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I just did my S10, for the TBI 2.8 to 3.4 swap, I retained the TBI PCM as well. Let me pull out my wiring diagrams and I will tell you what to do. It was pretty simple when I did it. Works very well, compared to the distributer.
Here we go, posting two wiring diagrams for this. I had my whole wiring harness out of the looms and all the tape removed. I swapped from TBI to MPFI at the same time. I stayed speed density and used the TBI/CPI PCM running a 60E as well. The engine started and ran on the stock 4.3 CPI calibration and I am tweaking it from there. THe DIS coil pack had the same 10* initial timing setting as the distributer and used the same wiring setup. The ECM/PCM is just as capable of running the DIS packs as it is the stock distributer. No interchangeability problem. The 3X crank sensor near the knock sensor has the exact same function as the reluctor in the distributer setup. The module and coil packs take up the mechanical and electrical function of the distributer. Pretty simple, just a step up in technology.
You should be able to match the wires up in the two diagrams I am including fairly easily. There is one minor change to the DIS diagram, the wire at the two pin DIS connector A, the ground will need to be grounded to the engine, not the PCM. I grounded it with a soldered on ring terminal, to one of the DIS coil bolts. Engine runs great.
BE SURE TO SOLDER AND HEAT SHRINK the connections.
More specifically he has a '7730 ECM (as I do) and want to use the 3.4 with DIS to adapt some high-flowing heads. The manifolds don't allow clearance for the dizzy.
AFAIK the ICM is looking for the same 5v ref as the HEI and would be a direct swap so long as you can get a crank signal (3x crank journal).
*so* my though is to get the car started for break-in, a DIS memcal could be used in the '7730 because we are using the aluminum heads that require much less advance on the timing (~4X* max for iron head memcals, and ~2X* max for the AL heads).
More specifically he has a '7730 ECM (as I do) and want to use the 3.4 with DIS to adapt some high-flowing heads. The manifolds don't allow clearance for the dizzy.
AFAIK the ICM is looking for the same 5v ref as the HEI and would be a direct swap so long as you can get a crank signal (3x crank journal).
*so* my though is to get the car started for break-in, a DIS memcal could be used in the '7730 because we are using the aluminum heads that require much less advance on the timing (~4X* max for iron head memcals, and ~2X* max for the AL heads).
Am I missing something?
That is exactly why I swapped. I've got ported 3400 heads and top-end on a solid cammed 3.4 in a S10 Blazer backed to a 60E. Tuning is still in the preliminary stages, but I have made part-throttle pulls to 6K rpm so far. The aluminum head 3400s can have up to 40* of timing advance at part-throttle and run about 30* @ WOT and top rpm.
I'm posting a link in the v6 board if you don't mind. The guys over there need to see how easy this swap is. Maybe we'll see a few more 3x00 top end swaps crop up.
I'm posting a link in the v6 board if you don't mind. The guys over there need to see how easy this swap is. Maybe we'll see a few more 3x00 top end swaps crop up.
HaHa, cool. I was kind of hoping for a write-up from someone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast355
That is exactly why I swapped. I've got ported 3400 heads and top-end on a solid cammed 3.4 in a S10 Blazer backed to a 60E. Tuning is still in the preliminary stages, but I have made part-throttle pulls to 6K rpm so far. The aluminum head 3400s can have up to 40* of timing advance at part-throttle and run about 30* @ WOT and top rpm.
Did you use 3400 pistons? I'm using 3.4 pistons and will be having an 11.5:1 SCR. If you are getting away with 30* on 9.6:1, I think the FWD mamcal might run it. I'm sure tuning is still needed, but for the DD's that need a running rig...
Russel has been running a 3400/3.4 hybrid for years on the same OBD1.5 ECM and has even got a hot cam. The ECM gets upset according to him, but it runs daily.
Last edited by firstfirebird; 02-19-2008 at 11:08 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
HaHa, cool. I was kind of hoping for a write-up from someone
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Did you use 3400 pistons? I'm using 3.4 pistons and will be having an 11.5:1 SCR. If you are getting away with 30* on 9.6:1, I think the FWD mamcal might run it. I'm sure tuning is still needed, but for the DD's that need a running rig...
Russel has been running a 3400/3.4 hybrid for years on the same OBD1.5 ECM and has even got a hot cam. The ECM gets upset according to him, but it runs daily.
I am running the stock 3.4 camaro pistons, 3500 heads, and 3.5 head gasket, it is just over 11:1 compression(The chambers have been re-worked to unshroud the valves even more). It has a 272H10 cam in it, which helps decrease cylinder pressure. The PCM is actually from a TBI truck and runs the 4L60E. I have been tuning with it for a few years now and it has been fully hacked. I have had no problems getting it dialed in so far. GM is the one that got away with 30* on their stock engines. I am running about 26*BTDC @ 3,600 rpm on 87 octane fuel, with no signs of detonation.
I am running the stock 3.4 camaro pistons, 3500 heads, and 3.5 head gasket, it is just over 11:1 compression(The chambers have been re-worked to unshroud the valves even more). It has a 272H10 cam in it, which helps decrease cylinder pressure. The PCM is actually from a TBI truck and runs the 4L60E. I have been tuning with it for a few years now and it has been fully hacked. I have had no problems getting it dialed in so far. GM is the one that got away with 30* on their stock engines. I am running about 26*BTDC @ 3,600 rpm on 87 octane fuel, with no signs of detonation.
