osso12

Color is original to the car, paint is not. It has been painted once 10 years ago.
Im curious as to who in fact did the conversion, and how rare is the car or is it even rare?

305 Carb, 700R.

Car was on ebay about three years ago and did not sale. I think the bid was up to like 3k at the time.
Any and all info is appreciated.

osso12

osso12

osso12

osso12

osso12

slimwhitman

That is not an ASC, Straman or AutoForm for sure. Please take some photos of the back seat area with the top down or up, but without the tonnau cover. Each company resolved how they cover up the "guts" of the conversion differently next to and behind the rear seats. Also... show us the latching system above the windshield a bit more clearly.

osso12

Okie dokie. Will do. Thanks Much!

osso12

I am going to try to get pics of the inside tomorrow. I ran out of daylight.
I think i have narrowed it down to one of these 8 companies.
Does this sound right?

1. John Greenwood
2. ASC Inc.
3. ChooChoo
4. Matrix3
5. Coach Conversions
6. Hi-Line Kustoms
7. R. Straman
8. California Convertible Co

osso12

ok. as promised.

osso12

any ideas fellas? slimwhitman?
So that would narrow it down to
1. John Greenwood
2. ChooChoo
3. Matrix3
4. Coach Conversions
5. Hi-Line Kustoms
6. California Convertible Co

Were any of these company's ever located in Dallas Texas at all?

osso12

someone surely pick this up.

slimwhitman

Hold on, Osso, I need to rifle through my archive!

osso12

osso12

Id like a copy of your archive once you find it just in case we need a backup.

okfoz

Osso,
I was wondering if you could take some pictures of your header... where the top meets the windshield. (with the top down) I find it interesting that the conversion may have been done on a hard top not a T-top car... but I would need some pix of your header...

John

osso12

I will see what I can do John.
If I remember correctly, I was thinking my late step grandfather said it came from the factory as a hard top... He did not mention T tops...
But again, that was back in 85 when he was telling this. A lot has slipped my memory in 25 years..LOL....
I have noticed most conversions did start out as T top cars..
I think once we compile some information on my car I think we will realize its kinda rare just by the way it was converted. My 2 cents. I have seen lots of pics of third gen conversions, but not none exactly like my car. Thats why I am interested. The car was handed down from me from family, and family has forgotten most that was discussed about it. My late grandfather picked it up new in 1985 with only a few miles on it. He picked it up from an auto auction from the 1st owener. The car had like 2k miles on it or so when he got it. My grandfather passed in 91... So that only gave about 6 yrs or so that he actually did anything with the car. He did not drive it much, if at all. Of course when he passed his wife my grandma got the car. She drove it hardly none. She passed in 04, then my mom took over. Mom drove it a little bit. It has 83k miles on it at present.
Nothing has been done to it as far as major work. One repaint, this is the second top. It has been on the car 10 yrs. A couple sets of tires, about 3 or 4 batterys, and a starter that I put on myself. Thats it. The more and more I drive it I cherish it as its sentimental at this point as it belonged to my grandma and pa. Im sure they would both be proud that we have kept it this long. After grandma passed in 04, mom drove it daily for about 2 - 3 weeks id say regularly. After that she saw she was not going to drive it much more and put it on ebay. She wanted 6k for it. The high bid got up to 4k and mom did not sale. She put it on ebay a second time. Same scenario same price. It got to 4k and stopped. That has been 3 or 4 years ago. I plan on keeping it and not selling. No reason to sale. But, id kinda like to know as much about it as possible. I want to say he said the conversion was done in Dallas, but i cant be 100% sure.

okfoz

I really cant tell in the pix, but what sticks out to me as the most unique part of it is what appears to be a metal band that goes around the bottom of the ragtop. Typically that band is either not there, or it is hidden in the top itself under the fabric.

