If you're buying a Griffin 31x19 radiator for a dual fan car, enter
CoolingDiscuss all of the aspects of cooling that you can think of! Radiators, transmissions, electric fans, etc.
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If you're buying a Griffin 31x19 radiator for a dual fan car, enter
I'm going to be making up a few of my radiator mounts for this radiator. The problem with the stock mount is that it's too shallow on one side for the extra width of the radiator, and the fans are mounted too close to the radiator (they touch.) My mounts are made of aluminum, and bolt to the stock areas of the car. Included are the top and bottom mounts, bolts for the fans, and rubber blocks for the top mount since the stock bottom rubber blocks can still be used. The end mounts on the bottom fans themselves will have to be modified to clear any "wonderbar". Instead of the welded upper mounts shown in the picture, I will be using small bolts to attach them because heavy vibration can rip the welds. I'll be making them in a week or two, and I'm asking $55 a set. If you're interested, PM me.
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Well, the reason I didn't go ahead with making the brackets was because I moved, which took up all my shop rental cash. If I get 5 orders, that should be enough cash to rent the shop, buy the sheet of aluminum, and make a little for myself for the effort. I have 1 confirmed order, and 2 people who are interested. If I get 4 more confirmed orders, I'll reserve the shop time.
Here is a picture of the bottom mount. Notice that if you have a wonderbar, you'll have to shave the outer plastic mounts on the fans a little to clear the bolts on the wonderbar.
Instead of a Griffin or Be-Cool why not get something made for 82-92 f-bodies? Ggo to www.chargedair.com (they only list 4th gen radiators, but they do make 3rd gen). They offer a DROP IN REPLACEMENT aluminum dual 1" row radiator for F-bodies that requires no changes to your fan brackets. They only thing you have to modify is the rubber grommets that go between the radiator and upper support.
__________________ -Justin- out of my mind and I'll never know why '86 Pontiac Firebird 305-4bbl / 700R4 T-Top WS6
'92 Pontiac Firebird 305-TBI / 700R4 T-Top
'76 Chevrolet Silverado C10 350-4bbl / TH350 longbed click for my Homepage at CarDomain to see my mods da computer: AMD A64 3400+ @ 2.6GHz in green Aspire SuperAlien case.click for a pic! Teddy!
I was going to go the Griffin route also, but the $189 radiator is for a manual transmission.... The automatics are more, and then you have to add heater hose fittings which is more. The Be-Cool equivalent is almost $500
Copper/brass 3 core radiator for automatics...that will drop right in to a 305 or 350. $189 for a 'lifetime' warranty or 156 for a one year warranty... call 1-800-radiator (7234286). I did and do not have a cooling issue any more. That price INCLUDES shipping. It IS dependant on your zip code...price MAY vary a little.
I went with aluminum for weight. And I didn't replace it to make my car cooler, the old one was leaking. Doesn't seem to make a huge bit of difference, in 105 degree weather it's going to be hot regardless.
Ok I managed to install that griffin and a B&M transmission cooler 24k one, I had to remove the A/C couse it was to damaged and it would not let any air pass thru the griffin, I have only one fan, and the mount I see on the picture is for one fan.
I managed to mount the trans cooler on the X cross thing before the radiator (as everyone can see I dont know its name) and used the standards bolts and radiator support without any rubber mounts, the fan is now very close to my radiator but dont touch it. I dont know if it will come loose or something as I could not use every bolt the most driver side one did not align.
My car have the temperature displayed in Celsious as it is now it never get above 170 F (the indicator betwen the lower temp and the midle temp) is this good, will I need to change anything? like the chip, the thermosthat or something else?
Originally posted by justadba Copper/brass 3 core radiator for automatics...that will drop right in to a 305 or 350. $189 for a 'lifetime' warranty or 156 for a one year warranty... call 1-800-radiator (7234286). I did and do not have a cooling issue any more. That price INCLUDES shipping. It IS dependant on your zip code...price MAY vary a little.
Copper/brass 3 core radiators do not cut the heat in a high HP engine, especially here in coastal GA summers in stop and go traffic.
Look at my pictures of each the 3 core and the big Griffin (dual 1 1/4" cores) below.
By the way if your stuck on getting the 3 core then autozone has them for $130, no delivery charges.
