DFI and ECMDiscuss all aspects of DFI (Digital Fuel Injection), ECMs (Electronic Control Module), scanners, and diagnostic equipment. Fine tune your Third Gen computer system for top performance.
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Hi guys, I just finished installing megasquirt on my 97 mustang.
I also have a fastburn 350 that is in the process of a megasquirt conversion, it is a very impressive and inexpensive engine managment that can do wideband realtime tuning. Just thought I'd share this with the thirdgen community. Any questions let me know.
First what is megasquirt? MS is basically a standalone fuel and timing management computer. Think of it as a version of your stock ford ECU without a couple of extra functions (emissions control for example) and completely 100% user adjustable.
I have installed MS as fuel control only, although it will work with timing control also. The stock ford ECU REMAINS IN PLACE AND WORKING. The only thing the ECU does not now control is injector pulsewidth. Every other function (emissions, tranny control, idle air, EGR, AC etc) works exactly as stock. I have been driving around today for approx 40 miles today without the check engine light coming on.
You can control timing also, you set up a 12x12 timing table based on map values and RPM, and you can also vary it on temp.
Advantages of megasquirt.
1. Completely user adjustable, in real time as you drive. Any mod you make can be tuned without a trip to a tuner or mail-order tune. You can tune for your exact engine on the dyno, road, or track, much more accurate than a non-custom mail order tune. Think of it as unlimited, instant chips.
2. No more MAF worries. Megasquirt used a MAP sensor; the maf can be removed or just left in place. You do not have to buy an expensive aftermarket maf once you start making big power.
3. You can easily go back to stock without touching the ECU internals, my setup can be returned to 100% stock in about 30 seconds.
4. Logging: All variables can be logged on a normal laptop for later review or online discussion.
5. Free software: All megasquirt software is free, tuning, logging, graphing, etc
6. Wideband AFR auto tuning. If you run megasquirt 2, or megasquirt I extra, you can feed real-time wideband info into the computer and it will tune the injector PW's to hit the exact AFR you specify.
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Last edited by mhaskell; 12-29-2005 at 04:20 PM.
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Step TWO: Connect the wire harness to the main wiring harness.
The great part of this install is that not a single under hood wire has to be touched! It is helpful if you remove the pass seat!! Remove the kick panel on the pass side of the car and pullback the rug. You should see the factory ECU and several connectors. unplug the connectors and unscrew the factory ECU connector.
I found the factory wiring layout online and took the megasquirt layout to produce a single conversion schematic. Simply slice the wires from the megasquirt to the factory pin's except for the injector wires.
What I did was take the injector wires from the engine and make a 6 PIN MALE connector with them. I then made a 6 PIN FEMALE connector on the stock ECU. I then made a separate 6 PIN FEMALE connector on the megasquirt inject. wires.
This way the engine harness can go to either the stock ECU (for 100% stock operation) or to the megasquirt ( for custom tuning). This way you can switch very quickly between tuned and stock for emissions tests, warranty work, or if you have problems with the megasquirt.
After making all these connections ( I strongly recommend soldering all wires with heat shrink) you can connector all the factory wires and bolt the ECU connector back in place.
Here is my harness ready to be tucked away…
After you finish the wiring it is time to check all the sensor values in megasquirt. One modification needs to be done to the megasquirt however. In order to share the stock CLT and IAT sensors you need to remove the bias resistors on the MS board, they are the two blue resistors shown below.
That’s it, you can now check the sensor values with the engine running with the stock ECU controlling the injectors.
Here is my first data log graph; you can see all the sensor values are correct, except the tach which was wired incorrectly at the time.
You are now ready to tune the megasquirt... I’m not going to restate the entire process,it has been documented fully in the megasquirt manual.
Wanted to add that a vacumn line needs to be run to the megasquirt controller also. I spliced into the line next to the brake booster. I then ran the line through the factory rubber grommet and over to the pass side of the car.
Total project cost was $130 for the megasquirt, $10 or $15 for the DB37 connector, and another 10-15 for the wiring, solder, tape, and wireloom.
cost on the mega squirt system varies depending on what model/options you get. - I've researched and researched on it. I'm going to be buying my 1st one within the next month. Everyone i've talked to, who actually has one, loves it. ESPECIALLY for the price.
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
Originally posted by Shagwell cost on the mega squirt system varies depending on what model/options you get. - I've researched and researched on it. I'm going to be buying my 1st one within the next month. Everyone i've talked to, who actually has one, loves it. ESPECIALLY for the price.
I am in the final steps of assembling my Megasquirt II V3.0. I have never taken on a project like this, but it is going very well. Just like it states in the directions, if you take the time to read and learn this is a great project.
