CarburetorsCarb discussion and questions. Upgrading a Third Gen carburetor, swapping TBI to carburetor, or TPI to carburetor? Need LG4 or H.O. info? Post it here.
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I want to know if anyone has gone all motor with no computer. Just all engine, tranny and battery. Real simple. Is this possible for a daily driver?
You see, I have a 305TBI now, but I want to gut it out of my Camaro, rip out all the wiring, smog equipment and go with a carbed computerless setup? Is this possible, or more importantly is it sensible?
Also I need not any input on SMOG Law. Its not an issue for me. Thank you, Eric
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Well, 20 years ago we all drove cars like that. A carb can be very friendly on a daily driver if properly tuned. It'll never have the all-weather perfect performance of a well-functioning EFI setup, but you can make a carb run pretty darned good. You don't want to go crazy with the cam- EFI can compensate for a big cam much better than a carb can (especially idling and at light throttle/low RPMs) but the short answer is still basically Yes.
I don't use mine as a daily driver anymore, but I used to. It was perfectly fine as a daily driver.
It has an Edelbrock 600cfm carb, open element, shorty headers, edelbrock performer intake on an LG4, oh yes and a 5 speed tranny. No smog stuff, No A/C. All thats on the motor is two belts, the alternator and the power steering.
As was said earlier as long as its tuned correctly you'll have no problems.
Last edited by Corbi_85-IROC; 07-01-2003 at 11:24 PM.
i put on a used holley 750 and it ran pretty good. my only complaint was an off-idle bog, not bad for not rebuilding and not tuning the carb. it's a good idea to do some tuning if it's needed but chances are you can find a carb that'll be very close to 'just right' out of the box
__________________ '87 Burnished Copper Camaro LT. L98 with Pro Topline heads, LT4 hot cam, LT1 intake conversion. T56 trans and some suspension goodies. More car info
I hear people talk about how when they take the computer out they have to tune-up the car almost weekly, and with a computer you only have to tune it up about as often as you change the oil..
In my mind, it made no sense.
__________________
"If you can't hear it before you can see, then what is the point?" - Jesse James
"You might just be out of blinker fluid too" - badjuju342
I had a Carter 625 & Comp280H in my old Camaro. The only thing I did was change the oil every 3K for over SIX years that I drove it as a daily driver.
Now how did that go in the winter? gas-gas-start-part gas-choke to half-wait 10minutes
Ron
__________________ '82 Trans Am
'81 Camaro Z-28
'94 Vette LT1 Coupe
'00 Impala LS
'03 Silverado 1500HD 4x4
the only diffs between my carbed 400 and a FI one would be:
1 when you start it. you pressed the gas one time then turned the key. once you get used to it, it becomes 2nd nature. and it will start QUICKER then a 3rdgen FI car....
2 when its cold, the idle from the elec choke is higher, so you SHOULD wait a min with it at high idle.... but with my eldlbrock, if i flicked the gas, i can make it idle down quickly.... athough its a bit of a rough idle until it fully warms up..
personally, i think most of the bad rap carbs get now days is from people that didnt grow up with carbed cars... they claim they're hard to start ( they dont know what a choke is) they say it runs like **** ( they just bolted it on there, and it seems to run fine)
cars have been running fine on carbs for over 100 years.....they work just fine as daily drivers
The only reason people "tune up" thier carb cars is because theres always room for improvment. It's not like an injected setup where most people just look at the TB if thier not happy scratch thier head and mummer humph. With a carb you can always adjust somthing and parts cost practicly pennies.
__________________ 1982 Firebird 350/700R4.
Crower Beast cam, RPM Intake, Edelcrap 1406 for the street, 14x3 open element air cleaner, Serpentine conversion, Carter rotary pump, Flowtech Headers 3" exh, cat delete with Ravin muffler. Modified B&M / Transgo shift kit with B&M cooler.
Originally posted by SSC With a carb you can always adjust somthing and parts cost practicly pennies.
lol, where do you get your parts?
i'm getting ready to rebuild and tune my holley 4160 and by the time i figure out which jets, springs, cams, etc. i need it looks like it'll cost me an arm and a leg
__________________ '87 Burnished Copper Camaro LT. L98 with Pro Topline heads, LT4 hot cam, LT1 intake conversion. T56 trans and some suspension goodies. More car info
Ok, its not computerless, but come on, the carb computer does next to nothing :P My car still has the CC carb, and is still runing the 305 LG4 ECM. Its by no means an ideal setup, but it works. I drive it every day to work, and it gets me there fine, sometimes with the occasional race on the way :P. I have done a few things to it to make it a better daily driver though. I changed to the 88-92 serpentine belt setup, its much better than the crappy v-belts. The engine felt much smoother after installing it. I also changed to an aluminum radiator, and electric fan. The old belt driven fan and copper/brass radiator just werent enough for sitting in dallas traffic. I've also added a front airdam from an 89 RS. It hangs down a little lower than the stock one (my stock one was busted up), and it doesnt come out all the way to the fenders. I have no cooling problems at high speed now, not even at 100+ mph All of these parts came from the junkyard too, at less than $200 for everything. I have tuned the carb, just about exactly where it needs to be. I never get any black smoke from the exhaust or anything. I'm not exactly sure how its possible, but I get about 20 mpg on the highway, and not much less in the city. I drove from here to San Marcos, TX once, on exactly a full tank of gas. Its around 300 miles to there. Divide that by 15.5 gallons, an thats almost 20 mpg...