There was a huge debate about this a while ago on one of these boards (either this one or camaroz28.com), and the final synapsis was that Copper/Brass cooled better than aluminum. Supposedly it has better heat transfer abilities than aluminum and therefore can cool more efficiently. The only problem with them is that there is no weight savings.
If this is so why so many competition and high performance sport cars use aluminium?
From my understanding with computers and its coolers the best would be all cooper (to heavy) or cooper tubes with aluminium brass.
The cooper is better for transfering heat from the water to the fins, and the aluminium is better than cooper dissipating this heat to the air, but is very important and dificult the union between the cooper and the aluminium.
If I would be interested in this aluminium fan support how would I pay for it?
Can someone help me with my temp doubt I write about it on my last reply.
You basically answered you own question. The reason is for the weight savings. Better cooling is also a benefit since the radiator is built much better than a stock one is. Bottom line (well, IMO): Aluminum Radiators are just fine unless weight is not an issue, then you can use a copper brass one. But in our case (performance vehicles), weight IS an issue, so we want to add as litle weight to the front of the car as posible, and mostly always use Aluminum units. Now, if you were building a huge behemoth earth mover that weighed 20 tons, and it needed a water cooled engine, a copper/brass radiator might be a better choice since weight doesnt really matter since the thing already weighs 20 tons
The thermal conductivity of Copper is around 385 W/mK, but it's atomic weight is 63. Aluminum's thermal conductivity is around 205 W/mK, but it's atomic weight is only around 27. So what does this mean? Copper's better at conducting heat away from the water, but it's almost 3 times heavier (assuming common density). Aluminum's thermal conductivity is a little more than half that of copper, but it's only weighs 33% as much. Now the copper radiator also has brass in it, which lowers it's thermal conductivity since the tc of brass is only 105 or so. And brass also has heavier elements in it.
So it's a trade off, weight vs cooling. I think aluminum is a good bargain.
If you want a bracket, you could use paypal or send me a money order. I'll only make them if I get 5 confirmed orders, though.
So some of you think the copper 3 core is going to cool better then the Griffin with either dual 1" or 1 1/4" cores?
I think your nuts. Just look at the pictures, the surface area increase alone is awesome.
Sorry, dual fan setups only. I heard that it was easy to mod a single fan shroud so it'd work. And I have absolutely no idea how much it'd be to send to Venezuela.
55 bucks for both top and bottom.
It's made out of aluminum.
I have no clue how much it weighs, maybe a few ounces more than the stock mounts I would guess.
And 55 is shipped to the contiguous 48 United States, ground freight. If you want insurance, air shipping, etc... it'd be more.
I forgot to ask something about our griffin radiators.
When I was instaling it I notice how easyly It damaged just a little pressure with your fingers and the fins got damaged.
There is anyway to protect it from rad garbage?
I noticed the B&M oil cooler is pretty tought, so buying a big Oil cooler that cover almost all its area would work no?
The other option would be to reinstall a new A/C evaporator but I was deciding on delete it completely.
Also I wish to know if anyone had deleted the heater stuff completely, I wish to conserv the ability to use the AC fan to breath with the windows closed when is raining, is this possible, would the weight removed would be worth?
Well if I buy this base how easyly would be to convert to dual fan setup, what would be needed?
Thanks for your help, if only i could manage to find some aluminium sheets I think I could made it here, we produce a lot of aluminium but apparently is only to export it je je.
I'm interested in your aluminum brackets for the Griffen. I have an 89 1LE IROCZ with a 350 6 speed. It cools fine while on the freeway... but around town and on the track...(road course) it get hot (230 +)! Also... where did you guys get your Griffen for $189... I called Griffen and they quoted me $490.
Looking forward to your reply...
PS: I'm in CA... central valley... where it gets hot!
Welcome to the board 1LE! The quote they gave you may have been for the stock replacement radiator. We are talking about using a generic size radiator that "fits" with a little help The radiator can be purchased at Jegs, and probably Summit.
Bought mine in Summit, if you have an automatic tranmission you will need to buy a transmission cooler, I bought mine also in summit (A B&M 24k), the shipping was criminal (400$ to Venezuela) but was worth as in my country this stuff is much more expensive in stores
Hey Scott; thanks for the info and link on the Griffen.
Question... can you get one of these with a heater connector? I'm not sure I can completely give up my heater... it can get pretty cold around here in the winter and the IROC is still my daily driver.
Thanks for the link... any possibility these come with a heater hose port? The IROC is still my daily driver and it can get pretty cold around here in the winter.
