86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

A lot of old timers on this site will remember me. This used to be my 2nd home and I've been away a while. I started out with an 86 Firebird, then I built up an 86 Trans Am. In college I sold that and after I graduated I bought a 91 Z hard top. I put 20k into the 86 Trans Am but I always missed the 91 Z28 the most.

Many vehicles have come and gone since then and last year I bought a Cherokee as a second vehicle. Last week I was browsing Craigslist and stumbled across a 91 Z convertible that mentioned possible trades. Long story short I don't have my Jeep anymore.

Its got 93k miles and a fuel pump issue. Paint is faded pretty good but its solid.
I actually stumbled across a classified ad on here from last year. I guess that's where the guy I got it from bought it.

Its a very solid foundation and just needs some TLC. Can't wait to get her fuel issues ironed out and shined up

springer4

Looks Like a solid trade and pick-up....... Welcome back........

twood

Welcome back. You will have to post some more pictures when it's "shined up".

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

will be following this one. Nice looking vert.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

NICE find! Life is simpler if you cut an access hole above your gas tank to get to the fuel pump. "Trap door" as it's known. Maybe it just needs the fuel filter changed?? Those are cheap($8-12 maybe)..

Goodluck! Keep it out of the snow.. or don't..I did a 180 in a snowy parking lot today after making a wrong turn.. Last time I did that in a camaro was 12 years ago in my first IROC.. Good times.. I missed driving it this summer so I'm playing catchup.

Look into subframe connectors. Stops a lot of body flex and squeaks, makes the car stronger(safer really)..

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

This thing has a load of new parts on it. The fuel pump is one of them, it was actually changed twice. It just doesnt get fuel to start. From what I have been catching up on reading tonight its not the VATS system because the security light doesnt stay on. I was reading another post that mentioned the ICM. Im told Autozone can test them so I may pop that out tomorrow and go see.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Check for spark, injector pulse and fuel pressure.
Go from there.

Check all fuses. , etc...

ROCFATHER

Nice find! I like all 3rd gens but verts are just awesome. Once you drop the top and go for a spin your hooked!!!

Da Spudro

nice find - i too miss my old 91 Z28, but I got what i had been chasing for years with my 92 Vert - if you haven't already check the pump relay and relay fuse and the surrounding wiring.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Here is what I have found so far.

Fuel pump relay is new and works. I even tried a spare new one I have. I put the key in to run position with fuse pulled. I put the fuse in and the relay clicks.

Although, the oil pressure switch is also new, I haven't checked it yet. Can I safely jump the connector for diagnostic purposes?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Do you have fuel at the fuel rail? Just push the srader valve down and check for fuel.
Then if you have fuel , get a fuel gauge on it. Make sure its at the Prob. pressure.
Do you have Injector pulse when you crank the car?
Do you have Spark at the plugs?

You can get a loan a tool at the auto parts store if you dont have a noid light to check injector pulse.

Start with those 3 simple things and go from there.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

NO fuel at the rail, so I'm guessing it its somewhere between the relay and the pump possibly being the new pump still?

Or could it still be something like the ECM not telling the pump to turn on.

I think Im going to reclaim my digital multimeter from my buddy and do as it says in post 14 & 17 in this thread?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...maybe-oil.html

I'm assuming if I test those wires at the relay and its getting power, signal, and sending power I can narrow it down to wiring between the relay/pump or the pump itself.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

You can also flip the back seat down. Pull the carpet up that goes down behind them. The plug for the fuel pump goes thru the sheet metal right there.

Test for power right there when you turn the key on. You should get power for 2seconds then none. If you have power there chances are you have power at the pump and a bad pump. Or a bad connection at the pump.

If you have a power probe you can try and power the pump at that same fitting and see if the pump kicks on.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Flip the back seats down.

SURPRISE!!! As I was already prepared to handle, one of the previous owners did the access door trick. Very Sloppy though. I'll be needing to fix that.

There is three wires going to the tank. I a Black, Gray, and Purple. I tested across all three since I wasnt sure which was positive. I could not come up with anything for 2 seconds after turning the key.

The relay clicks, and clicks again in 2 seconds so I guess this tells us its the wiring between the relay and the pump.

