to buy more wire later on. The only draw backs are sometimes dealing with the connectors (& sometimes additional cost) and fitment issues. One way to test this comparison is to hook one speaker up with the amount of wiring you're considering and the other with a shorter wire and see if you can actually tell the difference, and also check for the wire heating up.

I'll be honest and say that I'm more a fan of running less wire. There are other factors like pinched wiring, vibration, interference, and more complex installation to deal with. I've pulled wiring from cars in the junk yard and the insulation is often worn through, especially in transition areas. BTW, there is a plastic conduit on the drivers side along the door sill that is a much better option than running it under carpeting etc.

I like this.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I wasn't trying to start a real in-depth technical discussion with my last post. It was just my (admittedly limited) understanding of what was posted before. I prefer running heavier wire than the bare minimum required myself, when possible. To be honest, I never really understood the ohm rating on speakers as it related to the amp anyhow.

I thought about running the speaker wires un the drivers side conduit, but probably won't for 2 reasons. 1- my amp is on the passenger side in the trunk, and 2- I want to keep them away from power wires as much as possible. I already have the rear low-level outputs from the headunit running back the passenger side, so I can just add the new front speakers wires to that conduit. It was pretty easy to go over the rear wheel well behind the sail panel and under the door sill panel to behind the kick panel.

I'd kinda prefer to keep the stock size speakers under the dash as the speaker grills are molded into the dash pad as opposed to separate covers like 86white's. I have the dash completely out right now to redo the wiring harness behind it, so I'll check into it, but I don't think I'll be able to do much.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I've been trying to limit my input because sometimes threads like this get too involved and/or people sometimes have too many different opinions. I also haven't been around car stereos for quite a while so some things may have changed. I gathered that you didn't know about impedance which is why I thought I better jump in and say something so that you're aware of what I was taught/learned.

(If interested)
There are two types of resistance, one for direct current and one for alternating current. The easiest to understand is direct current where you can visualize a circuit as water running through a trench or tube. The wire being the tube with; voltage as pressure, and current as the rate of flow. Then it becomes easy to visualize resistance as a length of restriction in the tube (or as a waterfall in the trench analogy). There is a difference in pressure (or voltage) across the restriction (or resistor) and energy is lost as well (in electronics energy is lost as heat).
AC is different in that impedance is based on the resistance to Change and is common in coils of wire, which is common in speakers.
In your comparison of wires then the wire itself can be considered a very long resistor and/or can be looked at as comparing two different sized tubes(or trenches). Then you can see how a larger wire won't affect things as much. You can ignore all of this but it might help you understand the basics. I know that the analogy has helped others before.

I understand your reasoning and that's fine. I would be careful running the wiring back through the passenger side. Some of the pinch areas I can recall are the plastics to the sill plate and the sill plate itself. Remember that people step on the sill plate and most everything moves around so I'd avoid tight areas too. Under the carpet can be bad as well, so if you do something like that try to keep it along the tunnel or something where people aren't as likely to step on it. In transition areas -say from plastic to carpet you might want to make extra room on the edges and consider possibly hard protective tubing there. Sharp edges of metal and places where the plastic is tight against the body aren't the best either. Ideally the wiring should be free to move but held in palace similarly as it is on the other side. I sometimes look at how GM did things and try to emulate what they did as well. Plus some of the parts you can get from the junk yard for cheap/free. If you happen to be at a junk yard you can see if you can run the drivers side conduit on the passenger side (no idea if that'll work but might be worth checking out).

Yep, I'm just saying how I might go about it which is why I was staying out of it too. (IIRC, I was looking at modifying the top of the cluster and air ducts. I guess I wouldn't touch a Camaro dash for fear of it cracking.) Having lost money on brand new Infinity speakers I have a personal vendetta on making room on my next install.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I didn't realize speakers worked on AC current. I always assumed they were DC and just thought the signal was an on/off pulse as opposed to reversing. I'll be the first to admit I'm much more familiar with DC than AC. I have no problems rewiring and adding electrical components to a car, but can't wire a 3 way light switch in a house. I'm always wiling to learn, so please don't feel like you have to hold back. That's one of the biggest reasons I enjoy this hobby and TGO.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Well, it does have polarity so I'm already getting myself a little over my head. You kind of have to start out with the basics and then go from there. The important thing is that impedance is the biggest factor of resistance for speakers. The coil inside is an electromagnet that pushes the cone up and down.
I'm not sure if this would help, I found it with a quick search: http://www.bcae1.com/audoutex.htm
I actually didn't read all of this but if you're up to it it might help you to understand: http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm

This too:

oaklandfuelman

I guess i got off base trying to make my point when jw kept saying its less than 1 db loss so its all good my piont was that you shouldnt be using db loss to determine wire gauge if you can go so far into fantasy land with power levels that will bbq your car & still only have a .5 db Then your not doing it right & the only way to get a loss above that is to drop to 2ohm I understand the difference from input to output & still use the same method wattage ÷ voltage = amperage for 2 reasons 1 not all wire is created equal & there is zero downside to using a larger gauge that what you need 2nd i might want to upgrade in the future to a component set up & might be looking at 2-3 times the rms of the 4x6 by using the 12g i know i wont need to tear my interior apart agian to do a job i already did once the overkill method has never failed me the skimp by on the minimum method however results may vary

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

there is not zero down side to going way over kill on wire there are space and money concerns, that come up, 18g wire is like a third of the cost of the wire you posted. regard less of the calculator not working properly, myself and others i know have been installing systems on the hobby level since the 90's and i have never seen anyone use or think its necessary for low power speakers to require bigger than 18. the only place i use 12 is on the subs



ac impedance as stated before is way different for wire ratings, your on/off time lets the wire cool better so if you look at any given wires tech data there will be dc ratings and ac, with the ac being much higher power handling ability

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

Wire gauge

Thicker wires reduce resistance. The resistance of 16-gauge or heavier speaker connection cable has no detectable effect in runs of 50 feet (15 meters) or less in standard domestic loudspeaker connections for a typical 8 ohm speaker.[4] As speaker impedance drops, lower gauge (heavier) wire is needed to prevent degradation to damping factor – a measure of the amplifier's control over the position of the voice coil.

Insulation thickness or type also has no audible effect as long as the insulation is of good quality and does not chemically react with the wire itself (poor-quality insulation has occasionally been found to accelerate oxidation of the copper conductor, increasing resistance over time).[citation needed] High-power in-car audio systems using 2-ohm speaker circuits require thicker wire than 4 to 8-ohm home audio applications.

Most consumer applications use two conductor wire. A common rule of thumb is that the resistance of the speaker wire should not exceed 5% of the rated impedance of the system. The table below shows recommended lengths based on this guideline:
Maximum wire lengths for two conductor copper wire[4]
Wire size 2 Ω load 4 Ω load
22 AWG (0.326 mm2) 3 ft (0.9 m) 6 ft (1.8 m)
20 AWG (0.518 mm2) 5 ft (1.5 m) 10 ft (3 m)
18 AWG (0.823 mm2) 8 ft (2.4 m) 16 ft (4.9 m)
16 AWG (1.31 mm2) 12 ft (3.6 m) 24 ft (7.3 m)
14 AWG (2.08 mm2) 20 ft (6.1 m) 40 ft (12 m)
12 AWG (3.31 mm2) 30 ft (9.1 m) 60 ft (18 m)*
10 AWG (5.26 mm2) 50 ft (15 m) 100 ft (30 m)*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

"Wire gauge

Thicker wires reduce resistance. The resistance of 16-gauge or heavier speaker connection cable has no detectable effect in runs of 50 feet (15 meters) or less in standard domestic loudspeaker connections for a typical 8 ohm speaker.[4] As speaker impedance drops, lower gauge (heavier) wire is needed to prevent degradation to damping factor – a measure of the amplifier's control over the position of the voice coil.

Insulation thickness or type also has no audible effect as long as the insulation is of good quality and does not chemically react with the wire itself (poor-quality insulation has occasionally been found to accelerate oxidation of the copper conductor, increasing resistance over time).[citation needed] High-power in-car audio systems using 2-ohm speaker circuits require thicker wire than 4 to 8-ohm home audio applications.

Most consumer applications use two conductor wire. A common rule of thumb is that the resistance of the speaker wire should not exceed 5% of the rated impedance of the system. The table below shows recommended lengths based on this guideline:

Maximum wire lengths for two conductor copper wire
Wire size 2 Ω load 4 Ω load
22 AWG (0.326 mm2) 3 ft (0.9 m) 6 ft (1.8 m)
20 AWG (0.518 mm2) 5 ft (1.5 m) 10 ft (3 m)
18 AWG (0.823 mm2) 8 ft (2.4 m) 16 ft (4.9 m)
16 AWG (1.31 mm2) 12 ft (3.6 m) 24 ft (7.3 m)
14 AWG (2.08 mm2) 20 ft (6.1 m) 40 ft (12 m)
12 AWG (3.31 mm2) 30 ft (9.1 m) 60 ft (18 m)*
10 AWG (5.26 mm2) 50 ft (15 m) 100 ft (30 m)*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire

oaklandfuelman

i already said you dont need 12g thats just what i used. & that i belive in the overkill method i have also been installing on a hobby level sence the 90s. & most of what i have learned comes from a good friend who has been installing as a profession & owened a car audio shop sence the 70s. & he doesnt have any less than 16g in the shop, you wont find any 18g in my system, i understand what your saying about dc vs ac. but even the chart you posted puts are cars right near the max for 18g, & shows nothing for max wattage at that length,or takes into account if the wire is run under the carpet. thats not where i would want to be. if you & everyone you know want to run the minimum thats your choice. i agree with most of what you post normally but lets just agree to disagree on the 18g wire