There was another post about these radiators somewhere on this board. Do a search on Griffin and you might find it. I think you'll need to drill and tap a hole to put a fitting in there so you can hook up the heater. If yuo want to get a radiator to come with the hole drilled/tapped/with fitting, you'll probably have to buy the stock replacement, and you know how much that one costs....
I think I read somewhere in this forum that you can order it as an option in the generic radiator cost is a little high somewhere about 40$ (That is what I remember) but you should search the forum for the exact info.
"Griffin radiators are designed for racing applications only."
What does that mean? Whats a race only radiator? Or whats the difference between a regular aftermarket radiator and a race only? I want to buy a new radiator for my new motor and would love to spend $190 instead of $500 for a BeCool, but this car is more a street/strip car, not race only. So can anybody elaborate on that statement? By the way that came from the description on Summits website about this radiator.
Because it doesnt have applications for a tranny cooler or a heater. In our cars, with automatic trannys, the radiator has an integrated tranny cooler. If you buy the $189 unit, you'll also need to buy a B&M Tranny cooler, and get the heater fitting installed somewhere (they may do it for you, but you'll have to pay for it, as mentioned above.)
Well I am using a T-56 so I don't need the tranny cooler, but what is this heater fitting you mention? Are you saying the way it comes I wouldn't have any heat in the car?
Scroll up and look for a post by John Millican that has pics comparing the stock radiator to the one he purchased ($289 Griffin, larger than the $189 one). Look at the fitting that is right below the radiator cap. I'm not 100% what the function of the fitting is, but I know that if you dont have it, you can hook your heater up. Somone please expand on this.....
Yeah I see the fitting. Well if anyone knows how to use this radiator and still be able to keep the heat I would love to hear how to do it.
I was thinking about something, I am using a Stewart Components water pump with the new motor and it has a big hole in the back of it, most people just plug it up since they use the fitting supplied in the stock radiator, but could this be used as an alternative to the radiator fitting when using the Griffin?
ok... my current stock 305 manual radiator is leaking. BAD. I cant keep water in it but when water is in it it stays at 145 degrees. So i need am shopping for a griffin unit and i want more cooling capacity than stock. And i want the instalation to be as simple and strate forwqard as possible. Can u possibly email those specs for the bracket to me and send some kind of instruction if not or even if you can I would like to purchase one from you if you are going to make the brackets. i have the single fan and just replaced the motor for it so i dont wanna have to get a new fan. any help is appreciated. anyone here (i know this is the wqrong forum) know a good higher volume than stock fuel pump for a good price would be for a 305 TBI 1990? thanks
-matt
That fitting right below the radiator cap is for a recovery/overflow tank. As for a heater return......if you happen to have a Stewart stage II aluminum pump, there is a provision for a return fitting on the top of the pump. Other than that, you will need to get some type of "T" fitting to tie into one of the radiator hoses.
I'd like to clarify for people who were interested in the brackets, that I can no longer make them. Not enough people were interested at the time I could, so I didn't make any. I'm going to be moving in two weeks (losing my garage. ) and then starting 11 credits of college, so I don't have time to make them. Sorry for any inconvenience or confusion this may have caused.
Originally posted by Synapsis I'd like to clarify for people who were interested in the brackets, that I can no longer make them. Not enough people were interested at the time I could, so I didn't make any. I'm going to be moving in two weeks (losing my garage. ) and then starting 11 credits of college, so I don't have time to make them. Sorry for any inconvenience or confusion this may have caused.
Well, if you're not going to make them, is there any way you could make a tech article on HOW you made them? The angles and dimensions of meterial used would be very helpful.
Radiators - Aluminum radiators are strongly
recommended. They dissipate heat more
efficiently than traditional copper-brass
radiators for two primary reasons:
1) Copper-brass radiators must be soldered
together. Solder is a very poor thermal
conductor and inhibits the ability of the fins
to pull heat out of the tubes. Although
aluminum does not dissipate heat as well as
copper-brass.
2) Modern radiator designs incorporate wider
tubes with smaller cross sections. This
design allows for more contact area per
cubic inch of coolant, and allows the radiator
to cool substantially better than older de-signs
using narrow tubes with larger cross
sections.
Originally posted by 92BlAcK_RSLO3 The cooper is better for transfering heat from the water to the fins, and the aluminium is better than cooper dissipating this heat to the air, but is very important and dificult the union between the cooper and the aluminium.
