Has anyone seen, or done it themselves? As in, tilted the radiator forwards (obviously making new mounts, top and bottom)? How far forward? Is it the stock rad? What hoses?
__________________ 91 trans am vertcardomain crap
LSx - T56 - Fun
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17"x9" ROH Snypers (with the correct 3rd gen backspacing, no spacers needed), 275 front/285 rear, no rear seats, 4th gen front seats, OEM 2001 TA rear wing, OEM 1997 TA side mirrors
Every other post I see from you is asking why do this or why do that. Why ask why? hehe.
I'm just trying to brain storm ideas on ways to get better flow through the rad and eventually sealing that flow off from the rest of the engine bay. Right now my car traps TONS of air in the engine bay at speed and consequently ads drag and lift. I'm thinking if you tilt the rad forward and modify the core support you'd gain the room you'd need to baffle it off and duct the air directly out the hood in a prime location, just behind the leading edge of the hood itself. You'd obviously need a style of vented hood (better than the stock TA imitations) and, at least on birds, a pseudo front-breather setup where the air enters front the front instead of down under the car below the rad.
Every other post I see from you is asking why do this or why do that. Why ask why? hehe.
Really? I don't recall asking 'Why?' every other post. Please share your findings...
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Originally Posted by iansane
I'm just trying to brain storm ideas on ways to get better flow through the rad and eventually sealing that flow off from the rest of the engine bay. Right now my car traps TONS of air in the engine bay at speed and consequently ads drag and lift. I'm thinking if you tilt the rad forward and modify the core support you'd gain the room you'd need to baffle it off and duct the air directly out the hood in a prime location, just behind the leading edge of the hood itself. You'd obviously need a style of vented hood (better than the stock TA imitations) and, at least on birds, a pseudo front-breather setup where the air enters front the front instead of down under the car below the rad.
I would think blocking the sides (I've noticed on my GTA, there are some gaps on the sides) venting the hood to let the heat out and increase the air flow through the engine compartment wouldbe of benefit, rather than trapping the heat underneath.
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17"x9" ROH Snypers (with the correct 3rd gen backspacing, no spacers needed), 275 front/285 rear, no rear seats, 4th gen front seats, OEM 2001 TA rear wing, OEM 1997 TA side mirrors
Right. The engine bay acts as a big arse sail. The more open it'd be the more it'll trap air and cause lift/drag. If you force all the air to go through the rad and straight out of the engine bay through proper ductwork you'll maximize the efficiency of the rad (which will negate any increased engine bay temps) and you'll help plant the front end of the car by streamlining the air travel over and through.
I already pulled the seal across the back bottom of my hood, to let SOME heat out instead of sealing the heat in.
Did it help? Dunno, but it can't hurt. Maybe in WET climates there might be a downside to rain getting in there, but other than May, rain isn't a problem here & I've seen no down side, even in May.
Besides, I'm just waiting for my new hood, that will help solve any over heating problems!
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17"x9" ROH Snypers (with the correct 3rd gen backspacing, no spacers needed), 275 front/285 rear, no rear seats, 4th gen front seats, OEM 2001 TA rear wing, OEM 1997 TA side mirrors
And yanking that seal does help. I have some of the bracing cut out from my hood to fit the HSR in there and when I wrecked the front end a year or so ago the body shop put that seal back in (I had it removed) and I immediately noticed the hood bulging up at speed. But you're still trapping air. I'm thinking along the lines or preventing most of the air from entering the engine bay in the first place, instead of the easiest way to evacuate the air already in there.
Butif you increase the air flow through the radiator, you've increased the amount of air under the hood.
I've thought about cutting the bracing under the 2 rear faux vents, to make them true vents and allow the air stream over the hood, to create some suction effect at speed, to help draw the hot underhood air out through them.
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17"x9" ROH Snypers (with the correct 3rd gen backspacing, no spacers needed), 275 front/285 rear, no rear seats, 4th gen front seats, OEM 2001 TA rear wing, OEM 1997 TA side mirrors
Yeah. Which is why I'd like to see if anyone has tilted their rad forward. That would make ducting it easy and venting the air directly out the hood and not into the engine bay. Imagine me putting a box behind the rad and cutting out the side that faces the rad and the top that touches the hood. Almost no air getting forced into the bay. Eh?
I don't claim to know a lot about this but simply cutting the vents open isn't going to do what you think it will. Especially at the rear. You'd really want to cut the front vents out. The leading edge of the hood will have more suction than at the back of the hood where there is a huge low pressure zone. If you cut out the rear ones and made a small 'lip' at the front of the vent that would help suck air out. You could do the same thing all along the back of the hood and that's called a wickerbill if I understand it correctly.
With the way a Firebird hood slopes down at the front, I think opening the front 2 vents would let more cool air in, sice (I think) there would be more of a pressure effect, allowing cool air in.
I knew the rear vents would be minimal for cooling, but a little extra MIGHT help & it's free.
I like your idea of ducting the air from the radiator, out through the top of the hood. Much like the Euro super cars are.
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17"x9" ROH Snypers (with the correct 3rd gen backspacing, no spacers needed), 275 front/285 rear, no rear seats, 4th gen front seats, OEM 2001 TA rear wing, OEM 1997 TA side mirrors
Two comments. I need to do some research to pull up the pix.
1) a member here commented, that contrary to popular belief, of the air dam pushng the air up in front of the rad, and out towards the back of the car, it sucks it under the air dam, and kind goes the other way. I dont remember how he worded it exactly, but he said lowering the car will improve the flow because of this effect.
