JTNKTZ

Well I am about to buy an intake and a dizzy for 70 bucks. Not bad eh? The intake is an edelbrock performer and the dizzy is unknown. Any ideas? I am putting it on my 1991 Camaro (350/638 block, TBI, AT). Now what are some of my options? I have other things that I am doing first such as Hooker 2055's but I want to have an idea of what I am doing while I save up for a decent carb.

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1991 Camaro RS
1989 Camaro RS Convertible

csmith3

Is that the original engine in your camaro? Not to be a doomsayer but if it is the original engine, at least the heads anyway, that intake will not fit properly. The center bolt holes will have to be elongated for the intake to be bolted on leak free.

__________________
The earlybird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

TheMonster

mooch1

i agree , watch the installation with the bolts..also , if your on a budget ,,you can get an edelbrock carb,,,they are not the best but are easy to install and not expensive.

JTNKTZ

I understand that there is an pre 86 and post 87 engine. The guy said that it fits the later models. Anyway you can tell which intake it is? I have no problem elongating the holes.

I want a carburetor that will give me good street performance with a stock motor. I am not worried about MPG though. What would you guys suggest?

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1991 Camaro RS
1989 Camaro RS Convertible

JTNKTZ

Alright I did some research.

Edelbrock Performer Early SBC Chevy #2101: Pre-86 motors.
If you look at the picture all the 2101 intakes I have seen have the 2101 imprint below the performer imprint.
IE.


Edelbrock Performer Later SBC Chevy #2104: Post 87 motors
These motors do not have any imprint under the performer from the pictures I have seen.
IE.

Nvm I do have the 2101 intake because if you compare the 2104 intake to mine there is a hole in the 2104 just right from the distributor valley that the 2101 does not have. I will elongate the holes.

Now I still have to decide what kind of carburetor I should get. I want a good overall street performance based carburetor. What are my options?

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1991 Camaro RS
1989 Camaro RS Convertible

TheMonster

In my opinion i would go with a 750CFM carb, I have a edelbrock and im not too happy with it. I like holley carbs much better.

csmith3

JTNKTZ, maybe you did not see that on the 2104 intake the center bolt holes are not at the same angle as the front and rear bolt holes. The intake you have pictured at the top of this post alsmost looks like an old SP2P, (cool), but the fact remains that intake will not fit your heads properly. It can be made to do so, but.....is it worth it? I don't know I've never done it. Can you fabricate some sort of angled spacer, say from a piece of pipe cut off at an angle? Would that give you more clamping force?. As far as a carb goes, I'm a q-jet guy. They're cheap, plentiful (still, but for how long?) and work very well when properly tuned.

__________________
The earlybird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

JTNKTZ

I definitely see the the difference now. I am going to buy it whether or not I decide to use it. 70 bucks for the intake and the distributor is a good deal am I wrong? Worst comes to worst I will sell the intake for 80 bucks on ebay and I will have a dizzy for when I do convert.

What are Q-Jets? What is the difference between them and TBI?

csmith3

No, that is not a bad deal at all. So your ride is currently a TBI? Q-jet is short for Rochester Quadrajet, the four barrel carburator that came stock on millions of vehicles over several decades. Many believe they are not worthy of a perfomance enhancing piece of equipment simply because they are the "stock" unit. However a small number of us actually worship them because of the hidden potential they have. When properly built and tuned a q-jet can deliver as much or in some cases even more performance for the street (some strip duty as well) as any other after market unit up to a certain amount of horsepower of course. My 320 hp 87 Formula runs very nice with the factory (slightly modified) q-jet in place. I'm sensing you're relatively new to this? Try not to get too opinionated from the start about carbs, lot's of people are stubborn in which carb they want others to use. Like me for example I prefer q-jets, but don't hold it against other enthusiaists for running a Holley or Edelbrock (carter) carb. It's just what ever you want.

__________________
The earlybird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

JTNKTZ

Yes I am semi new to this. So what are so special about Q-Jets that make them different from Carbs in other words how do they work?? Would I need to keep the computer, buy a new one or take it out completely?

The guy said he had a 4 barrel carb that he is unsure what it is... He said he will sell it to me for 80 bucks so I may pick that up as well depending on the condition and type of carb.

five7kid

I got beat twice this weekend by a '71 Firebird E/SA 455 with a Quadrajet. He went on to the finals (7 rounds) both days. Pulls the front tires at launch all the time (at 5800' elevation).

