Auto Tuner for Commander 950 - DFI and ECM - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Kingtal0n · 10-09-2003, 11:30 PM

I was speaking with doug flynn @ holley and mentioned I was designing a program that will work with the commander 950 to auto tune itself, so you dont even need somone to drive while you tune, you just drive and it tunes itself.

im going to add all sorts of data logs that the commander is missing like O2 voltage VS rate of tps and a log of the commander's built in Dtps which moves so fast you cant tell what cell it was using the AE enrichment from..

But the main thing is the auto tuner, I will be testing it when i put my motor back together, but to complete it I will need my car running and the O2 mod moving since this is what we are tuning with, moving the O2 mod to a desired place...

from there Ill make it so you can switch to open loop and run by A/F ratio, instead of having the commander do fuel adjustments my program will make them directly to the fuel map, and according to your desired A/F, so if you want a little lean on the highway or a little richer during idle you can do so completelly in open loop, with my program watching the O2 sensor voltage and making adjustments to the fuel map based on what you set it for.

BUT i have no running motor so i dont even know what Wm_msg hits the fuel map text boxs when the pink box moves over it, if somone with the commander 950 would take a screen shot of it while using SPy++ that would be great i could have the program done the same day.

I will be ready to release a beta in a little bit for people to test on their setups, if interested. It is written in VB6, which windows 95 would probably have a problem with some of the API calls and subclassing dll's, i need to test it out on win95-98 however. Right now im going to set the system requirments at windowsXP...

Kingtal0n · 10-09-2003, 11:32 PM

also im willing to give out the source code to anyone who thinks they can help or add features or whatever. you would need to understand VB6 and API quite well though, and understand how subclassing works.

IROCNParts · 10-11-2003, 10:53 AM

hey id love to try this out! I just got mine dyno tuned, but lets see how your program varys to mine!
get back to me! thanks

92 zzz28 · 10-12-2003, 04:45 PM

Hey King,

If you wanna come up to Boca and plug your 950 into my car and use it as test car, I don't think I would mind!!! That would speed up my tuning EPROM process a bit...

Kingtal0n · 10-12-2003, 08:35 PM

Well i would except i cant see how thats would help you one bit

the commander is a standalone ecu, if i tuned your car with it, the program would only work on your car while the commander was hooked to it...

once i removed it you would no longer be in tune, but back to your previous Eprom tune. there is no way to transfer that over...

yet.

now you just gave me an idea.

And just in case you were joking about it thinking that your "eprom" tune would be great suddenly because there wereny any more eproms, i would also love to do that except you would have to pin-out and repin the entire harness twice to do such a thing. but it would work...

I would love to see your car anyways, i live close to boca, or did.

NOw i live in miami, near homestead, but i make trips to coral springs like 2 or 3 times a week (When i have an engine in the car) so boca is only a few miles away from there. why dont you PM me or email me, maybe we can work somthing out.

92 zzz28 · 10-12-2003, 09:07 PM

Yeah, I was kidding. But I have thought about going with an aftermarket ecm for a long time. The only thing that holds me back is price. Since my car needs so much other work, rearend, body, paint, I just can't spend the money on the aftermarket ECM. So tuning PROMs will have to do for now.

I actually thought there were adaptors to allow a quick and simple hook up for the aftermarket computers...

IROCNParts · 10-12-2003, 09:11 PM

I have a 950 in mine!

Kingtal0n · 10-12-2003, 09:18 PM

now that you mention it i could probably make a simple adaptor that auto changes the pinouts for the factory wiring.. that wouldnt be hard at all in fact. i would just need more of those plug ins that work with the commander 950, and i would need to pull out the plugs inside the GM ecm as well. hrm. who wants to donate a GM ECM, say, a 730 isnt that a MAP ECM?

and what do you mean price? you can pick up the ECU $538.99 now and just re-pin the factory harness (like above) to work with it. very simple...

how much $ did you spend / are you spending on tuning your own chips? didnt you need software / memcal / cable etc... to get started? how much less than $550 was it?

92 zzz28 · 10-13-2003, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kingtal0n

and what do you mean price? you can pick up the ECU $538.99 now and just re-pin the factory harness (like above) to work with it. very simple...

how much $ did you spend / are you spending on tuning your own chips? didnt you need software / memcal / cable etc... to get started? how much less than $550 was it?

