ConvertiblesDiscussed here are problems and solutions to convertible specific questions, including difficult to find part numbers and other convertible tech help.
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i have a 84 limited edition convertable with 78000 orig miles,it is a factory conversion done out of california by a company called matrix 3,i have the door badge still on driverside piller.does anyone know how many were made? for pictures email me at mmoen@shaw.ca.
Last edited by mmoen; 03-05-2007 at 06:22 PM.
Reason: pictures
i have a 84 limited edition vert from california with 78000 original miles,this is a factory custum car done by a company called matrix3 i have the door plate to prove,with done date and serial number.does anyone know how many were made i have been told 50-200.for pictures email me at mmoen@shaw.ca
Hard to say for sure without talking to the company that did the conversion.
Where in Alberta do you live? I'm near RED DEER. Do you have ant pics of your car I can't say I've ever seen one like yours.
Welcome to TGO.
__________________ Alston SFC's, TDS WB, BBK Fuel Reg., K&N, AIR removed, A/C delete, Grant Wheel, UMI STB, UMI ADJ PHB, MAC Rear Cover, custom cupholder,some stero junk, piaa fog lights Arrived but not installed: MAC Headers, Offroad Pipe, Catback, 3"Exhaust Cut Out, 58mm TB, SDPC vortec intake, AS&M LTR's, alumin. vortec heads, walbro fuel pump, Spohn LCA's & Torque Arm, 17"TT2 Wheels w255/BFG's, Canuck Motorsports Lowering springs, UMI tierod adjusters and panhard par relocation kit, some clear park lights and turn signal lights. Just need a ZZ4 short block, new rad, some Bilstiens, a real rearend, a new interior, some body work paint and a new top w/weatherstriping and a crap load of time then I will be happy.
Alot of companies made conversions out of T-top Fbodies i have seen more early third gen Firebird and Trans Am conversions than camaro until the factory started making camaro verts in 87. ASC made them as well as the guys you mention and a few others. It might be impossible to get production numbers for these cars because they are conversions but since yours declares that its a limited edition on the back bumper i suspect you might be able to contact the company and find out(i saw that pic on the other thread you posted). These conversions are indeed rare but if you put them all together you may see they are not as rare as one may think. I think age has taken its toll on many of them. Thus no one sees them anymore.
Why do you need the information for insurance purposes. Most of the time they don't care. Pick on age groups rather than cars. There is nothing special insurance wise besides classic insurance. That i know of
As for conversion numbers, other then ASC cars there is no 100% correct numbers that I have seen.
As for insurance, its in case the car does get damaged/stolen he will be paid the higher proper dollar amount rather then "basic f-body". He will also pay a little bit more on the premium though.
__________________ 2007 Infinity G35 Sedan
1997 C3500 CCD
91 Camaro RS Vert
old car 91 Camaro RS HDTP 3.4/t5
hey, matrix 3 has been out of business for a long time....apparently, from the posts on here a while back, the company destroyed all their records and there is no way to contact them or find any information.......Ii have an 84 camaro done by marix 3, and there are several others on the site that have matrix conversions also........you might follow the vert threads wayyy back, there were a few discussions about matrix......does your car have a power top or a manual top ?
One thing about the appraisal, I would think 15,000 would not be unreasonable. However I would think that selling it for that would be more difficult. As for production numbers, I would think that 500 or so would not be a bad guess for total production.
Bruce at www.hawksthirdgenparts.com had an 84 convertible it may have been a Matrix3 car. Basically there were 4 major companies that I know of, Matrix3, Hi-Line which were very similar, Autoform was the roadster, and the ASC which got the bid to make them for GM. Another company that I know nothing about was Stramman, There was also possibly a Choo Choo Customs Camaro but it appeard to be just like the ASC convertible...
I have a number in my notes that Matrix3 made 500 Camaro verts in 1984, this number is unreliable at best.
__________________ 87 FORMULA - 5.1 LB9/A4 T-tops 3.73 Modified (Yellow/Black)
87 FORMULA - 5.0 LB9/M5 T-tops 3.45 (Yellow/Gray)
89 FORMULA 350 - CONVERTIBLE 3.27 All original (Red/Gray) www.3rdgenformula.com
hey thanx guys for all the digging and info you have given me,i am thinking that i might want to sell my car due to another baby,that 15000 was that canadian or american?let me know if you know anyone who might be intrested in my car.