If you think a Quadrajet should be called a "Quadrajunk", you haven't been taught to think.

mooch1

i have a edelbrock 1405 carb ,,easy to install with your intake and your distributor..it is an inexpensive carb and will most times run right out of the box with little tuning...it will give you good street performance and decent gas mileage...but that's me ...others would disagree....it's up to you.

csmith3

Point one. Switching from TBI to carb, you should read the sticky, posted above, to learn more about that. Long story short, you would eliminate the computer.

"The Guy said...". Do you know this "guy" or did you find the parts in the local ads? Some "guys" know what they're talking about and will be honest, many others, not so much. Especially if they're trying to sell something and you don't know exactly what you are looking at. Many people will tell you many different things about the same part. But of course that is one of the best ways we learn.

$80 seems like alot to spend on a carb that no one knows for sure what it is.

If your buying SBC stuff remember this, it always came off of a Corvette.

JTNKTZ

I have heard many bad things form edelbrock carbs so I kind of got scared away from them. Heard a lot of good about Holley :P




This "guy" I don't know nor do I have any idea what he looks like. I found him on a local trader. He said it came off a 73 Camaro. I don't plan on buying the carb I just am wondering what kind it is. All he said was it was a 4 Barrel. Trust me I am no sucker :P.

I understand the TBI to Carb but from what I understand isn't the Q-Jet computer controlled? How hard is it to tune a Q-Jet? The Q-Jet is looking pretty good to me.

JTNKTZ

Double post

Intrepid781

Some quadrajets are computer controlled but most aren't. You can tell ccc from one that isnt because it will have a couple plugs on the top of them. I run an edelbrock 1406 and I really like it alot, it was inexpensive and was pretty much plug and play and works with my holley dominator intake.

bluegrassz

If you run a square bore carb, you will have to run one of these on that intake.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2732/

I have a new one if you go that route.

hectre13

I have a holley 4160 4bbl 600cfm carb for sale that I will be pulling off my engine today actually, it was rebuilt less than 25 miles ago, im looking to get 150 bucks for it.

vacuum secondaries and electric choke, its a nice looking carb too.

84imsa

There is a widely accepted formula for determining how big a carb you need:

CID X MAX RPM / 3456 = CFM

350 CID X 6000 RPM / 3456 = 607.63889 CFM

Note that this formula assumes 100% volumetric efficiency. With a stock valve train and no porting, you would be lucky to have 90%. Ergo, you want a carb that will flow approximately 600 CFM max.

Installing a carb with more capacity than you need is a waste of time and money. "750 double-pumper" rolls off the tongue nicely but it's too much carb unless you will be revving to 7500 RPM on a regular basis.

However, a Holley 3310, which is a 750 cfm carb with vacuum secondaries, might work well for you. The secondary opening can be tuned fairly easily with a spring kit to give you just the flow you require on demand. Used 3310s sell on eBay regularly for well under $200. Secondary spring kits and rebuild kits are not expensive.

A stock 600 cfm Holley would work well out of the box but the 3310 "looks" a lot nicer and gives you leeway for more cfm if you ever modify your engine to rev faster.

Quadrajets are great carbs if you have the know-how and patience to tune one properly. I run them on both my 2nd gen Firebirds. They are very inexpensive if you buy them used because so many people just refuse to deal with them. I would not recommend one for you based on your posts unless you enjoy banging you head against the wall.

I know nothing about Edelbrock or other carbs but others may have good ideas along those lines.

Banging head against wall = 150 calories per hour

84imsa

The distributor in the pic looks like a stock GM HEI. They're fairly bullet-proof and require almost no maintenance apart from occasional cap and rotor replacement.

High performance coils that fit under the cap are available. You can also run them with an external coil and an adapter that fits where the stock coil cover goes.

I would recommend adding an aftermarket control module to your ignition system such as an MSD-6A or similar. 6As retail for about $190 but I have bought a bunch of them used on eBay for $100 or less including S&H. I bought my first 6A in the early 90s and it's still performing perfectly after more than 15 years!

Cheers!

JTNKTZ

Alright I decided to go with the 3310 Carb. Now I am confused about "The secondary opening can be tuned fairly easily with a spring kit to give you just the flow you require on demand."

Does the spring kit delay the opening of the secondaries or does it open them faster???

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1991 Camaro RS
1989 Camaro RS Convertible

84imsa

Yes and yes.

The spring kit contains a selection of springs that will allow you to tailor the opening rate of the secondaries in response to a vacuum signal.

Holley also sells a quick-change kit that replaces the top of the secondary actuator with a plastic piece with a removable top. The rubber gasket that seals the top of the actuator is a PITA to position properly and has a tendency to get squished out of shape. So the quick-change kit is a joy to have when setting up your carb.

Have fun!

bluegrassz

I went with this product from quick fuel. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/QFT-63-1/
Just a turn of a screw.