Copper/brass does dissipate heat better than aluminum...on paper, in the real world of automotive radiators it can't. To build a radiator from copper/brass requires that the fins and supporting structure be made of thick (compared to aluminum) material due to its structural weakness, and this defeats the superior thermal transfer abilities of copper/brass. Aluminum is actually extremely strong material (pound for pound stronger than steel) and so can be made much thinner and pack more fins into a radiator to dissipate heat faster than the thicker copper/brass.
That is why most car mfg's and race teams have gone with aluminum radiators now.
Copper/brass 3 core radiators do not cut the heat in a high HP engine, especially here in coastal GA summers in stop and go traffic.
Look at my pictures of each the 3 core and the big Griffin (dual 1 1/4" cores) below.
By the way if your stuck on getting the 3 core then autozone has them for $130, no delivery charges.
Can you do us a favor and show them each on a scale (like a bathroom scale)? I'd like to SEE the weight difference.
The reason I ask is that someone mentioned that aluminum weighs 33% of copper's weight. But to me, it looks as though the Griffin radiator is roughly 3 times as thick. Plus, copper/brass radiators still use aluminum fins, as well as steel frames.
So to use a 100% aluminum radiator (that's almost 3 times larger) and compare it to a copper/brass/aluminum/steel radiator, while only calling it a copper radiator, is not a fair comparison. But even so, I doubt if the aluminum radiator is more than 5-10 lbs. lighter, due to it's size.
And as far as Morley saying that aluminum is "pound for pound stronger than steel", well, the comparison is not between aluminum and steel, it's between aluminum and copper. But to use that comparison regardless of what metal you compare aluminum to is WAY too unrealistic. It takes A LOT more mass of aluminum to weigh 1 lb. than it does steel. And that's not even taking into account that there are thousands of different types and densities of steel and aluminum.
So I guess it boils down to (no pun intended ) which RADIATOR is lighter, and by how much? And what is the actual % of how much "more" an aluminum radiator actually cools the engine.
And last, but not least....
Let's not forget that you're comparing an aftermarket product (AKA quality) to a stock part (AKA quantity). I'd like to see the comparison of a high quality aluminum radiator to a high quality copper/brass one.
And as far as Morley saying that aluminum is "pound for pound stronger than steel", well, the comparison is not between aluminum and steel, it's between aluminum and copper. But to use that comparison regardless of what metal you compare aluminum to is WAY too unrealistic. It takes A LOT more mass of aluminum to weigh 1 lb. than it does steel. And that's not even taking into account that there are thousands of different types and densities of steel and aluminum.
AJ
The comparison between metals was to show why aluminum is used over copper/brass. And the mass difference is exactly why aluminum is used instead of the more thermal efficent copper/brass combo, you just can't make the copper/brass radiators thin enough to out perform the aluminum ones, they would fold up under their own weight.
And the statement about aluminum being stronger than steel does take into account the different types of steels and aluminums (but not the exotic metals). A sheet of 7075 T6 .050" aluminum is just a little weaker than the same sheet of 301HH stainless steel, and copper/brass is nowhere near the strength of either
There is only one problem with your wanting to compare a HIGH quality aluminum copper/brass radiator to an aluminum one...they don't make a copper/brass radiator of the same quality as the high dollar aluminum ones because of the weight penalties and decreased thermal efficencies of having to use thicker materials to avoid the copper/brass from crumpling under its own weight.
This picture I posted for a size comparasion isn't really fair. The stock replacement 3 core copper vs. the Griffin is misleading. The Griffin is the dual 1 1/4" version for $289 and is equal to a 6 core copper radiator. Only then can you compare the weights of each.
Originally posted by 92BlAcK_RSLO3 The cooper is better for transfering heat from the water to the fins, and the aluminium is better than cooper dissipating this heat to the air
The problem isn't getting the heat from the water to the tubes, the water is flowing directly through them & they will heat up. Aluminum does a better job shedding heat with airflow.
A one row OEM 87 V8 F-body one row aluminum rad. will outcool an OEM 87 G-body three row copper / brass rad. These radiators are the exact same size. I've owned a few of each.
What model# is that Griffin Radiator? It looks like the
475-155272-X......31'' x 19'' 1.25'' from the Jegs website.
I plan on getting one to help keep my 406 cooled.
Teddy! 