So far I probably have 10 hours in actual build time and 50 hours of reading and research.
I sprung for the wiring harness for $60 from diyautotune.com. It is very nice and worth every penny. I have the V3.0 board full kit (including case), stimulator, wiring harness, lead bender, and serial port cable. All in all I have about $360 into it so far.
I look forward to posting once I get it installed on the car and tuned.
my 1st one will be going in my burban 4x4 daily driver. 335TPI - also going to be dropping a little screw-type blower on once I learn a little about the tuning. - I'm looking at the 3.0 II. That way I have the spark control and all, plus it looks to be the best way to go w/ the boost. - If all goes well, I'm gonna put the old 'bird back on efi w/ it.
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
shagwell dont forget about the 3rd one you have to help install it into the red dragon by the way car is running good let me know when you get it. caus eif your happy with it so will i
It should also be mentioned that the processor speed for megasquirt is extremly fast. I could be driving and make a change to it. When I play with the 730 ecms with an Auto Prom I have to pull over and do it. I have never had a hickup with MS in my three years experience with any version.
Mega Squirt is also great because it can make up your VE table for you. You just have to make a log of your driving, then it feed it to one of it's free programs and it will create it's own VE table(Much better than VE master). Last I heard, Accel was just now coming out with that for about $800.
$800 or free.....plus the cost of the ecu in the first place -this rates pretty high on the all-time list of no-brainers...
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
"6. Wideband AFR auto tuning. If you run megasquirt 2, or megasquirt I extra, you can feed real-time wideband info into the computer and it will tune the injector PW's to hit the exact AFR you specify."
will the mega squirt kit (the one that cost 130) do this or is there somthing ells i need to get also
Originally posted by Shagwell my 1st one will be going in my burban 4x4 daily driver. 335TPI - also going to be dropping a little screw-type blower on once I learn a little about the tuning. - I'm looking at the 3.0 II. That way I have the spark control and all, plus it looks to be the best way to go w/ the boost. - If all goes well, I'm gonna put the old 'bird back on efi w/ it.
Not to get off topic, but as in 335 chevy, a 305 bored .030" over with a 400 crank?
Originally posted by high c "6. Wideband AFR auto tuning. If you run megasquirt 2, or megasquirt I extra, you can feed real-time wideband info into the computer and it will tune the injector PW's to hit the exact AFR you specify."
will the mega squirt kit (the one that cost 130) do this or is there somthing ells i need to get also
Not to get off topic, but as in 335 chevy, a 305 bored .030" over with a 400 crank?
yep - MSII 3.0 ecu/Eaton M90 blower
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
If no one here can tell me not to buy it I will order next week. MSII V3. I just hope the old 305 with 145,000 miles on it will last a few months so I can build a new short block(383) and custom exaust and not to mention modifying the LT1 intake to fit. Oh yes I knew I had a question here. Will the stock LT1 map sensor work here? Also When I upgrade the throttle body to a 58mm do I order one for the TPI or the LT1. And as far as the wideband goes do I just need the sensor or the analyser as well like the Innovative LM-1? Hell that thing cost like $500 for the LM-1 and LM-3. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am a dumbass.
Originally posted by 87z28fromhell If no one here can tell me not to buy it I will order next week. MSII V3. I just hope the old 305 with 145,000 miles on it will last a few months so I can build a new short block(383) and custom exaust and not to mention modifying the LT1 intake to fit. Oh yes I knew I had a question here. Will the stock LT1 map sensor work here? Also When I upgrade the throttle body to a 58mm do I order one for the TPI or the LT1. And as far as the wideband goes do I just need the sensor or the analyser as well like the Innovative LM-1? Hell that thing cost like $500 for the LM-1 and LM-3. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am a dumbass.
Het an LT1 throttle body.
The MAP sensor will not be needed. MS comes with it's own on board MAP sensor.
Originally posted by 87z28fromhell If no one here can tell me not to buy it I will order next week. MSII V3. I just hope the old 305 with 145,000 miles on it will last a few months so I can build a new short block(383) and custom exaust and not to mention modifying the LT1 intake to fit. Oh yes I knew I had a question here. Will the stock LT1 map sensor work here? Also When I upgrade the throttle body to a 58mm do I order one for the TPI or the LT1. And as far as the wideband goes do I just need the sensor or the analyser as well like the Innovative LM-1? Hell that thing cost like $500 for the LM-1 and LM-3. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am a dumbass.
You can also run a EDIS ignition with megasquirt and not need a distributor, so you wouldn't have to modify the LT1 intake so much.