I also converted to a rear metering block. It allowed me to change to jets instead of the plate.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/34-13S/10002/-1
Mine was the 3310s dual inlet. I added notch float with jet extensions, clear sight bowl plugs and removed the choke flap.

You dont have to do all these things, I was just trying to get the most out of the carb.

84imsa

The secondary jet plate is nice for really fine tuning. JTNKTZ would probably want one of those later on when he becomes more comfortable tuning his carb.

Note to self (and others): When tuning your carb, make only one change at a time then evaluate the results. Otherwise, you'll never know which change did what.

t-top havoc

( SP2P early for-runner of Performer? ) That intake will look great when you clean it up! I wish you luck what ever you decide.

mmadden55

If you haven't junked the TBI already I would suggest getting an adaptor and putting it on the manifold.

csmith3

Yeah, the performer forerunner. SP2P = Split Plenum, 2 (dual) Plane. They are cool if you can find one.

five7kid

I would never recommend that. Had one, no better than the q-jet that preceded it, slower than the 650 DP that replaced it.

If you insist on getting it, also get the adjustable secondary housing bluegrassz linked (I did that as well). And, get a 4160 to 4150 conversion kit so you can use replaceable secondary jets.

But, I wouldn't recommend the 3310.

84imsa

I just checked out that Quick Fuel unit. Great invention! I must get one of those.

Thanks for the lead!

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Mike in Manila, Philippines

70 Firebird Esprit 350 "Formuloid"
71 Firebird Formula 400
84 Firebird SE 2.8 V6 with IMSA bodywork

84imsa

What sort of engine did you have those carbs on?

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Mike in Manila, Philippines

70 Firebird Esprit 350 "Formuloid"
71 Firebird Formula 400
84 Firebird SE 2.8 V6 with IMSA bodywork

JTNKTZ

What would you recommend then?

csmith3

Just a slight recap on this looong post, but I think the recommendation, even if it seems biased, is to go with a q-jet. For the application in question, the q-jet is the most practical fuel mixer to use. Nuff said.

__________________
The earlybird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Sparkytfl

There's probably a model number on the underside rather than the top.

I had an sp2p (found it on an 80 camaro I bought and had to scrap), it actually said sp2p and the model number was on the bottom. It went byebye with a truck I sold. The performer is a better intake, but this was better than the iron stock one on an 83 gmc.

Attached Images

sp2p.jpg (92.1 KB, 3 views)

mooch1

great formula..vey interesting info ..

JTNKTZ

Well from what I have heard the Q-Jet is difficult to tune. So I think they are out of the question.

84imsa

Tuning Q-Jets is easy if you know how. It is impossible if you don't know how.



The Q-Jet vs. Holley debate will last as long as the 327 vs. 350 and the carb vs. EFI debates.

Both carbs have their advantages and disadvantages.

If you race your car, it is probably not a very good idea to be mucking about with your Q-Jet between passes. This is where the Holley and its clones shine. Results from minor changes are much more predictable with those.

Q-Jets, on the other hand, have a much wider operating range and can be tuned for economy AND performance. Again, this is only possible "if you know how." Every tuning article I have read requires a test drive after any change you make and I agree wholeheartedly. If you do this for your daily driver, your appreciation for the Q-Jet will increase as you approach the "perfect" set-up for the way you use your car. Your mantra should be "mechanical fuel injection."

I am a Q-Jet die-hard yet I would recommend a Holley for you at this point. I would also recommend you pick up a good used Q-Jet and play with it when you have the time.

Happy tuning!

JTNKTZ

Alright with that being said I need a Holley and a Q-Jet :P Does it matter what kind of Q-Jet? Any specific ones I should look for?

Still need an idea of which Holley I should get.

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1991 Camaro RS
1989 Camaro RS Convertible

84imsa

Check out The Carburetor Shop at:

http://thecarburetorshop.com/

They sell used, rebuilt, and restored carbs. Take some time to go through their site. Even if you don't buy from them, there's a huge amount of information there.

For example, there is a long list of carbs for Chevy cars and trucks from 1970-1974, which was when a lot of the hi-po 350 SBCs were sold, on this page:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kchevrolet4.htm

I have bought two rebuilt carbs from them and their workmanship is excellent.

For your Holley, you will probably get instant gratification from a 600 cfm vacuum secondary unit for daily driving.

Shop wisely.

five7kid

The 396 in the '57. I've also had a Holley spreadbore double pumper on the Camaro - I expected it to pick up the Camaro a little over the q-jet, based on what happened when I put the DP on the 396, but it didn't.
If you're starting from scratch, no carb currently, then I'd say a Holley DP if primary use is the track, and q-jet if your primary use is the street.