__________________ North Texas Third Gen Association 1988 GTA 5.0/M5/3.45 LSD, T-Tops, Digital Dash, Leather - Current Ride 1983 Firebird S/E - Stripped 1995 Chevy 1500 5.7 Ext. Cab - Daily Driver
Alright, the motor was swapped out before I got it. So when I purchased the car it had a non-CC dist. trying to work with a CC-Q-Jet. Needless to say gas mileage was out the window, not to mention performance. So I swapped on an Intake and Holley 600 Carb. with Vac. Sec., not expecting much, but the difference was night and day. Better performance and way better gas mileage. I can see 24 mpg crusing 70mph on the freeway for a long trip. City cruising Mpg falls off, but not that much. But thats to be expected with occassional romps on the pedal.
Overall, a carb can be made to be a great daily driver with minimal keep up, esp. now a days. A little tune every now and again, but alot less expensive than EFI. I can usually tune mine with just a Vac. gage and looking at the plugs, try that with TPI or TBI .
Also, the car is a true daily driver, maybe 30 miles a day, but I will snap a pic of my dusty carbed engine bay if you want.
no computer here, and im gettin about 165 miles to a tank of 94 but alot of the gas wasted is just lettin it get a little warm up in the morning mostly 5mins and im off for the day(work) and after the car sits for about 9hours i let it warm up for 5 more mins and im good for the rest of the day.
and my cars been computerless for id say about 10yrs+ now.
Daily driver Over the weekend I did a 170 mile round trip to the drag strip with 4 passes. Probably could have made it on one tank but got nervous lol still above the E line by the width of the pointer when I filled up. Had about 20 miles to go.
__________________ Best times to date, motor pass: 11.81 @ 114.55 1.63 60' 10/18/08
nitrous pass: 10.49 @ 126 mph 1.42 60' 10/18/08
350, AFR 195 heads, Eagle H-beam 6" rods, Victor Jr,
750 Race Demon, ProMagnum RR's, Hooker LT, TH400, Spohn T/A and C/M
Originally posted by Timz2882 no computer here, and im gettin about 165 miles to a tank of 94 but alot of the gas wasted is just lettin it get a little warm up in the morning mostly 5mins and im off for the day(work) and after the car sits for about 9hours i let it warm up for 5 more mins and im good for the rest of the day.
and my cars been computerless for id say about 10yrs+ now.
I'll bet your car would get better mileage if you ran 87 octane instead of 94. Compare my mods to yours and then tell me why I get over 19 mpg in town.
You should be able to get at least 250 miles to a tank in town.
__________________
1986 CAMARO SPORT COUPÉ
5.0 Liter 305 hp
Hooker 2460 Shorty headers, mandrel bent 3" exhaust
Walker Quiet-Flow muffler and dual 2 1/2" pipes
Edelbrock Performer intake with 1406 600 cfm carburetor
Ported and polished 305 "601" heads à la F-Bird'88
305 HO dual snorkle aircleaner with K&N filter
Crane PowerMax 260 camshaft (.427 - .454) and lifters
Proform HEI coil and module, MSD cap, rotor and 8.5 mm Superconductors
700R4 with TransGo Stage2 shift kit and Derale 12000 lb. gvw trans cooler
3.42 gears, KYB Gas-A-Justs and Z-28 front and rear anti-sway bars
Goodyear Eagle HP (200km/h) 225x60R15s on 15x7 styled aluminum slots
T-Tops, A/C, tilt, cruise, variable wipers, power steering, brakes, windows, locks and rear hatch
Alpine CDA-9827 4 channel AM/FM CD-MP3 receiver with Pioneer and Rockford-Fosgate speakers. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _____________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Yea verily, and he sore smote the smog heathens from his smallblock Chevrolet, even from the air pump unto the converter.... Book of Todd 3:05 Regardez mon coupé formidable ici!!! http://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index....ew&rideid=8338
also half the time of my gas wasted it just sittin ideling/warming up, i drive maybe like 20mins aday and thats to work and back. and then carshows on wed. nights and thats it. one tank of gas lasts me abut 21/2-3 weeks
I have a Q-Jet from a 1979 350 Chevy Van in my daily driver. It's too much carb for the crappy 86 305 V8 stock cam, and it always seems to run slightly rich. It runs rough for about 5 minutes when it's cold, but once warmed up I'm getting about 17 MPG on 87 Octane.