The car appears to have been a hard top, The reason I came to this conclusion is the width of the A-pillar is the same as the width of the distance between the Windshield and T-tops on a factory T-top car. The distance between the windshield and the top appears to be slightly longer than the width of the A-pillar. This is mostly apparent in the last pic of post #5...

This would not be the first car (3rd gen) that I suspect was converted from a hard-top to Convertible either There was a 1987 Formula 350 that looked very similar to your car as far as conversion... I do not have great pictures, but what I have it appears to be very similar, The car was in Deluth Minnesota.


Is your car like this?

John

osso12

Good job. Looks like it could be?
Ill try to get those pics of the windshield header today for you.

osso12

on a nother note, ill try to find pics of the original top...
I do not know if that band you see on mine was added to the outside on the second top trans plant.. Ill try to find some older pics..

osso12

okfoz

I am positive that it was a hard top conversion, not a T-top conversion...

I posted the trunk section of the 1987 Formula, does your car look like that in the weld area on your car as well? It may indicate that it was converted by the same company....

osso12

You posted what and where?

osso12

reminder bump

osso12

I guess my car is a total freak of nature.. I have searched and searched for a pic close to anything like mine including this site.. Ill bet some one on this site has one identical and is not coming forward, or its a total mystery as to who did the conversion. Someone had to.
The car in post #1 of this thread looks very very close. It mentions ASC in florida...
is it possible that mine is an ASC conversion even though it is being contradicted?
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cama...le-2550-a.html

osso12

okfoz,
do you have any more information on the Hi-Line convertibles as mentioned in post #3 of this thread?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/conv...y-3rd-gen.html

Do you know if that company is specific to the 1985 model?

okfoz

I do not think your car is a hi-line... The reason I say this is the trunk appears to be smaller on the Hi-Line than your car...

ASC's had a tonneau cover, so I am 99.999% sure that yours is not an ASC... Even 1985 ASC Camaros that I have seen had a tonneau cover.

it honestly may be a one of a kind, it really does not resemble any other car that I know of at this point except possibly the Formula in Deluth that I posted... you might be able to trace it backwards, see if you can figure out who was the first owner and see if he can tell you something about the car...

John

osso12

wow John... My car must be a tad rare as we are both still guessing. Could be a good thing I guess. If once we figgure it out, you are more than welcome to post it in your sticky thread you made for future reference.

*edit* I went back to that photo of the HI-line... The trunk does appear to be much smaller on the other car.

osso12

Ok...doing pretty good here. We seemed to have narrowed it down from
the 20 or so we started with. I think that leaves us with about 4-5 other possibility's

1. John Greenwood
2. Matrix3
3. Coach Conversions
4. California Convertible Co

osso12

I now understand what you are saying. Yes, it looks Identical in that weld area..
Ill try to post a pic of that area tommorrow..

Do you have more pics of this same car?

Camaro Z Man

I know you dont think its an AutoForm vert, but I had a 84 Z28 autoform vert about 5 years ago. All the vert parts look just the same as mine. I would say jack the car up and look under it to see if it has an X brace under it. If it does you wont miss it. If it has the X brace its an AutoForm. Hope this help you.

Camaro Z Man

Forgot to say also I can tell by the headder that it was a hard top, just like my 84 was.

osso12

Great. Ill check that tommorrow. Maybe I can get the car up high enough and take some pics of the underside. I have been under before many years ago to replace the starter but I do not recall the braces, but come to think of it the starter was bitch to remove because of pipes and no way hardly to lower the pipes. Lets see what that road will lead to. Maybe others will chime in on auto form. Hate to put back on the list if it don't need to be. Also, you know my next question. Do you have any photos of your vert?

Camaro Z Man

There should be subframe connectors also that run along the rockers all the way to the front wheel well area. When it gets ap by the front wheel it will curve up to the wheel well. These are not clean looking like a ASC vert. These are not built into the unibody. Its like they just weld them to the bottom of the car.
I wish I had some pics of the car now, but I just bought it to resell, so I didnt bother with getting any pics.

okfoz

All Autoforms that I know of were 2 seaters, they removed the back seat for the top. And there was a very small trunk opening. I am 99.9% sure it is not an autoform.