Do you know the route that follows through the car? Does it run down one of the sides or under the console? In theory this should be an easy fix if its just the wiring.

Do you agree thats what it points to?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

The wire goes down and along side the D.side door seal.
Pull off the door seal and you will see it loomed in there. goes upto the lower back seat area and up that way to where it goes thru the sheetmetal.

the grey wire should have power for 2 second soon as you turn the key on.

Im betting on a bad fuel pump. If you hear the relay clicking Its cycling right.
Do you know if the harness is even plugged in under the car?

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I wish people would stop cutting holes in the floors of these cars to get to the fuel pump!

Great looking vert btw!

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

x2,

I just passed up a deal on a 4th gen TA because thats how the guy fixed it.
whats bad is I even told the guy I would do a fuel pump the right way for him. For the same price the guy who was gonna do it the wrong way.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

I don't want to bad mouth it to bad because if it wasnt the guy I bought it off of, it was a guy who is a very active seller on this board in the classifieds. but it looks like it was cut with tin snips, to big, and pealed back.

There is a little extension of it I think Im going to get back into place the best I can and try and weld it back where it was cut. The main part I think Im going to go to a junkyard and cut a piece a few inches bigger and then trim the vert one so its atleast square and rivet the patch over it.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

being its already there. cut out a bigger section from a junkyard. trim yours out.
get some good weatherstripping to seal it. get yourseld some RIVNUTS

this way if you ever have to get back in there you can pop the cover off.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Here is some more pics. Not cleaned up yet but nonetheless some more pics of it

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Today I made a nice little tool to run power back there temporarily and your right. The pump doesn't work. Doesn't run or even make a click or anything. Nothing!

Which brings me to another question. If this is new like its claimed to be... and the way the hole is hacked in it I believe. What could have killed it? I'm sure the original was age, but then what could/would take out a new pump?

mikesz1984

probably a cheap pump, i replaced one in my daily once that lasted a whole 10 km(thats right 10) than it went out.

Da Spudro

it may also not be a bad pump, but more a loose connection inside the tank. i've also had times where i open it up and the pump seems to be fine, but the wiring on the inside of the tank has fragged. either way you're going to have to drop the tank wait you have a hole cut), but it may just be a lose connection.

Tinbender59

I would bet that if the hole is a hack job then the pump install is a hack job as well. I would start there. test ohms between the black and gray wire, bet ya $10 it is wide open,---- no resistance.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't it still show no resistance if the pump were wired but bad? If not I better check that before I order a pump. LOL

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

With a hole back there just pull it out and power the pump. Quickest way to test it.

goliath88

could be the wrong pump. i know my cars' previous owner had that problem before i discovered it. that and a rusty tank will just straight up kill the pump. get that fuel pressure tester.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Tinbender hit it on the head. Pulled the pump today and the connector on the inside of the tank right on the inside of the flange was all messed up. It looked like it had shorted out at one point cause it was melted a little bit. I bought new wire ends that clip into that connector, clipped the connector and now I am good. It was the grey wire that was messed up.

Only thing now is all other wires looked good in there but the fuel gauge doesn't work. Any ideas on that.

BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS.... SHE RUNS GREAT. Its snowing and shes not registered yet so I didn't take her out but no smoke on start up, runs smooth, sounds great. No check engine light.

I cleaned up the cuts in the rear hump. In warmer weather I will seal it up nicely.

lunati397

lol i remember you nice deal always loved the verts

Da Spudro

fuel sending units in these things get damaged REALLY easily. if the sending unit (which is attached to the fuel pump) has been pulled a bunch of times i'd say the sending unit has probably been damaged. i pulled one out of one of my other cars and even though i was what i thought was REDICULOUSLY careful i still managed to bend the metal rheo-stat ("fins") type thing the float connects to. i would ohm test the wires and make sure you see a good spread. can't remember the exact measurements, but much like a throttle positioning sensor, with the float at full tank check the resistance, then slowly move the float to the empty position, the resistance should go up or down smoothly (can't remember exactly which way it goes though) if you see and significant jumps, or any dead spots then that's probably the reason it appears it's not working. the one in my old 91 would read full until it hit a quarter of a tank, once it hit that i knew it was time to gas up. i would put roughly 11 gallons in it when it did register as 1/4 tank.

newer sending units are made a little differently with a metal strip coated in plastic with specific parts open to the metal. those can take alot more abuse then that factory ones with metal "fins", but i'm not sure if the replacement units for these cars use the original fin design or if they've replaced them with the newer style. good luck.

goliath88

Word!!