Jonesyfxr

iTrader: (2)

I just installed a JVC 5 channel amp into a 2010 Camaro. I installed new JL Audio components in the doors, JL 6x9's in the rear, a single 10" JL sub and that new JVC amp off the factory head unit. The amp is EXTREMELY impressive for its size, it has excellent sub control and the factory crossovers were impressively clean. The sub amp was able to handle quick tone changes without any issues or misses of a beat. I designed this system around an owner that listens to a lot of jazz. The amp was extremely clean sounding with almost no noticeable noise playing a 0 bit track. I would HIHGLY recommend this amp to anybody.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Sounds interesting. Is there a model number to go with that JVC amp?

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

While finishing up some other wiring work on the interior of the car today, I grabbed the part numbers on all my speakers and both amps and did some Googling. Here is what I've got:

Fronts: Rockford Fosgate HPC1246 2-way 4x6 4ohm 40W RMS/80W Peak
Amp: headunit's built-in amp

Rear: Pioneer TS-A6961R 3-way 6x9 4ohm 40W RMS/230W Peak
Amp: Jensen XA1120 unbridged 2x55W RMS/2x110W Peak 4ohm

The amp I picked up for the fronts is:
Pyramid PB440X 2x35W RMS/2x120W Peak 4ohm

Looking at the specs for the front speakers, I may have accidentally gone a bit overboard on the front amp's peak power rating. Obviously it won't be running at peak output constantly, but I'm not sure the speakers could handle it. Do I need something closer to the speakers' rated power specs, or am I overthinking things?

oaklandfuelman

I dont even look at max watts anymore just the rms if your speakers are at 40 & your amp is at 35 your fine to use that amp

oaklandfuelman

Unfortunately peak wattage has become so manipulated. & often inflated for advertising & competition between company's it's hard to pair components using this number anymore i just use rms watts but again thats just how i do it not saying thats the only method

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I don't think many manufacturers give honest specs on their equipment and even then I'm sure they vary from one brand to the other. With any kind of stereo it's a good idea to isolate each speaker and turn up the volume (front/rear fade, L/Right & sometimes base/treble) until you hear it starting to distort and then never turn it up past that point. The distortion can also vary from the source so keep that in mind too. If you have a weak speaker (or pair) you need to remember not to push them since you may not be able to hear as well with the larger ones running along with the wind noise. Most of what I've owned you can't mindlessly turn up all the way or you'd ruin the speakers. Same idea as revving an engine too far.
What is the front output of your head unit by the way?

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Oaklandfuelman - I know the manufacturers like to manipulate the peak power numbers, but I figured 40w is a pretty big gap.

Scorpner - Head unit is 35w x 4 peak. I know its way underpowered for any of the speakers I have connected.

oaklandfuelman

your concern with the peak power rating is certainly justified especially if the speakers are older. but i think if you follow scorpners recommended method for tuning the speakers you can then adjust the amp down at the same time if need be to a level of no distortion & run at a power level that wont damage your speakers. i normally would never recomend an amp with more power than the speaker, but who can you trust to advertise real world peak power rating? i dont have the answer. so what i do is use rms power i find it to be far more consistent. i prefer that the speaker have a little higher rms rating than the amp just to be on the safe side. & thats about where your at, if properly tuned i see no reason why you cant use that amp

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I would think peak power would be more of a concern with subs with the distance they need to move to create the "thump" of heavy bass than with smaller speakers that are moving more rapidly and the shorter distance the cone travels. Obviously overdriving any speaker is bad though. Since I'll only be running the fronts off that amp, I should have no problems tuning it to that side of the spectrum. The amp has separate adjustments for the gain, treble, and bass on it so I think I can tune it easily enough.

Jonesyfxr

iTrader: (2)

Here's the install. It's a pre-made box with an extension to fit the amp onto. I then re-carpeted the entire thing.




Here's a link to the amp. Like I said, the bass amp makes smooth transmissions from one note to another without any audible clipping.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105AX32...1806625&awdv=t

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Thanks Jonesyfxr.

Jonesyfxr

iTrader: (2)

Anytime. For the price, you can't beat this amp.

vdoggie

The right questions are

How fast are you going?

How loud is your exhaust?

I seriously can't imagine you not being able to hear even with your current set up.. the head unit and speakers in my current one are junk, blown out and I can still hear no problem going 60 with the T's off and windows down.. is something else going on we don't know about?