What I am referring to is the APPRAISAL of the car, honestly the car MIGHT be sold for around $10,000 if its a nice clean low miles car. Because it is a convertible it will be worth more than a regular TA in the same condition, Because it is unusual it may be a bit of a challenge to sell because it was not done by ASC, which converted all of the factory verts.
hey guys i think iam ready to sell my vert ,for aroung 10,ooo to 12,ooo$,if anyone know of a buyer just email me at mmoen@shaw.ca,for more info or oictures.thanx guys for all your hard diggin.
You couldn't buy a 3rd gen convertible from your local Chevrolet / Pontiac dealer until 1987. That's when ASC was awarded the official contract for the conversions.
That means from '82 - '86 there was a good demand for aftermarket companies to fulfill that segment of the marketplace.
T-tops were the model of choice for the conversion as they equipped already with some extra bracing.
that was not a factory option at that time.thats why the factor shipped them out for custom tops.my vert also had extra frame supports welded on so the car is way stiffer than factor.
Even when the convertible did become an official option package in '87, they were still shipped out for conversion (to ASC for the =>'87). A Chevrolet/Pontiac factory never built a 3rd gen convertible.
In all honesty, GM stopped making convertibles after 1976 and for the most part they did not make a convertible until 2004, with the possible exception of the C5 corvette. Almost ALL GM's convertibles were outsourced to ASC & C&C and other companies. There were some exceptions like the 87-93 Cadillac Allante, but technically the car was not made by GM either the body was made by Pininfirina (the same company that makes bodies for Ferrari).
The fact of the matter was starting some time in the 70's there were some aftermarket companies making convertible conversions out of F-bodies because there was a market, Many of those conversions were not the most attractive in appearance, but when the car changed for 1982 several companies realized that the conversion process would not be that difficult with the new design. Originally GM seemed to avoid the F-body vert scene, but had some other convertibles made like the Chevy Cavilear, Pontiac Sunbird, Buick Riviera Cadillac Eldorado, eventually the Chevrolet Corvette got a vert back after 10 years, and finally the Camaro in 1987.
From 1982 thru 1986 there was not an official convertible offered for one reason or another for the F-body. Since there was a void, and GM noticed that there were consumers out there willing to purchase the cars it was only logical to subcontract a company to make them. ASC was the logical choice, as they made almost all of GM's conversions in the day. At one point I thought there was some sort of competition to become that supplier to GM but after realizing that ASC did almost all of GM's convertible fleet that no longer made sence. Wether or not ASC bought the tooling from another company is not clear as there were some Choo Choo customs cars that appear to be the same as the ASC cars. moreover what is more curious is that there are several F-cars made by ASC in 1986 but they have no record of the conversions.
To go even further it appears that ASC made the coversions for the 4th gens as well. And they made the WS6 Trans am cars from 1998 & up, including the Collector edition cars.
Many of the conversion companies like Autoform may have sold directly to Dealers only and were converted only as new cars. The Matrix3 and Hi-line customs cars it is unclear on their practices, as I assume that they had similar direct to dealer sales as all of my literature on these cars came from a dealer.
Unfortunately for owners of the non ASC cars there will probably never be any hard evidence one way or another for production numbers. I believe that there were probably about 600 TOTAL Autoform convertibles, some sources state 500 or 600 per year, which I think is a little high for example as they seem to be far and few between, cars with a production of less than 600 seem to be more common from what I have seen. Another unforunate problem with the non-ASC cars is that there is a lack of conformity from company to company. The Matrix3 car is about as different as the Autoform is as different as the Hi-Line costoms. Although the Matrix3 and the Hi-Line look similar I would be very surprissed if anything would fit from one to the other that was convertible specific.
One of the up sides to these cars is that they are very unique, unlike the ASC cars they are not as prevelant and a sight rarely seen, so they are quite rare in that regard.
BTW, this is the wrong time of year to be selling a convertible.
I do not think $10,000 is all that out of touch, especially $10K Canadian. If the car is really clean, drives & runs good etc... then you MIGHT get that for it, it really depends on your market, and finding osmoene who really wants the car for one reason or another. If you really want a fair price or quote, go on some of the sites that have book values, like NADA, Edmunds, KBB and look at the 84 Trans Am, Identical to yours what price you come up with you can add typically 1.5 to 2 times the values. Historically speaking a convertible is worth 1.5 to twice to that of a HARD top car.
Although being in Canada, I would think your market would be better in parts of the US as fair weather is more suitable to a vert.
In all honesty, GM stopped making convertibles after 1976 and for the most part they did not make a convertible until 2004, with the possible exception of the C5 corvette. Almost ALL GM's convertibles were outsourced to ASC & C&C and other companies. There were some exceptions like the 87-93 Cadillac Allante, but technically the car was not made by GM either the body was made by Pininfirina (the same company that makes bodies for Ferrari).
