DFI and ECMDiscuss all aspects of DFI (Digital Fuel Injection), ECMs (Electronic Control Module), scanners, and diagnostic equipment. Fine tune your Third Gen computer system for top performance.
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
I was just wondering if anyone out there has installed/ran this harness and what they thought about it. I know it is fairly new but i have been wanting to do this for quite some time.
My efforts are to control a Holley Stealthrammed 355 and Vortech R-trim with the 0411
411 PCM controlling boost...........have you priced out the tuning software & scanner software yet? It is a shocker. Throw in a harness & vortec parts and the prices is up there. Is it really worth it? I agree that it would be a fun project, but it doesn't seem worth it unless there are freeware tuning/scanning tools.
From what Ive seen, those tuning software packages are kinda sparse as far as what the offer. Some things are even wrong, like allowing the user to mess with the force motor cal tables rather then the actual desired line pressure tables like you should be doing. Id give them a C-...
From what Ive seen, those tuning software packages are kinda sparse as far as what the offer. Some things are even wrong, like allowing the user to mess with the force motor cal tables rather then the actual desired line pressure tables like you should be doing. Id give them a C-...
I assume your refuring to the automatic transmission controls?
Im collecting parts to switch to TPI, and trying to find info on this swap. But nobody in the TPI section or PM's seems to be wanting to offer help.
Well, so far, I have found a TON of information regarding the swap, but still have yet to get any parts. I am still going over my list and checking it twice. I really hope to get my new project up and running soon! I look forward to keeping everyone updated on the project and telling you guys about any problems i am having!
I assume your refuring to the automatic transmission controls?
Im collecting parts to switch to TPI, and trying to find info on this swap. But nobody in the TPI section or PM's seems to be wanting to offer help.
How can I help? I have been the harness builder at EFI Connection doing these 0411 conversion harnesses for 3rd gens. I've experienced a few of the conversions and so far everyone has been very excited with the results of the newer electronics. What questions do you have? I'd like to help.
Does EFI Connection offer a LS1/TPI drop in harness? LS1 ECM?
Using a mostly stock TPI (just the usual mods....cat-back, K&N, etc....the basics) what would be needed, besides the harness & ECM, to complete the conversion?
I'm very interested in this too, as I have EFI Live and a complete TPI unit already, would just need a 411 PCM (can source easily) and this harness.
I am a little confused on the comments on the EFI Connection site though.
"Engine Modifications A crankshaft sensor and camshaft sensor must be added to the 1995 and older engines. If not using a Vortec engine, a 96-99 Vortec crank timing reluctor, timing cover, and crankshaft sensor must be installed. The four tooth crankshaft reluctor ring is installed behind the timing cover. The crankshaft sensor is installed into the Vortec timing cover. If not using a 96-99 Vortec balancer, the balancer must have material removed (surface mating to the crank timing sprocket) so that the crankshaft pulley does not extend beyond the other pulleys."
"Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Selection This system is designed to work with the 01-02 LS1 Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The GM part number for this PCM is 12200411. The 97-00 LS1 PCMs will not accept the necessary custom operating system to work with the 96-99 four tooth timing reluctor. No original GM calibration will operate this system, a reflash of the PCM is required."
Just to make sure I understand this part, I can build an engine using the Vortec 4 tooth reluctor, IF I use the 01-02 computer, correct? So all I'd need to do is build an engine using the Vortec sensors, install my TPI, wire it up and go, correct? This means it'll work with the Vortec distributor as well, or will I need to locate coil packs? Are there any roadblocks I'd need to be aware of when using this setup? EDIT - Whups, just saw the part numbers for the correct distrubutor on your page. Scrolling works wonders .
Also, I'm not a fan of the 4L60E transmission at all, what would need to be done to make a 7004R work properly? If nothing else I can probably set it up using a pressure switch off an 87 Chevy halfton truck, which used a little vacuum operated electrical switch and a brake pedal operated switch to control the transmission's electronics.
"Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Selection This system is designed to work with the 01-02 LS1 Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The GM part number for this PCM is 12200411. The 97-00 LS1 PCMs will not accept the necessary custom operating system to work with the 96-99 four tooth timing reluctor. No original GM calibration will operate this system, a reflash of the PCM is required."
Just to make sure I understand this part, I can build an engine using the Vortec 4 tooth reluctor, IF I use the 01-02 computer, correct? So all I'd need to do is build an engine using the Vortec sensors, install my TPI, wire it up and go, correct? This means it'll work with the Vortec distributor as well, or will I need to locate coil packs? Are there any roadblocks I'd need to be aware of when using this setup? EDIT - Whups, just saw the part numbers for the correct distrubutor on your page. Scrolling works wonders .
You can actually use a 2000-2002 Fullsize Express Van PCM. They came with the Vortec 305/350 as Factory Equipment and MOST used the 411 PCM. I used the complete harness out of one after I got tired of the "BLACK" boxes limitation. You can use the factory Vans calibration, IF you use the Vans MAF and use LT1 24# injectors.
