I am hoping that this would become a sticky. What I would like to do here is have one or two posts for each of the different types of Convertible Conversions. There were at least a dozen companies that made 3rd Gen convertibles, and they seem to be growing. I DO NOT WANT THIS TO BE A POST FEST, with stupid comments like, "That is cool," or, "I want one of those," etc. This is purely for Historical purposes. By far the most popular is ASC Firebirds Produced by ASC from 1987 - 1989 Prior to production. Identical to the Camaro year for year, except for some minor cosmetic treatments. If anyone has pictures of other conversions, please feel free to post them. The intent of the thread is to have an abbreviated listing and some pictures showing each known type. ?? - 1985 ASC Camaro Convertibles 82 - 1986 ASC Camaro convertibles Source ASC (from article in Chevy enthusiast ) ?? - 1986 ASC Firebird Convertibles (3 known Detroit Auto Show cars) 173 - 1987 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC 104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC 330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)

The next most popular would be the Autoform Convertibles. Unique with its 2 seat approach.

Here is some Hi-Line Convertibles

Matrix3 Convertible

International Coach Builders

John Greenwood Convertible

Straman Convertible

One thing I will note is that Stramman was actually one of the few companies to continue doing conversions after ASC got into the game.

Custom Automotive Restyling (CAR)

Buffalo Conversions Corp

I wish there was a better pic of this one...

Coach Conversions, Inc.
1983 Firebird (from Craigslist)

How do you tell if a camaro convertible is factory or custom? I have a 84' berlinetta conv. and would like to know.

Anything prior to 1987 is a "Custom". ASC started doing "Official" conversions for 1987.

If I had to guess your car appears to be a Matrix3 conversion...

thanks for the info,

the 6 digit on your vin it will be either 1-2-or 3
the #3 is a planned
1 is a hard top
2 is a t top

Question about a Matrix 3 conversion. Would the top be different than an ASC conversion? What overall would be different? Were they done prior to the ASC conversions in 86 or afterwards just by Matrix 3?

Interested because I am looking at buying the 84 on here.

the fabric will fit on any top Matrix{III} there is no remarks when you order a new top replacement. With this in mind one will asume that all manufactures had copied the ASC designe

But if Matrix III did 1984 conversions wouldn't it be different than ASC or did ASC copy it. I was looking at one Matrix III and it looked like it had velco on the back part. Maybe it was an illusion.

Yes Matrix would probably be different than any other top, I suspect that each company made their own tops, and their own frames... so you probably will have to make something to fix a frame, and any good upholstery shop should be able to make you a replacement top from the top you have...

John

There was no 1, T-tops were not indicated by the VIN, either you have a coupe (2) or a convertible (3) keep in mind that is for 1987 and after, from 1982 thru 1986 IIRC the 6th and 7th digit are as follows:

1982 thru 1986 - 87 = the coupe, 67 = a Convertible.

John

Ive got an 84 Z28 autoform convertible. I will post pictures as soon as I figure out how. What I am trying to figure out is how much to insure mine for. Any ideas what a clean Z of this kind is worth? Mine also has a 350 four bolt main shift kit and a disc brake rear end. I know the engine is not original (but runs great!) but wonder if the rar end is factory or not. I've had two other 84 Z's and neither of them had a disc brake rear.

4 wheel disc brakes were an option every year... It was not available on every model every engine combination, but for the Z28 in 1984, I am pretty sure you could have gotten it with the LG4 or L69...

John

One thing I have not seen and was wondering if anyone knew is if any of the planned (6th digit in VIN a 3) conversions were power rather than manual?

I do not think I understand the question...

The Factory "VIN 3" cars were all manual, I think it really had to do with the complexity of the top and with the tonneau cover it would have been quite difficult or expensive. I think another limiting factor would have been the fact of the extra weight a power top would have imposed on the car, add to that the verts were heavy and less aero-friendly than their coupe cousins.

THere were obviously several other conversions out there, I think there were some doing a power top too...

John

John,

I think you answered my question. On my '69 convertible I have a power top but on the '88 IROC to take the top down I had to it manually.

I guess your response was that the 3rd gen convertibles did not come with the power operated convertible, all were manual operation?

I am looking for another 3rd gen convertible IROC and wanted to get a power operated one if they made them, but I can take that off my list of "nice to have options"! :-)

Bruce

You may find an aftermarket converted car that had a power top, but not an ASC, who did all of the factory conversions from 1987 - 2002

John

I have a 1989 base Firebird convertable with an ASC tag on the door post.
is it considered a factory order, is it rare, are parts available or common with non-converts, or common to Camaro converts? I need a new trunk lid & weatherseals.

look at your 8th digit if it is a 1 it was a hardtop, if it was 2 it was a ttop, if it was a 3 it was planned by gm to become a convertable. that ASC tag is usually on the door but that compay was the group that made the car into the convertable alot of dealers took the hard top or ttop and converted them theirselves by buying the kit and sending them to the local autobody shop. Regarding you truck lid there is a compay called 3rd gen ranch in the states if you live in Canada there is a guy in a local web site called Kijji that is selling the parts you need

The 8th digit in the VIN is the engine. It's the 6th digit that is for the body type.