If I had it to do over, I'd have put a bigger cam in at the same time, like a stock replacement for the 1979 Chev. Van.
I'm building a 350 .020 over with a Comp XE cam and Edelbrock 600 CFM carb, I hope to have it in by August.
Originally posted by 86BirdSE I have a Q-Jet from a 1979 350 Chevy Van in my daily driver. It's too much carb for the crappy 86 305 V8 stock cam, and it always seems to run slightly rich. It runs rough for about 5 minutes when it's cold, but once warmed up I'm getting about 17 MPG on 87 Octane.
If I had it to do over, I'd have put a bigger cam in at the same time, like a stock replacement for the 1979 Chev. Van.
I'm building a 350 .020 over with a Comp XE cam and Edelbrock 600 CFM carb, I hope to have it in by August.
No, the QJet is almost perfect for any size engine due to its vacuum secondaries. If you can get the primaries tuned in, and people who REALLY know QJets like Damon tell you not to mess around with them anyway, you can get the crazy carb to run practically like fuel injection, mileage-wise!
I know GM has made different size QJets but almost every one of them since the 70s have been 750 cfm models, even if it takes a couple adjustments to get that cfm out of them.
Last edited by Sitting Bull; 07-28-2003 at 01:33 AM.
i'm about 3/4 of the way done with a tbi to carb swap on my daily driver. all that i really got left is to hook up the hoses and regulator. hoping it can stay on, but emissions may become a problem. been tryin to look for emission tips, but having a hard time. its a good thing we (CT) still have no emission checks, but that is supposed to change very very soon. who knows.
Originally posted by Berlinetta82 i could get about 400 km out of a tank. Sometimes 450 km. What's that in mpg? Doesn't look to bad but I dont know the conversion for km-mi.
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
im going to be running computerless in my 89 camaro. ive started the wirering or taking out the wirering the last few days. im running a 355sb with a 700r4 tranny. i still need parts to finish, but was told i need something for the tranny. if anyone knows, just let me know. thanks. here are a few pics
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
not quite done yet. just bought the mallory distributor and msd coil and ballast resister this weekend. i was told i needed a harness for the tranny because im going computerless. not everyday you see a tunnel ram 3rd gen as a daily......lol
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
i know right....lol. i googled something for my 89 rs and this showed up. so i figured i would restart it and hopefully get some info on my build. im uploading pics to my profile now. let me know what you think
Last edited by rsbabygirl; 08-10-2009 at 10:48 PM.
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCartman
Daily driver Over the weekend I did a 170 mile round trip to the drag strip with 4 passes. Probably could have made it on one tank but got nervous lol still above the E line by the width of the pointer when I filled up. Had about 20 miles to go.
Dang, so I guess the first time to the dragstrip for me was back in 03 lmao
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbi_85-IROC
I don't use mine as a daily driver anymore, but I used to. It was perfectly fine as a daily driver.
It has an Edelbrock 600cfm carb, open element, shorty headers, edelbrock performer intake on an LG4, oh yes and a 5 speed tranny. No smog stuff, No A/C. All thats on the motor is two belts, the alternator and the power steering.
As was said earlier as long as its tuned correctly you'll have no problems.
same here, i can drive my car as daily driver , i don't anymore, only weekends .. i have a 350 with cam and edelbrock rpm performer intake and edelbrock 1405 carb with electric choke , headers, no cat no smog stuff at all..runs great,,why not?
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
I'm working up the courage to tear out the computer harness in the next 24-48 hours. looking to go back to basics (carbed 350) for the next year before going all out (genIV). While it may become a daily driver in good weather, it will sit things out during the winter.
__________________
1987 Trans Am, work in progress
2008 Pontiac G8
Retired: 1984 Camaro "ZF" 2.8L, 1989 Camaro RS
Customer Service Manager, 1A Auto Parts
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
i dont have a choice to sit out in winter. i have no heat or a/c, and i fiberglassed my dash and covered the vent holes completely. im in the middle of taking my computer harness completely out. i mean every wire not being used is going in the scrap pile
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
My last thirdgen was a non-cc'd carbed setup. while it worked, i never got around to putting a choke on it for those cold start days. nothing like sitting with your foot on the gas for 5-10 min just to make sure it doesn't die when you shift into gear.
__________________
1987 Trans Am, work in progress
2008 Pontiac G8
Retired: 1984 Camaro "ZF" 2.8L, 1989 Camaro RS
Customer Service Manager, 1A Auto Parts
Re: who drives a computerless carbed daily driver?
this is my 6th 3rd gen and this one is by far my sickest daily driver. it will be in the garage winter time. im debaiting right now as to go with a 1 piece front end, or go fiberglass fenders and hood