What, where are they so inexpensive? I was under the impression that aftermarket computers were in the neighborhood of $1500+. I have looked at Accell and FAST and they were all very expensive and the people at the companies also told me I would have to modify the wiring harness to make it work. I don't want to do that. If all they ment was to repin the connector, which I don't know how to do, I think I could swing that. Tell me where to look or which companies to contact for that price. I have a few other questions about the 950 but I will bother you in the PM about that if you don't mind...

Lets see, I use tunercat $60-80 IIRC, PP2 which was $150, I bought a Memcal adaptor from TTS, $80, and some EEPROMs, 3@$5 /each. Little over $300. I also have Datamaster, but that is not necessary for tuning, but I wanted it. I have been burning PROMs for over a year. Its kinda fun and very simple. I also burn some for my boss's friend who has a 68 Chevy P/U we put a 350 TPI in a few years ago.

Kingtal0n · 10-13-2003, 08:21 PM

HLY-534-120 ECU for Commander 950 $538.99

Summitracing.com

you get that, repin your harness (first time for me, took 5 minutes to learn, 30 minutes total to complete and re-tape what i screwed up.)

and you get the software, which even if you cant get holley's mine will be freeware so you can use it...

and your done! your setup is converted to S/D realtime tuning. that should be a freaking sticky.

92 zzz28 · 10-13-2003, 09:35 PM

Thanks for the info.

I am curious if you know what the Holley PN 950-101 kit is. From Summit is sells for about $830. The holley website just shows it as a kit for TPI cars. Let me know...

Kingtal0n · 10-13-2003, 10:05 PM

thats what i wound up buying for mine. its the ECU, the Software, and a complete new wiring harness for the TPI with some sensors.

if you feel like removing your entire harness, and installing this new one (which BTW if run like the old one will need about 1 foot of length added and your fan switch and crap will have to be re-wired too) then thats a perfectly good kit....

but if you already have a perfectly good working harness, with all your sensors working, and everything is fine and dandy you just want to change computers...

all you need is the ECU.

92 zzz28 · 10-13-2003, 10:47 PM

All right good call.

Just the computer and repin the connector.

Thanks

IROCZZ3 · 10-13-2003, 11:32 PM

Kingtalon-
I'm very intersted to see how your idea works out. I just recently installed a C950 and while it's easy to tune, your idea would make it even easier. So if I'm reading you right, you just input a target O2 mod, and the C950 will automatically adjust to it?

I don't really know jack about computers otherwise I'd gladly help take screenshots of whatever you said you needed earlier.

BTW, I wish I knew about repinning the harness or else I wouldn't have bought the whole kit. But I got mine at Scoggin-Dickey for $826 shipped (950 ecu AND tpi harness!) That's the cheapest place I've seen it.

Kingtal0n · 10-14-2003, 01:51 AM

yes here is a screen shot... all the red text is editable. you enter the setting you want, save them, and run the commander 950. using the setting you enter, it alters the fuel map.

Kingtal0n · 10-14-2003, 02:04 AM

and IROCZZ3 if you are interested in helping me out i could walk you through how to use SPY++ to give me the info i need to finish my program.

i would have to upload you spy++ though, its about 200K i think.
let me know if you can help.

614Streets · 10-14-2003, 10:01 AM

Wow. Hey Im about a week from startup . I have a 950, and even have another in the house. I got the full 670 tbi kit off ebay for $350 with power snipe, brand new it costs $1299 from jegs, I got a back up 950 off ebay as well for $250! Look on ebay they come up, doesnt hurt to ask seller what he wants to sell now.

Anyways thsat program looks interesting. Im gonna let some folks I know who run it know about it , maybe we can help you finish it.

Zac's92 · 10-15-2003, 04:36 PM

Kingtalon,

Could you elaborate on re-pinning the harness? What specific terminals need to be changed? some instructions on this would be great or maybe a tech article?

Thanks
Zac

Kingtal0n · 10-16-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zac's92
Kingtalon,

Could you elaborate on re-pinning the harness? What specific terminals need to be changed? some instructions on this would be great or maybe a tech article?

Thanks
Zac

ack. all of them need to be changed... you basically need to find a wiring diagram of your car's harness, then using the diagram the Commander 950 comes with, simply pull out the pins 1 at a time from the factory harness, and using the factory diagram, insert them into the commander 950's harness. its not HARD it just gets time consuming... especially when half way through you realize that your wiring diagram isnt completelly accurate.

grobb284 · 10-21-2003, 07:46 AM

You are correct in suggesting repinning an existing harness. I purchased the 950-101, and it was short in several ways on length. To Holley's credit, they have supplied extra terminals and such to help with the installation. However, that being said, for the time to work on making the harness right, it would have been a similar or less amount of time to repin, and had all the lengths right for sensor hookup.