It was not until 1991 did Pontiac officially have a Convertible Firebird/Trans AM and was designated by the "3" in the 6th digit of the VIN to indicate it was ordered as a Convertible. Prior to that, all Firebird/Trans AM/GTA/Formulas that were Convertibles were done at a dealership level and do not indicate it in the VIN because it was after the fact.

No, its technically not a Factory Order car, however it was more than likely converted prior to the dealership taking delivery. The ASC Convertibles were Ordered then drop shipped to ASC, converted and then shipped to the participating Dealer. However, considering that it is an ASC it is as close to being a Factory order car as you can get without it actually being designated as such. Every part that I had the opportunity to look at has GM part numbers on it. The clips that hold the trim pieces on the rockers for example I was able to get thru a local dealership.

Yes it is Rare by running the numbers. There were just over 600 of them made from 1986 thru 1989. There were 324 made in 1989 alone, however you are fortunate, as I am willing to share whatever research with you that I have if your willing to work with me on your car.

What I know is there were 39 V6 Firebirds and 58 V8 Firebirds or Formulas in 1989. I would be inclined to get you your sequence number in those cars if you like.

Those are common parts to Camaro Convertibles. Metro makes a Seal kit for Camaros that will work on the Firebird of the same year. As far as I know the trunk lid is identical to the Camaro Convertible, except obviously the Camaro has different hole locations for the spoiler.

If you have any parts that you need, post it in the forum and someone here should be able to tell you what it is the same as. The trim piece on the rockers is the same as a Sunbird or Cavalier for example...

John

173 - 1987 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
104 - 1988 ASC Firebird convertibles - Source ASC
330 - 1989 ASC Firebirrd convertibles - Source ASC (Note Dealer order logs have only 324)[/quote]



This above is not entirely true, Pontiac brought back the convertible by ASC in 91, other then that pontiac never had a convertible before that since 69,

if so there not factory and dont really have any value as a real gm ordered convertible IMO

I'm trying to figure out what your trying to say, the Title of the thread happens to be "(non factory) 3rd Gen Convertibles" The truth is ASC did almost all of GM's convertible programs in the 80's and 90's except for a few. The only exception that I can think of was the Oldsmobile Cutlass from the late 80's to early 90's which was done by C&C IIRC.

FACT: ASC did all of the "Factory" F-body convertible conversions at an ASC facility from 1987-1992 (Camaro from 1987 - 1992 & Firebird 1991 & 1992)
FACT: ASC supplied the convertible components for 4th Gens as well, but they were done in a separate section at the factory in Canada.
FACT: ASC also did Dealer conversions of the F-body from 1986 & 1987 for the Camaro and 1987 - 1989 on the Firebird. These cars were produced side by side with the "Factory" cars, there was no structural differences in the cars.
FACT: ASC did the WS6 conversions from 1998 - 2002 and even the Collector Edition Yellow WS6 cars.

John

John- I agree with all you said above but wanted to add a few notes.
I have found ASC (dealer) conversion Camaros from '85 and Firebirds from '86. That would extend the year range you listed above.
I know these are not listed in your official ASC build counts, but neither are many other dealer ordered ASC convertibles like
Monte Carlos or pre-84 Eldorados.

You are correct that ASC built all the other official GM convertibles of the era except the '90-95 Cutlass Supreme. C&C built that
one and was going to build the '90 Beretta convertible (that was canceled just before introduction). In fact, ASC built almost
every convertible of the era, including the Celica, Nissan 240SX, Infiniti M30, Saab 900, Renault Alliance, etc.

Slim,
I considered adding the "3" 1986 Firebirds... However its just rumor, I know of Two of them, both in MI, so I did not include them intially.

Do you by chance have the production figures for the Autoform Cars??? It would be nice to add to the list

Thanks

John

I need to go through my records to count them up, but I have seen a number of '85-86 ASC F-bodies over the years. I wish I had official counts for the rest of the off-beat ASC conversions. I am amazed you were able to get counts for what you have. Most records for these aftermarket conversions are long gone.
I really think you or someone needs to start an AutoForm registry thread. Have members post their car's model, year and the serial number on the door jamb tag. In short time, you will be able to approximate production totals for each year. I have been able to do that on the Straman cars. I have saved tag numbers for a dozen or so AutoForm cars, so that would give the effort a jump start.

I have an asc 88 gta

what kind of money can someone expect to pay for a conversion. i have an 86 t-top i would love to have done.

It would be A LOT cheaper to just go buy a Vert if you are paying someone to to do it.