The fact of the matter was starting some time in the 70's there were some aftermarket companies making convertible conversions out of F-bodies because there was a market, Many of those conversions were not the most attractive in appearance, but when the car changed for 1982 several companies realized that the conversion process would not be that difficult with the new design. Originally GM seemed to avoid the F-body vert scene, but had some other convertibles made like the Chevy Cavilear, Pontiac Sunbird, Buick Riviera Cadillac Eldorado, eventually the Chevrolet Corvette got a vert back after 10 years, and finally the Camaro in 1987.
From 1982 thru 1986 there was not an official convertible offered for one reason or another for the F-body. Since there was a void, and GM noticed that there were consumers out there willing to purchase the cars it was only logical to subcontract a company to make them. ASC was the logical choice, as they made almost all of GM's conversions in the day. At one point I thought there was some sort of competition to become that supplier to GM but after realizing that ASC did almost all of GM's convertible fleet that no longer made sence. Wether or not ASC bought the tooling from another company is not clear as there were some Choo Choo customs cars that appear to be the same as the ASC cars. moreover what is more curious is that there are several F-cars made by ASC in 1986 but they have no record of the conversions.
To go even further it appears that ASC made the coversions for the 4th gens as well. And they made the WS6 Trans am cars from 1998 & up, including the Collector edition cars.
Many of the conversion companies like Autoform may have sold directly to Dealers only and were converted only as new cars. The Matrix3 and Hi-line customs cars it is unclear on their practices, as I assume that they had similar direct to dealer sales as all of my literature on these cars came from a dealer.
Unfortunately for owners of the non ASC cars there will probably never be any hard evidence one way or another for production numbers. I believe that there were probably about 600 TOTAL Autoform convertibles, some sources state 500 or 600 per year, which I think is a little high for example as they seem to be far and few between, cars with a production of less than 600 seem to be more common from what I have seen. Another unforunate problem with the non-ASC cars is that there is a lack of conformity from company to company. The Matrix3 car is about as different as the Autoform is as different as the Hi-Line costoms. Although the Matrix3 and the Hi-Line look similar I would be very surprissed if anything would fit from one to the other that was convertible specific.
One of the up sides to these cars is that they are very unique, unlike the ASC cars they are not as prevelant and a sight rarely seen, so they are quite rare in that regard.
BTW, this is the wrong time of year to be selling a convertible.
John
When GM changed the body style of the Cav.,and Sunbird's those convertibles were built on the GM lines,not out sourced. And good luck finding a top to fit the Matrix conversion's,the last one of those I worked on I had to have a top made for it.Now the ASC conversion's are easy to find top's for.
__________________ Junior Johnston
SCB AutoTrim
2565 B W. Bennett
Springfield,Mo
(417)869-7700
I do not think $10,000 is all that out of touch, especially $10K Canadian.
Don't forget, the Canadian dollar is now worth more than the sinking US dollar.
I don't also don't think $10,000 is all that out of touch for the same reasons okfoz said. These are few and far between, especially in great shape. Condition dictates a lot. Also, I agree, spring would get better results. But you never know. I bought mine in fall and paid a little more than $10,000Cdn (came back appraised for more than twice that).
According to ASC They made the Cavalier Convertible thru 1999, and the Sunbird vert thru 1997.
What is more interesting is ASC claims the conversion for the Camaro thru 2002 but the Firebird thru 1997... I know that the Firebird still had a vert until 2002, and I would only assume that ASC would have made a vert from 1998 thru 2002 since they did the camaro... Its an Enigma
ASC claim's to have done alot of different convertible's for GM that they never did,my uncle work's for GM on the assembly line,all that ASC did on the Camaro's and Firebird's was install the convertible top frame and top.
__________________ Junior Johnston
SCB AutoTrim
2565 B W. Bennett
Springfield,Mo
(417)869-7700
Not to twist hairs, I am honestly curious, how would your uncle know what they installed or did not install on the 4th gens when he did not work for the plant in Ste Therese?
Here are the MI plants I could find for GM
Flint (Truck & Bus)
Flint (Buick Town)
Lansing (A) & (B)
Hamtramick
Pontiac (Truck & Bus)
Willow Run
Detroit
Detroit (CADILLAC)
Orion
I am not sure if GM has manufacturing facilities in Dearborn I know Ford has a huge plant in the area. Could he have lived in Dearborn and worked at another plant?
THats the Autoform Roadster conversion... From what I understand they were only available thru dealerships when new. Kind of like the 86 & early 87 Camaros and 86-89 Firebirds by ASC. Some say that they were originally authorized by GM, If that were the case then they would have had a different VIN.
Junior Johnston