You can actually use a 2000-2002 Fullsize Express Van PCM. They came with the Vortec 305/350 as Factory Equipment and MOST used the 411 PCM. I used the complete harness out of one after I got tired of the "BLACK" boxes limitation. You can use the factory Vans calibration, IF you use the Vans MAF and use LT1 24# injectors.
Interesting...
41 PCM+Express Van harness+24# injectors+(why would the MAF change be needed?)on a TPI+Vortec distributor=SEFI TPI?
I was thinking of just using a L31 long block with a TPI intake setup & the 411.
41 PCM+Express Van harness+24# injectors+(why would the MAF change be needed?)on a TPI=SEFI TPI?
The late model MAFs work off of FREQUENCY, not the old ANALOG 0-5 volt signal of the old TPI style MAFs. The reason to use the VAN MAF is that it is right for the calibration withing the PCM. GM has produced DOZENS of DIFFERENT MAFs over the past 10 years that all look very similar, but the calibrations are VERY different.
The reason for the 24# injectors, is that the Vortec engines have injectors that are equivalent to 24# @ 60 PSI (19.5# @ 43.5 PSI, but run at about 60-62 psi)
You can't use a 700R4 trans with the LS1 ecm unless you purchase an aftermarket lock up kit. Or you could run non-lockup but that would not be a good idea. Running unlocked all the time creates a bit of heat in the fluid. poor translife too.
You can't use a 700R4 trans with the LS1 ecm unless you purchase an aftermarket lock up kit. Or you could run non-lockup but that would not be a good idea. Running unlocked all the time creates a bit of heat in the fluid. poor translife too.
I was running mine off of the LS1 ECM. Just told the computer it was still attached to a 4L60E and disabled the error code check bits on the errors that came up. The 4L60E still uses a lockup solenoid. You need a 140,000 pulse per mile truck reluctor ring and VSS though.
You can't use a 700R4 trans with the LS1 ecm unless you purchase an aftermarket lock up kit. Or you could run non-lockup but that would not be a good idea. Running unlocked all the time creates a bit of heat in the fluid. poor translife too.
Any info on this lock-up kit?
It's sounding like the easiest way to do this, is to pull an Express Van engine, 411 ECM, harness, swap on a SPDC TPI base, then use your TPI runners, and you've got a SEFI TPI.
The 1986 or 1987 truck used a 700R4, with no computer control at all. There was a vacuum operated electrical switch that turned lockup on when the truck is in 4th gear, and I'm pretty sure it only locked in 4th gear. I suppose if the trans was set up to allow lockup in 3rd gear, all it would require is to see the signal from the vacuum switch to lock it in 3rd. A brake switch was used to disable it. Vacuum was taken off the manifold (ported), so when the throttle plate was opened it would see the vacuum signal drop and release the lockup. Very simple operation, and would not require the reluctor ring or VSS signal to operate. Unless I wind up needing that other stuff, I'd likely run with the vacuum operated lockup, which worked great.
I looked at that Vortec TPI base, and it does look like that would be a cheaper way to go than trying to get a new set of heads, but I've not decided yet. Still playing with the idea of aluminum heads and more compression.
Sounds like I'm getting my list of parts together here then. Thanks for the info folks!
Edited to reflect ported vacuum. Been years since I've messed with one, thanks for the correction.
The 1986 or 1987 truck used a 700R4, with no computer control at all. There was a vacuum operated electrical switch that turned lockup on when the truck is in 4th gear, and I'm pretty sure it only locked in 4th gear. I suppose if the trans was set up to allow lockup in 3rd gear, all it would require is to see the signal from the vacuum switch to lock it in 3rd. A brake switch was used to disable it. Vacuum was taken off the manifold, so when the throttle plate was opened it would see the vacuum signal drop and release the lockup. Very simple operation, and would not require the reluctor ring or VSS signal to operate. Unless I wind up needing that other stuff, I'd likely run with the vacuum operated lockup, which worked great.
I looked at that Vortec TPI base, and it does look like that would be a cheaper way to go than trying to get a new set of heads, but I've not decided yet. Still playing with the idea of aluminum heads and more compression.
Sounds like I'm getting my list of parts together here then. Thanks for the info folks!
Does this mean, there is a factory non-ECM option to use, on a TPI L31?
Does this mean, there is a factory non-ECM option to use, on a TPI L31?
Yes it does, except the lockup works different than explained.
My 1983 G20 Van had this setup, I even have the Vacuum switch and internal transmission pressure switches and wiring harness somewhere. The TCC locked in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears with sufficient vacuum. The switch on the van allowed lockup over 6 in/hg of vacuum and released at about 4 in/hg. The vacuum source was from PORTED vacuum, VERY important. Otherwise on MANIFOLD vacuum the TCC will stay locked as you are decelerating, even down to LOW LOW speeds. With PORTED Vacuum, when you let off the gas, the vacuum switch opens and unlocks the TCC.
.