Originally posted by 87z28fromhell If no one here can tell me not to buy it I will order next week. MSII V3. I just hope the old 305 with 145,000 miles on it will last a few months so I can build a new short block(383) and custom exaust and not to mention modifying the LT1 intake to fit. Oh yes I knew I had a question here. Will the stock LT1 map sensor work here? Also When I upgrade the throttle body to a 58mm do I order one for the TPI or the LT1. And as far as the wideband goes do I just need the sensor or the analyser as well like the Innovative LM-1? Hell that thing cost like $500 for the LM-1 and LM-3. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am a dumbass.
Originally posted by mhaskell You can also run a EDIS ignition with megasquirt and not need a distributor, so you wouldn't have to modify the LT1 intake so much.
I think that would cost more money time and trouble then it is worth.
I am now in the proccess of tuning my car with the Megasquirt II V3.0 and Innovate LC-1 wide band and controller. I am extremely happy that I decided to do this. The tuning capabilities are awesome and the support makes it easy to work through any questions. For anyone considering this, do it, you will be very pleased with the results. My total cost had been about $560- that is a steal.
Just started my 84 vette, I converted from the crappy crossfire inejction and smog heads to DFI port injection and aluminum fastburns. I'm post the cliffnotes, any questions just ask away.
350 with fastburn heads (aluminum, sodium filled valves)
mercrusier intake (machined to fit extensively)
BBK 1000CFM throttle body
Machined fuel rails
48lb/hr injectors
walbro 255 pump, all AN fittings and aeromotive regulator
small 214/244 cam (similiar to GM HOT cam)
Megasquirt DFI w/zeitronix wideband
long tube headers, dual 3" exhaust, X pipe, GM LT4 mufflers (quiet)
Even with the huge injectors the engine idles well, and revs nicely. The cool thing about megasquirt is that it can tune itself to a lookup AFR table with the wideband directly. Once I get the car on the road I'll finish the high rpm/high MAP values.
What kind of fuel method did you chose? Alternate bank fire or Straight bank fire (2 squirts per 720* engine cycle)?
What is the idle fuel pressure and what are the injector PWs at idle? I am curious what the single fire (not batch, I can do the math) injector PWs are.
Is that cam duration a typo? Seems rather strange for fastburn heads & intake.
How high do you rev it while allowing the ECM to tune using the WBO2. What happens if the O2 goes bad. Did you add check engine light code and bound the range the WBO2 can swing the fuel trim?
Originally posted by junkcltr What kind of fuel method did you chose? Alternate bank fire or Straight bank fire (2 squirts per 720* engine cycle)?
What is the idle fuel pressure and what are the injector PWs at idle? I am curious what the single fire (not batch, I can do the math) injector PWs are.
Is that cam duration a typo? Seems rather strange for fastburn heads & intake.
How high do you rev it while allowing the ECM to tune using the WBO2. What happens if the O2 goes bad. Did you add check engine light code and bound the range the WBO2 can swing the fuel trim?
4 squirts per cycle, alternating. The idle PW is around 2.1ms. Fuel pressure is set at 40psi baseline.
cam duration is at 0.050", it is pretty similiar to a HOT cam, and a very smooth and streetable cam.
You can set the range of exhaust correction. High and low RPM, map values, percent of each step, time between steps, and overall change.
You can also change the duration and amount of the autotune parameters, as well as "lumpiness" from cell to cell. There is a TON of variables and info on megasquirt. I would suggest reading the manuals online.
If the O2 sensor goes bad, all of a sudden, the fuel would not change more than the total EGO correction percentage, that is user set (typically 5% or so).
I was wondering what you guys are doing for gauges are you running factory stuff or aftermarket and also what are you guys doing as far as fan control that was controlled by the factory ecm. And last but not least has anyone retained the knock sensor?
I'm looking into converting to MS in the next few months, and just trying to go over everything
__________________ Old BEST
13.081@107 5800' elevation stock shortblock 100shot
new best
12.71@107.52 1.82 60' 4300'DA
ASCD RA hood, 1.6rr's, aluminum driveshaft, 383, AFR 195's, CC306 cam, Hooker long tube headers dual 3" to Mufflex3.5", Holley Stealth Ram portmatched to 1205 gasket, AFPR, Megasquirt, plus a 3000 stall and shift kit.ET street radials on formula wheels and billet specialties street lite fronts.
Originally posted by 91RamAir Formula I was wondering what you guys are doing for gauges are you running factory stuff or aftermarket and also what are you guys doing as far as fan control that was controlled by the factory ecm. And last but not least has anyone retained the knock sensor?
