ConvertiblesDiscussed here are problems and solutions to convertible specific questions, including difficult to find part numbers and other convertible tech help.
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OK guys as near as I can tell this car is an '89 or a '90 GTA convertible with a 350. It has PBR rear discs, analog guages, grey leather seats, red paint, black top, black wheels (which look like they may have red at one time), and thats about all I can see. It is in really pretty good shape outside and the interior looks really nice too. It is for sale at this dirtbag used car lot here in Toledo. No one came out while I was looking the car over so I dont know what they want for it, dont know what year it really is, or if they even know what they have. It does not appear that it has been wrecked or anything, but I was not able to see under the hood. What is this thing?
VIN = 1G2FW2183KL231568
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86 IROC, Superram 383, TKO 600, C4 IRS swap in progress
91 Trans Am, LB9, T5
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I know the difference between a TA and a GTA. This car does not have fender vents, and it has GTA badges on it. I realize that all the GTA stuff could be had on a TA, but I am 99% sure this car is a real GTA. Again, if it is for some reason a fake, someone sure when to a lot of trouble to make it a fake. Besides if it is just a TA, and someone dressed it up as a GTA, the joke is on them because a Trans Am in this configuration would be more rare than a GTA. After I thought about it, I am almost positive it is an '89 because I dont remember seeing an airbag, which would denote it as being a '90. No one was there so I couldnt look under the hood or in the console for RPO codes. Basically what I told you guys is all I know about it. I just saw it, and wanted to wave the flag on here about it because I dont have the funds to acquire it at this time. ( my IROC requires all my extra dough, I dont need a GTA to help my IROC soak up all my extra money) I dont know the name or number of the lot, but I drive by it every day,so I'll try to get it tomorrow and post it on here. I am not a drop top expert, but how many of these things were made by ASC? I saw in an old post that there were something like 200 5.7L drop tops?
Do you have the vin #? If not look at it next time you're there, the 10th digit should by K for 1989 the 8th digit should be 8 for a 5.7 litre and the 6th digit should be 3 for a two door convertible.
That's because prior to the 91/92 Birds, there weren't any factory conversions. Only dealer conversions. So, when they rolled out of the factory, they were ALL hardtops.
1) The car is on the ASC list, for 1989, it is number 68 of 139 ( I have yet to find 15 VINS)
2) the car was puchased brand new as a convertible by the first owner, a dealer would order a Firebird T-top car and have it drop shipped to ASC in MI and then ASC would ship it to the participating dealership. Other than the VIN and the missing RPO it is Identical to a factory Convertible.
The premice that they are a "DEALER CONVERSION" is not true. ALL OFFICIAL 3rd GEN VERTS WERE DONE BY ASC, this car is not "Official" but it was done by the same company and therefore has the same quality as if it was an authroized convertible. To go a step further ALL 3rd gen verts started as a T-top car and were converted, NONE were done by GM, all were done by ASC.
One thing that I have found is that the 89 350 verts on ebay are getting more than a 91 & 92 with the same miles similar condition which are "Official" verts...
__________________ 87 FORMULA - 5.1 LB9/A4 T-tops 3.73 Modified (Yellow/Black)
87 FORMULA - 5.0 LB9/M5 T-tops 3.45 (Yellow/Gray)
89 FORMULA 350 - CONVERTIBLE 3.27 All original (Red/Gray) www.3rdgenformula.com
How is it not a "dealer Conversion", when...I dunno? The dealer had them converted? Sounds like a Dealer Conversion to me. Nobody ever said the dealers themselves converted them.
Well I looked at the car again today. I cant believe I didnt notice earlier but the door handles have been shaved, and the cowl area has been painted red. The rims also look like they were gold, then red, and now black. Overall though, the car is still in good shape. The gaps all line up and the car appears to be OK overall. If anyone wants the number of the dealer I can get it. I still have no idea if the guy knows what it is or what he wants for it.
That's because prior to the 91/92 Birds, there weren't any factory conversions. Only dealer conversions. So, when they rolled out of the factory, they were ALL hardtops.
I guess that all depends on your definition of what is factory and what is not. At some point GM had a licensing agreement with GM, I'm guessing it was around 89 since I've never seen what appears to be a customer converted car past 1988 although at this point the actual date is just my opinion based on what I've seen and definitely not fact. So in that case, they'd have to be factory approved, authorized, whatever. At the very least, GM was well aware of it and these cars were turned into convertibles right next to Camaros that had 'correct' VIN numbers.
ASC didnt convert hardtop cars, they were ALL t-top cars.
Well I looked at the car again today. I cant believe I didnt notice earlier but the door handles have been shaved, and the cowl area has been painted red. The rims also look like they were gold, then red, and now black. Overall though, the car is still in good shape. The gaps all line up and the car appears to be OK overall. If anyone wants the number of the dealer I can get it. I still have no idea if the guy knows what it is or what he wants for it.
let me get the number I will get them a call and see what the story is. I have been lookinnng for one for months now
When I hear "Dealer Conversion" I immediately think of a car that was at a dealership and converted in-house. MadMax is correct, After 1988 there is no evidence of a customer supplying a car to ASC to have it converted, they were all done before the dealer took delivery and first owner took delivery.
A perfect example of a "Dealer Conversion" would be the C&C T-top cars. From what I can tell a dealership could order the kit and install it on site. Or they could send it to a specific conversion center, the cars were not drop shipped to C&C and then sent to a dealership like the 89 & 90 Firebird Verts were.
Although the 89's do not have the Vin, nor do they have the RPO, I personally feel as though they are as factory as factory can get without being "Factory" considering everything, including the fact that the camaros were made exactly the same way. As far as value goes, look at the Yenko Camaros or the Berger cars from the late 60's, They were a "Dealer conversion" yet they are sought after, they have the right stuff. Likewise since GM did not "Authorize" a convertible until 1991 for Pontiac, and since GM did not "Autorize" a 350 in a convertible F-body until 1993/4 it makes these cars rather special as they are sought after...
I still find it really curious that my title staes "Convertible" yet the VIN is clearly a 2...
John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MeanZ
Well I looked at the car again today. I cant believe I didnt notice earlier but the door handles have been shaved, and the cowl area has been painted red. The rims also look like they were gold, then red, and now black. Overall though, the car is still in good shape. The gaps all line up and the car appears to be OK overall. If anyone wants the number of the dealer I can get it. I still have no idea if the guy knows what it is or what he wants for it.
That car was on e-bay a few months ago... Did not meet reserve, I think it got to 15,000 or something.
Birdman,
If your going to sell a car right now is best time as people are going to be getting INcome tax refunds soon
JOhn
Last edited by okfoz; 04-18-2007 at 08:24 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Well I looked at the car again today. I cant believe I didnt notice earlier but the door handles have been shaved, and the cowl area has been painted red. The rims also look like they were gold, then red, and now black. Overall though, the car is still in good shape. The gaps all line up and the car appears to be OK overall. If anyone wants the number of the dealer I can get it. I still have no idea if the guy knows what it is or what he wants for it.
You just answered the question I was going to ask you. I recall in the middle of last year there was a dealer in Lima that had a GTA for sale. The shaved handles turned me off. I THINK he had $10K on the window, although I never saw what he officially wanted for it. It had been on E-Bay a couple of times by this person. I don't know if they are affiliated with the Toledo group or not though. I definately liked the looks of it through pictures anyways.
* Just saw okfoz's post. Looks like this car has passed a couple of dealers now. $15K and reserve not met. Damn