I do not believe it is a greenwood either, the top is not right for the pix of Greenwoods I have seen.

The Matrix3 conversions the top snapped more to the side of the car, so I do not think it is that either.

C.A.R. Custom Automotive restyling the trunk is longer than yours.

International Coach, is the closest thing I could think it may be...

John

osso12

"All Autoforms that I know of were 2 seaters, they removed the back seat for the top. And there was a very small trunk opening. I am 99.9% sure it is not an autoform.

I do not believe it is a greenwood either, the top is not right for the pix of Greenwoods I have seen.

The Matrix3 conversions the top snapped more to the side of the car, so I do not think it is that either.

C.A.R. Custom Automotive restyling the trunk is longer than yours.

International Coach, is the closest thing I could think it may be..."

I agree with John about the Autoform..... all 2 seaters...
John, I was not aware of International coach.. Ill add that to the list..
Have any pics of an international coach by chance?

Ok, on the underside of the car there are no x overs.
There are the subframe connectors that run along side the rocker panels.

This is the best I can do as far as a pic.....

osso12

Is "Coach Conversions" and "International Coach" one and the same?

osso12

So we have solved the mystery on who built it ya think?

okfoz

I have no idea... honestly if Slimwhitman, chimes in he may know better...

John

osso12

I think at last note he was looking for his archive.....

slimwhitman

osso12 - I like you. You're politely persistant.

I am narrowing it down and will give you my reply tomorrow. This is taking me a while to go thru... you owe me a beer.

I do not have an obvious answer yet. One option you might try is to find out what Chevy dealership the car was sold new at and check with them. Sometimes an old-timer might still work there and he remembers what company they bought thier conversions from. They probably bought a couple and they would have all probably come from the same coach buiilder. There should be a way to find out what dealership the car came from, right?

osso12

Thanks Slim.. I did not mean to rush you. I know these things take time and usually pay off in the end. I appreciate anything you can gather on the subject.
I think what I am going to do is run a carfax report on it to see what it comes up with. I have no idea what dealer or what state the car was sold in.
I can only assume Tx...but by grand folks have passed and my mom don't remember much at all about what my grand folks told us. My grand pop passed when he was fairly young.. 56.... he had many stories to tell and I am sure he could tell me any question I have about the car unfortunately he is not around any longer to ask. But, you gave me an idea...
I wonder if the tax office / DMV could disclose anything to me if I provided them with the vin? Yes, I owe you one.

slimwhitman

I was thinking the dealership could be traced with GM historical (or whatever they are called). Just an assumption. I am sure the topic has been discussed at 3rdGen.org before.

slimwhitman

Well, I was not able to get you a definitive answer. This is the list of all the ’82-90 F-body conversions I have seen to date. Others probably exist (I find out about new conversions almost weekly on some make and model). The first five listed below are possibilities, only because I do not have good photos of them. The rest were obviously different by the way they latch, the trunk size or the way they hid the top mechanicals beside the rear seats.

I did not see any with that silver trim piece at the rear of the top. That is distinctive. Your latching mechanism was a common one used on many of the various coach convertibles of the era.

Keep in mind that many of the conversions listed below could actually be the same conversion kit that was installed by several different coach builders.