2) Secondly, i think sealing of the rad will do more harm than good, unless you seal off ALL of it (meaning, you dot cover the rad fins partly, by the seal, and only shroud off a portion). I would start with the hood before the rad. The rad would be simple, and im sure you could just buy some longer hoses (universal) and be done with it. As for the hood, there was a member selling a quad turbo setup on here, because he switched to a single turbo. IT was an orange GTA, and he had modified his hood, to be an "extractor". The easier way to go about it, is get a cowl. If you dont find the links to those two posts, ill search and post them in a bit.
With the way a Firebird hood slopes down at the front, I think opening the front 2 vents would let more cool air in, sice (I think) there would be more of a pressure effect, allowing cool air in.
There's a huge pressure area right there and it's actually going to suck air out, more than it's going to let air in unless you make some large scoop or something.
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Originally Posted by online170
1) a member here commented, that contrary to popular belief, of the air dam pushng the air up in front of the rad, and out towards the back of the car, it sucks it under the air dam, and kind goes the other way. I dont remember how he worded it exactly, but he said lowering the car will improve the flow because of this effect.
That's an interesting idea. So you're saying it actually functions in reverse? Air flows forward over the rad because of the airdam? Weird. It'd be a moot point anyway with a front breather setup though.
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Originally Posted by online170
2) Secondly, i think sealing of the rad will do more harm than good, unless you seal off ALL of it (meaning, you dot cover the rad fins partly, by the seal, and only shroud off a portion). I would start with the hood before the rad. The rad would be simple, and im sure you could just buy some longer hoses (universal) and be done with it. As for the hood, there was a member selling a quad turbo setup on here, because he switched to a single turbo. IT was an orange GTA, and he had modified his hood, to be an "extractor". The easier way to go about it, is get a cowl. If you dont find the links to those two posts, ill search and post them in a bit.
That'd what I'm talking about. Sealing the rad off completely from the rest of the enginebay airflow. The problem I see with the extractor thing is there area where I'd want to dip down is blocked by the core support. It'd only go down an inch or so. That's why I'm thinking tilt the rad forward and have the hood come down a lot farther.
You're talking about edgardo, right? The guy who runs BBS Designs and does the turbo headers and stuff? Nice guy.
Get a REAL good look at a C5 corvette! The angled Rad and sealed shroud. Sealed to the front of the radiator, then look at several of the after market hoods available for the C5 Vette, some are ram air style and others are heat extractor style. Notice on the ones built for extracting heat that they have a small box that opens up facing the windsheild but from the front of the hood, that's not for looks. But the entire setup is very specific. Now go look at a 4th gen Camaro and notice it too has the rad angled forward, then look under the car and notice how the bumper cover forms a box on the bottom of the car that is like a big vent into the rad. The front air dam helps draw air thru the rad by creating negative pressure behind the rad and that negative pressure helps draw air thru the rad at high speed. If you want to reduce under hood pressures in the hopes of relieving front end lift, the most effective way is to reduce the amount of air that's able to travel under the bottom of the car in the front , ei. larger front air dam that extends as close to the ground as you can live with and then extend this dam all the way across the front of the car. If you really want to get trick add plastic side skirts to the pinch weld, front to rear, then a diffuser wing under the rear bumper. There is plenty of room to tilt the rad forward from the bottom, but the trick will be forming an appropriate inlet box in front of it at the bottom of the car, aluminum sheet would work well but isn't the easiest to work with, doesn't handle parking lot fender benders well and is a bit expensive. I would sugg. using a 4th gen rad and as much of the plastic as you can get your hands on as possible. Some strip steel and rivets would work well to attach it. A C5 uses a rad chassis that unbolts from the bottom of the cars frame with 4 Nut Serts but its kinda bulky to try and fit under the nose of the 3rd gen F-bodies.A problem with running a sealed cooling system this way and then adding a cowl induction hood is that a cowl induction hood will actually allow a much greater volume of air to enter the engine compartment due to the postive pressure at the windshield. That's why its a great way to force air down the throat of a carb. Think of the Nascar style airbox, same theory, and reducing the underhood lift was your original goal. Vents in the fenders with a baffle on the inside forcing the air to U-turn around before exiting could help create negative pressure that might draw out additional heat but would also require inner fender mods you don't even want to get into before getting anywhere near effective. Besides every time you cut another hole into the exterior of the vehicle, you create more drag. An under hood heat shield such as the one made by Dynomat or a similar product would be much more efficient and effective, especially if you ceramic coated your headers and Y- pipe. Another way to reduce a small amount of hood lift if you own a Camaro is to get the GT Styling headlight covers to help deflect some of the air that the headlight assembly would have passed thru.
Heck if you went thru all the trouble of building a 4th gen rad air box or something that resembled the C5, you could actually consider building a true ram air utilizing the factory air inlets on the front of the car that used to supply air to the radiator from around the licence plate.
There's a c6 in the garage that I'm fairly familar with. Their tilt is noticeable but I'm talking a little more extreme of an angle to keep the same or similar height of rad in the car. And yes, a functional front airdam, splitter and pan would be most effective at keeping air out of the engine bay but I'd like work on getting airflow over the rad first to make sure I don't kill the car. This is my daily driver.
The take a close look at that cooling system and you will see that 100% of the air that moves thru the radiator comes from beneath the car, the grill opening in the front of a vette only supplies air to the air cleaner. Also look around the edges of the engine compartment and you will see gaskets all the way around the sides and rear of the hood, Ecklers and such sell the gaskets to the front of the hood as a "performance upgrade". Or at least thats the way it was when I owned my 98 C5, I sold it in 2005 and haven't really gotten the chance to tear apart a C6 like I did my C5.