If you are competent with electrical items, the repin is probably the way to go.

I'm interested in your self-tune program, let me know how it progresses.

CrazyHawaiian · 10-21-2003, 10:52 AM

Best bang for the buck aftermarket solution I've seen. Good job Kingtal0n! And good job letting everyone know they can save $$ by re-using the existing harness. Definately a plus. I posted so I could answer your question about DIY costs. A setup can be had for around $320 not including the price of a PC (laptop or desktop). The $320 price would include the PROMinator, Tunercat R_T, the definition file, the ALDL cable (can save $ by making it yourself, but I didnt include that), and a USB adapter. This would give you the capability of real time tuning (while someone else drives) and diagnostics, as well as the ability to flash the PROMinator in the ECM (no more chips). Add the cost of a 749 ECM for around $100 (or convert your 730 for even cheaper), and the cheapest wideband tuning unit out there (Innovative motorsports) at $350, and total cost of 2 bar map and WB02 tuning capabilities with the DIY setup runs you between $700 - $770. I just wanted to let you know how much it would be so you could compare that to the total cost of your Commander 950 w/ WB02 tuning setup. I've always thought DIY was the cheapest route, but with what you've said you might have found a cheaper solution.

:yourock:

Side note: grobb284, looks like a sweet build you've got going there. Wish my chassis looked that nice.

Kingtal0n · 10-22-2003, 12:00 AM

And I will be getting my new laptop this weekend.. with a serial port so i can put this all into action and finnaly get the ball rolling.

in case anyones wondering.. my crank is still at the machine shop they still need to turn it .020/.020 before i can reassemle the motor and get IT running...

So hopefully in a week i will be up and running, and ready to do some testing.

the race upgrade to the commander (950-125) which allows Closed Loop during WOT and Wide Band O2 operation is about $300~ if i remember somone mentioning it. not sure exactly how much though...

But you also need an "amplifier" for the sensor, and the sensor itself. So it can get pricey when you move to the WBo2 portion of aftermarket EFI. But can you imagine being able to tell the computer "ok on this portion of the fuel map i want 12:1 and on this portion i want 15:1 and over here 13.5:1 and here 11.7:1.."

and then having the computer actually, realistically, functionally controlling and holding those A/F ratios to +/- .5% accuracy?

Well personally i think its just nuts. sign me up!

Badas.sbird · 10-23-2003, 10:12 AM

Please let me know what you come up with. I have a customer that is going with a 950.

Kingtal0n · 10-23-2003, 11:16 PM

Just dropped the $1400 on a new laptop with a serial port.

now all i need is my engine up and running.. i will probably get the block and heads and crank back tuesday and when i have a chance in between work ill assemble it and go from there...

until then there isnt much else to do...

Skip Fix · 10-26-2003, 04:58 PM

Please keep us posted. I'm retrofitting a second Gen Trans Am with a TBI and the Commander 950.I'd be interested in the computer program.

SMasterson · 10-29-2003, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kingtal0n
but if you already have a perfectly good working harness, with all your sensors working, and everything is fine and dandy you just want to change computers...

all you need is the ECU.

Are you saying that the 165 or the 730 GM connectors will plug into the Holley 950? Just move the pins around to the correct 950 locations?

If so, I'll remove my 165/730 adapter and have my 950 running this afternoon! Also, probably will check into making an adapter from 165 to the 950. (Acutally, my 950 is for my Malibu project which isn't even close to ready, but I've been tuning my MAF/SD setup for two years and this would give me chance to play with the 950 without installing the whole harness.

Waiting to hear... or maybe I'll go unplug it and check myself...

Anyway, I'm interested in your tuner program too!

Thanks

Kingtal0n · 10-29-2003, 10:54 PM

<b>Are you saying that the 165 or the 730 GM connectors will plug into the Holley 950? Just move the pins around to the correct 950 locations? </b>

well if you think about it all the sensors are the same, so you just re-line them up for use with the commander 950 and bing. just remember there are some things the commander doesnt have a use for, so there will be some pins left which you need to mark...

Verviticas · 11-05-2003, 01:50 AM

Hey Kingtal0ni think its really great that your doing this. I was looking into the commander 950 but had doubts about my limited abilities in tuning car engines (ive never done it, altho im quite adept with computers). Just one question, when do you think you'll be ready to test it?