National Coach Engineering:I do not have any photos of this one.
Autodyne Corp: I am yet to find a solid reference that this conversion exists, so I know nothing about it.
Coach Builders Ltd: My photos are tiny of this.
AHA Manufacturing: I do not have photos of this.
Buffalo Conversion Corp: Cannot determine, my photos are terrible of this one.
R. Straman Company: No, different latch & concealed top mech. next to back seat and tiny trunk.
Auto Form Corp.(2-seater): No, Obvious reasons
Matrix3: No, different latch & concealed top mech next to bk seat
International Coach: Close. Similar latch and trunk lid, but the trim inside, above the rear wheel wells and around the back (below the back window) are different.
Convertible Concepts: No, tiny trunk lid.
Greenwood: No, base of conv top does not line up with top of side doors and the top mech. beside the rear seats is covered.
Hi-Line Customs: No, tiny trunk lid.
ASC Inc: Hard tonneau cover over stowed top
California Convertible Co: No, looks like ASC with hard tonneau cover
Coach Conversions: No, tiny trunk lid.
American Custom Coachworks: No, same trunk lid size, but top mech next to rear seat is enclosed and latches are different.
ChooChoo: No, ChooChoos are either by ASC or Cal Conv Co with the same hard tonnau cover over stowed top.
Griffith: No, base of conv top does not line up with top of side doors.

To see a written tally of all my coach convertible research, go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_convertible
And please keep us updated if you even get a solid answer to this mystery. Sorry I could not help more.

If anyone reading this has info/photos/brochures on any of the cars listed above, please let me know! -Slim

osso12

Yes and thanks. Well this one may close in a mystery, but I hope not.
It was your write up that I started the tally with. Did not realize this was your write up. Good Job!

Not sure if this will help but I talked to my brother last night about it and he was 98% SURE that my grand paps told HIM that the car was sent to CALIFORNIA for the conversion process. I had not heard that till last night. In fact, I thought it may have been Texas...
I talked to a tax office accountant today and they can only go back so far.
She told me to call TXDOT for a full title history to go all the back..Not sure what at all if anything it will reveal, but it may be worth a try.


So that leads us back up to five once more:

1. National Coach Engineering
2. Autodyne Corp: (1982)
3. Coach Builders Ltd: (1982)
4. AHA Manufacturing: (1983)
5. Buffalo Conversion Corp: (1984)

slimwhitman

None of the above companies were based in Cali.
NCE was in Michigan.
Autodyne (I still have no proof this company existed, so take them off your list).
CBL was in Florida (company still exists and is named Drop-Top Customs, but they have no old records or photos).
AHA was in Eastern Canada.
Buffalo was in Buffalo, NY (and probably just a small-time body shop).

Guess that leaves you at square one. Check my master list on wiki every now and then. I add new conversions when I find them. Just found 3 new ones this week (not F-body).

osso12

Thanks Slim so much. Wow incredible what we have found so far.
I guess its my turn. I am going to see what I can do as far as running title history on the car. May take me a while as I have so many irons in the fire these days. lol...

osso12

2/24/10
*update*
Turns out that my car is in EX show car that was auctioned off to my grand parents in 1986 from
kruse International. www.kruseinternational.com
Way cool. Car had 4,800 miles on it. I had previously thought it had about 20k but I was wrong.
My grandfather was the winning bid on the auction.
William "Bill" Kester from Hereford Texas (J&L Sales) took the car to the auction to have it auctioned
off. William is the first one the car was titled to. So that is a starting point. I need to research
J & L sale, and see if we can find Bill. If we can find Bill, we can determine which chevy dealership
sold him the car and maybe who did the conversion. As you will see in the photos, I have
all the documentation of when the car sold off the auction block including a consignment sheet
and other documentation not pictured.
Just one more reason to hang on to the car in my opinion. I love cars that have a story behind them!

slimwhitman

How did you find that?!?

I did a quick web search and it looks like Bill could be deceased?
This looks like a possible spouse/relative?
Sue Kester
220 Beach St
Hereford, TX 79045
(806) 364-8711
Can't hurt to call.

osso12

Mom had these documents and gave them to me yesterday.
I did not know she had them, and I don't even think she knew that she did..
I just looked at my consignment paper and it gives 806-364-1811 POBOX 230
Zip 79045.
Sounds like we have a match. How do you think he is deceased?
I don't want to ask for bill if he has passed...that would suck..