I'm looking into converting to MS in the next few months, and just trying to go over everything
I am running stock gauges, MS can share sensors with the stock ECU no problem.
MS can also control the fan, fuel pump, and knock sensors, among many many other things.
After reading this, I am really interested in mega squirt.
I would like to add it to my 305 (which is really waiting for 350). See how it works, and tunning on the spot is just great. Also, if it does adjust to the AFR's than you can almost have a perfectly running engine right?? Also, I am not much of a tuner, but I do know a lot about computers... How hard is it to tune with MS???
I am really interested in buying this!
I was thinking about getting the whole kit, would that be better??? Or which components should I get?
Mega squirt is very easy to tune. IF you read and follow the megamanual to set up the megasquirt parameters, tuning it is a breeze. Mega Squirt has a program called mega tune that can write the VE tables for you. If this is your first experience with soldering, I would say to buy an assembled one.
__________________ 4-bolt 355. Ported Trick Flows. LT4 Hot cam. Ported and Siamesed TPI setup. 10 bolt with 3.42's. 730 ecm that I tune. LS1 brakes.
So I can use any camshaft for my car and any heads I want, use megasquirt to tune the car and be very proud of my acomplishments??
I am no newbie to soldering, but I dont feel comfortable soldering the motherboard. So I think I'll stick to the preassembled one.
If I were to change the cam, how can megasquirt set up the VE tables??? Do I need to input the VE values, or does it do it itself???
Also, how can I know the VE values for a certain cam???
It just sounds like a stab in the dark for getting the right tune???
Yep, any heads, any cam. Add boost (up to 250 kpa, ~ 21psi)
I was a newbie to soldering, and I was able to solder mine. It's not hard, just slow and tedious. And very rewarding when it works.. :-) I never really soldered anything before I did mine. They say the V3 board is harder -- I did a 2.2 board. But if you're patient, you can do it.
MegaTune can generate an approximate VE table for your engine. It will be enough to help get the car running (assuming you've correctly set other things, like REQ_FUEL) Once you get it running, you'll drive around taking datalogs with a laptop, and then you open one of the programs, feed it the logs, and it spits out an updated VE table. Once the car is running, you can get it fairly well roughed in with about 10-20 minutes of driving.
If you take advantage of the AFR target tables, some of this happens automagically. My car didn't respond well using this, but my wideband wiring may have been less than good at the time. I'll try again this spring.
It's a stab in the dark if you don't read the instructions. Fortunately, the instructions (aka-- the MegaManual) are very good. But you need to read it before you do anything. Really.
Would fuel management only be fine since I have Crane Hi-6s ignition??
I have a TBI! Is there anything in megasquirt that would work good with the TBI.
Like have the basic parameters set up for a TBI engine, or will I have to do this??
I never did anything like this.. but it sounds mega cool!
Thanks for help, and sorry for jacking the thread
Would fuel management only be fine since I have Crane Hi-6s ignition??
I have a TBI! Is there anything in megasquirt that would work good with the TBI.
Like have the basic parameters set up for a TBI engine, or will I have to do this??
I never did anything like this.. but it sounds mega cool!
Thanks for help, and sorry for jacking the thread
Go to the success stories and see if any one would lend you their VE table from a TBI engine. Most people are willing to share their tables (unlike here).
Ok I've got my megasquirt assembled and ready to install I'm working on the wiring right now. I'm guessing you guys are still running stock computers along with the MS system. I'm usning MS V3.0 MSnS Extra with a innovate wideband. Anyone running a 383 so I can maybe borrow some info?
__________________ Old BEST
13.081@107 5800' elevation stock shortblock 100shot
new best
12.71@107.52 1.82 60' 4300'DA
ASCD RA hood, 1.6rr's, aluminum driveshaft, 383, AFR 195's, CC306 cam, Hooker long tube headers dual 3" to Mufflex3.5", Holley Stealth Ram portmatched to 1205 gasket, AFPR, Megasquirt, plus a 3000 stall and shift kit.ET street radials on formula wheels and billet specialties street lite fronts.
What's the reason for keeping the stock computer going? The v3.0 board will run the radiator fan and the TPS. A cheap autometer speedometer gauge will run off the stock speed sensor bypassing the computer completely. And the AIR and EGR systems are apparently worthless as far as emissions goes.
I just need to figure out a way to make the check engine light flash on for a sec when I start up the car. Then the smog man would never have a clue...
I would like to keep my stock gauges for now and my cruise control. and both run through the stock ecm.