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

glad ya got it figured out. I had a feeling it was just a wiring issue or a dead pump.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Question... How does a short in the tank not blow up? Is it because there is very little oxygen?

Da Spudro

that's pretty much the answer....but the other part of it is that liquid gas isn't flammable, only the vapors are. since most of the wiring and the pump itself sit below the fuel level (part of the cooling mechanism for the pump) it isn't exposed to the vapor (unless you run it to empty). the parts that are exposed, there isn't proper concentration of fuel/oxygen in the portion of the tank not filled with liquid.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

I cleaned it up today. Still has a lot of oxidation in places. It doesn't show in the pictures but the front clip, blisters, rear 1/4 caps, rear bumper, spoiler, and deck lid could probably be repainted.

Between getting it running for a few $$$ and seeing how well it cleaned up its making me realize the deal I got. I traded an '01 Cherokee that was in great condition but had little $$$ into it. I had maybe $2500 into it including purchase.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Few More

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Last ones

2007xl50

Nice car and seems like a good trade. Glad you got her running. I'm haveing issues with my 92 RS right now. Seems like alot of 3rd gens have fuel pump issues when you get them. The RS is my second 3rd genthis year and the second to give me problems right off the bat. At least my TA is running good. I have to say I wish my Camaor looked that good and was a V8 vert.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Ah Crap! After going through my RPO's I found that the near mint interior in this thing isn't original. I want to go for originality but I'm not sure I want to pull a mint black interior and install a flame red. Plus I sense it will be quite hard to source all the vert interior pieces in equivalent condition in flame red. It may just be staying black.

Da Spudro

original is nice, but i was never a fan of the red interior. i think if it it done a certain way it can be nice, but the camaro's and Vetts seemed alittle over powering. now if it was red with black accents i think that could look clean, but was never one of my favorite interior options.

goliath88

reds not too bad.. but to each their own. i like my contrast. but i can see where the red can be very overpowering. i got my seats from a red camaro where the only things black were the cluster, and the dash pad.

goliath88

just admiring your whip broski.. its gorgeous.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

This winters series of work seems to be drawing to a close with the nice weather finally showing up. Since I got this thing at Christmas I have fixed the fans without hacking into the harness and hard wiring it on. Changed the VSS, put the correct coolant sensor in, swapped the computer, put in a new AC Delco sending unit and pump and repaired the previous owners access hole to the fuel pump. Here are some pictures of the process throughout. Over the summer I will still do a little bit to her. I need to change the gauge cluster and I am going to refinish the wheels.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

More Pics

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Last Ones

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Made a great Score today! I picked up a complete Red interior from another '91 so its the correct red for FREE, Local!

It is a hard top interior so I still need vert seat belts and rear side panels. Interior is in great shape. No rips. All clips in tact. Very little wear on console shift indicator. Its all relatively clean. Its dirty... but all surface dirt not stains.

As clean as it is its going to get fully restored before being installed. This will be a winter project.

ktthecarguy

wow, free? You can't get better than free. Looks like a good project.

86FyrBrd

iTrader: (1)

Finally getting somewhere with this interior swap/restoration.

I got the carpet in today and a few of the interior pieces I have that don't require more attention. I have had the carpet for over a month but we've barely had 5 days over 25 degrees since then.

For the door panels i want to attempt to straighten the top piece, re-spray the plastic around the switches, andinstall my black armrests

Besides that I need my side panels re-covered and new seat covers made from OEM material for my rear backs and both fronts.

91ragtopTA

Thats a really nice looking car you got there, I love the black interior in mine, but I really like the look of that red, very striking.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

That car looks great, love the 91-92 verts. I voted keep grey/black interior. I went from grey to black myself.

Trap door mod FTW. Single walbro @ 600hp club member on stock lines