Nobody does it on a mass level anymore.

yeah...i have had this car since i was 16.....it wont be the same car if i buy another one. i am thinking of getting a 91 vert for the wife to play with. she loves that style. however, i think i may try and find a wreck and convert this myself. does anyone have any experience with this

Back in the day and in 1980's money, it was at least $4000, usually closer to $6000 to have a T-top converted. There are advantages to buying one done...

Just for pieces and parts, keep in mind,
If by some chance you found a nice Wrecked Vert, your probably looking at about $600 - $1000 for the car, at a minimum from a junkyard. If its hurt too bad then the parts are useless. Your better off looking for a V6 ro a RS that has a blown motor or something that is not cosmetic. A Front end crunch would easily bend and twist those parts that you need, specifically the subframe connectors

Then you start hacking off your top, and you need to modify the front fenders,

Interestingly I believe that the Cavalier and the Sunbird conversions used similar pieces, so the sub-frames might be the same, of course the wheelbase is slightly longer on those cars, so you would have to trim down the subframes to get it to work.

You add to the fact that I would not do it without replacing all of the weather seals... which has been about $700 or so for the complete kit. Even if you got a nice car, chances are you will have to replace the header panels for Bow #1 and the windshield header trim piece. that's another $300 from Hawks.

Paint (by a Pro) will cost at least $2000, I bought my paint and it cost me $2000 for a complete repaint. Of course that included sandpaper, and primer, not just the paint.

My suggestion is not get attached to a car, been there, done that. Sure its your first car, and sure its sentimental, but it is a Thing, and that thing can be replaced. Also If you get your wife a Vert as you mentioned, you may find that you do not want two convertibles. Honestly I have one of each, a T-top, hard top and a Convertible... The most fun car is the Hard top... Of course it is a 5 speed, but it is just fun. I like the convertible, but I am not much of a sun worshiper...

All in all, for all your hard work you will be out at least $4000 by the time your done, and that will be if you are lucky.

Honestly tho, it is fun to dream, and that is not a bad thing, it keeps us motivated.

John

I was curious how many of these had the roll bar speedster style look like on mine, and if any one can point me towards the company that did my conversion, my mechanic said the frame was extra braced, so I'm guessing it was done by a company that did alot of these, it seems to be manual but is a pain in the *** to put the top up and down by myself, much easier with 2 people, and I have a button on the dash that says up, but it don't do anything and I don't see a motor anywhere for the top, but not sure what else the button could be for, it would be nice to make automatic, or hopefully get it working, mine is a 84 model z28 and I just bought it didn't get too much history.

Just so you know, the roll bar was added much later. It was not standard to any of the convertible conversions.
Show us a photo of the header latch area above the windshield and one of the back seat sidewalls without the tonneau that covers up part of it and I might be able to narrow down a converter. Also, look for an etched number near the driver side top latch on the top frame that might read something like ST1024 or something and that would make it a Straman conversion.

EDIT: I see that you have asked this on another thread so I will go there to continue the discussion.

I have a 1987 camaro convertible by ASC, v-6, 2.8

Is your '87 ASC car have the "20th Anniv" pouch on the dash or is it a pre-production ASC convertible without the pouch that has the limited edition number on the dash. If so, what is the number?

Slim,
It would have to be a pre-production car, as they only offered the LG4/A4 and LB9/M5 as options in 1987...

That's what I was assuming, but I would also like to know the number on the dash from vicman so we can start to trace the number of "special editions" were built in '87. What is the highest number you have ever seen?

Found this pic on R. Straman conversions, says 608 were built. I am not sure about the validity of this, I just thought it would be a good addition to the archives.

For the record....they did NOT build 608 f-body convertibles. I spoke with someone related to the company and Straman inflated production counts for this article (comes from 1991 in Automobile magazine) The count is probably near half this amount. Thanks for posting, though.

Slim is your guy when it comes to some of this stuff... He has done a ton of homework on the 3rd gen verts...

Maybe because I don't look for them, but I just do not see that many Stramman verts, I see a lot of the Autoform (apparently around 600 made) or ASC converted Verts (Non "factory"). about 750 - 800 including (600+ Firebirds and something around 250 Camaros)


John

Hello All, Not sure if this is the correct way to introduce myself or not but I just now became a Member. I recently (Last Week) purchased a beautiful Red with Beige Interior and Top ASC 1992 Convertible with 112xxx Original Miles. I am 3rd Owner, It has only been driven apprx. 5000 miles in the last 6 yrs. It still looks like a new one, it was in a Friend of mines Dad's Car Collection, but he passed away 10 Month's ago and everything is being Sold. I'm now trying to Research everything I can about these Cars. I would Gladly like to hear from anyone who knows about them. Thank you and I'm already enjoying what I have read so far.

Being a 1992 it would be considered a Factory convertible. ASC did most of GM's convertible conversions in the era. Start a new thread and post some pictures.

Congrats.... John