__________________ Old BEST
13.081@107 5800' elevation stock shortblock 100shot
new best
12.71@107.52 1.82 60' 4300'DA
ASCD RA hood, 1.6rr's, aluminum driveshaft, 383, AFR 195's, CC306 cam, Hooker long tube headers dual 3" to Mufflex3.5", Holley Stealth Ram portmatched to 1205 gasket, AFPR, Megasquirt, plus a 3000 stall and shift kit.ET street radials on formula wheels and billet specialties street lite fronts.
I ran the MS V 2.2 and everything worked. All gauges. The check engine light did not. If you want to be able to run the stock computer, just build a wiring harness adapter that fits into both ECM's pigtails. That is what I did with my V3 MS. There really is no need to run both at the same time.
did your car have a seperate buffer for the speedometer or does it run off the stock ECM, it looks like in the service manual that tbi cars have a buffer and tpi cars run through the ecm. Maybe I need to find a buffer from a tbi car.
Well I got my megasquirt install almost complete it actually fires not technically running yet but it does fire. I'm using Megasquirt and spark extra to control fuel, timing, and soon to control fans, tcc lockup, n2o and knock sensor.
__________________ Old BEST
13.081@107 5800' elevation stock shortblock 100shot
new best
12.71@107.52 1.82 60' 4300'DA
ASCD RA hood, 1.6rr's, aluminum driveshaft, 383, AFR 195's, CC306 cam, Hooker long tube headers dual 3" to Mufflex3.5", Holley Stealth Ram portmatched to 1205 gasket, AFPR, Megasquirt, plus a 3000 stall and shift kit.ET street radials on formula wheels and billet specialties street lite fronts.
is anyone using this with a 6sp tranny from a 93-97 camaro, thats why I want to use the stock ecm so all my gauges work
the ECM has NOTHING to do with ANY of your gauges.
voltmeter is just connected to the gauge power wire.
oil pressure gauge goes to oilpressure sensor
temp gauge goes to the temp sensor on the drivers side head
tach goes to the coils tach output.
speedo is run off of a mechanical cable coming from the transmission.
power for the gauges comes from the gauges fuse.
ground from the chassis ground.
I think on all the '86 and newer cars, the speedomer runs off the Vehicle Speed Sensor which does route through the ECM. But the sensor itself is remote. On the firebirds it's located on the transmission, and on the Camaro's it's located under the dash. However, it doesn't have to route through the ECM if you buy an Autometer electronic speedometer gauge. Everything else I agree with.
I think on all the '86 and newer cars, the speedomer runs off the Vehicle Speed Sensor which does route through the ECM. But the sensor itself is remote. On the firebirds it's located on the transmission, and on the Camaro's it's located under the dash. However, it doesn't have to route through the ECM if you buy an Autometer electronic speedometer gauge. Everything else I agree with.
nope.
on Camaros, 82 to 89 were cable operated.. there is a VSS sensor on teh back of the gauge that gives the VSS to the ECM and the cruise control. but it doesnt run the gauge. the gauge is mechanical.
on camaros, 90 to 92 were electric. but the signal comes from either the VSS buffer box, or the sensor itself... you dont NEED the ECM there.. depending on the engine, you may need to redo a couple wires.. not a big deal by anymeans, but i didnt bother bringing it up, since he has a cable operated speedo in his car, and i didnt want to confuse him.
on firebirds... i forget the year split.. but cable operated ones work like the 82-89 camaros and elec speedo ones work like the 90+
not really unless you want to start with fuel tuning and integrate spark later or if you are trying to pass emissions the megasquirt does not have provisions for emissions control unless you want to program it in yourself.
__________________ Old BEST
13.081@107 5800' elevation stock shortblock 100shot
new best
12.71@107.52 1.82 60' 4300'DA
ASCD RA hood, 1.6rr's, aluminum driveshaft, 383, AFR 195's, CC306 cam, Hooker long tube headers dual 3" to Mufflex3.5", Holley Stealth Ram portmatched to 1205 gasket, AFPR, Megasquirt, plus a 3000 stall and shift kit.ET street radials on formula wheels and billet specialties street lite fronts.
hi if i understand correctly the MS can replace the ecm entirely except for the emmisions stuff or you can leave the ecm and MS. the MS controlling spark and fuel the ecm everything else. and you can control the MS with a laptop instead of burning chips.i am new to efi just bought a 91 z28 350 tpi and i am about to get setup to tune it. laptop,programmer ect. this looks like a much better option.also wondering what type of laptop $$ wise is required for this type of thing.any sugestions would be great thanks ED
$800 or free.....plus the cost of the ecu in the first place -this rates pretty high on the all-time list of no-brainers... 