And here I was thinking I was the first to try this combo. Seems as though people are scared of the high CR, but I was going to use the 3.4 gaskets to get 12.3:1, but was nervous about .0305" quench and 7000RPM's - riding on a 230/236dur .510/.520 lift cam
I should be making ~300hp at 7k with a 7200RPM redline.
After the N/A testing is finished, I'll be swapping some 3400 pistons (9.1:1scr) and using two to4e turbos
You need to come over to fullthrottlev6.com and post up in the 60* section. Help me coax some more 3.4's to do the swap :P
I had no idea you were into 60*'s!!!
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Did you use Gen2 pushrods?
I'm also adapting some full roller rockers (AL), fully ported/polished intakes, mirror polished runners, LS6 springs and LS1 shims (max lift of .5613"). IF I had sprung for the Comp tool steel springs, I could have upped the lift to about .550" - would have been another $110, though.
Heh, it's a dirty little secret. Some guys are too afraid to admit that they're not working on a v8. Or maybe it's the bad rep that 60*'s have.
I've never been afraid to work with a 60*V6 or admit that I work with one. I've had numerous 60*V6 powered S10 Blazers/Jimmys over the past few years and actually like them better than their 4.3 powered brothers.
EDIT- On a side note, I am laughing about the timing cover. Its amazing what happens when a little piece of un-needed material meets a cut-off wheel. I did the same thing. I am using 3.4 F-car accessories in my S10.
EDIT2- My pushrods were for an late 80s/early 90s 2.8/3.1 MPFI that had aluminum heads and lacked a roller camshaft. Went searching for an off the shelf pushrod that was the right length and that is what I found. I am running LS1 conical valve springs on the heads along with a little port work. I am hoping to see 240 FWHP @ 6,000 with a strong torque curve from idle-redline. Would really suit the heavy 4x4 S10 well. It has a 3.4 F-car 4L60E torque converter in it that was stalling at about 2,600 rpm, behind the 3.1 TBI.
This engine setup is new. I had a previous 2.8 with 3100 heads (mid 11:1 compression, forget exactly) in a 2wd S-10 blazer with a 5 spd behind it. Ran that engine on a DIS setup and an early V6 MAF ECM. I shifted it at 6,500 on numerous ocassions with the stock cam in it.
It has a 3500 plenum, mounted with the TB facing the front of the truck, but the TB was off of a junkyard GM vehicle. I am sure I could probably track down which one, but it bolted right on in place of the electrical job. The bore is a little smaller, but it was a simple bolt-on, that got rid of the additional electronics.
I haven't flowed any of the FWD heads, have you? If so do you have a flow chart that I can input into a dyno sim?
Might have been a 3400 TB? GM has a few that fit and the sensors work, but I'm looking to utilize the 65mm bore in the plenum.
I also hae a Vortech (5.7/4.3) TB that's 70mm. I may port the plenum for it.
Do you realize that the stock 3500 heads flow ~218CFM @.500" - with the manifold attached? That's well overe 1200CFM capability without porting. I'm curious to see what happens when I get the boost back on it!
I've never been afraid to work with a 60*V6 or admit that I work with one. I've had numerous 60*V6 powered S10 Blazers/Jimmys over the past few years and actually like them better than their 4.3 powered brothers.
Not you specifically, just the hotrodding community in general. I love v8's too, but for some guys it like they're compensating for something...
Not you specifically, just the hotrodding community in general. I love v8's too, but for some guys it like they're compensating for something...
I know what you mean there, I am on FSC currently defending the old 350 TBI engine against the LSx guys. They seem to forget how well an old small block would respond to decent heads and a good camshaft. 500+ hp without too much difficulty from the 350. Yet I still see, "All Hail the 5.3".
Going from diagrams 1&2 it looks like a pretty simple hooke up going by the wire numbers and colors the only one I'm not sure about is on the coil pack diagram where it has a ground at the top which is 450 blk/wht is that an additional ground that needs to be added? where you said(the wire at the two pin DIS connector A, the ground will need to be grounded to the engine) are you talking about 453 blk/red? When I go and get some coil packs what do you recommend getting them off of there is a local salvage yard that has about everything. My car is also a 5 speed so will that help out on the advancing of timing?
I am running the stock 3.4 camaro pistons, 3500 heads, and 3.5 head gasket, it is just over 11:1 compression(The chambers have been re-worked to unshroud the valves even more). It has a 272H10 cam in it, which helps decrease cylinder pressure. The PCM is actually from a TBI truck and runs the 4L60E. I have been tuning with it for a few years now and it has been fully hacked. I have had no problems getting it dialed in so far. GM is the one that got away with 30* on their stock engines. I am running about 26*BTDC @ 3,600 rpm on 87 octane fuel, with no signs of detonation.
How did you get it to run the 4L60E? I would like to be able to swap some OBD1.5's for OBD1's if it can work the e trans. The 94-95 4th Gen 3.4 could use this info.
ok i see whats going on here, but im missing something, what did u do to switch over to get oil through the engine without a distributor, and if i used a 3.4 out of a 93-95 camaro, the crank in that engine has the crank sensor for running coil packs? and either way the new wiring for the coil packs would have to be ran into the ecm? not spliced into the existing ignition wires that went to the distributor?
ok i see whats going on here, but im missing something, what did u do to switch over to get oil through the engine without a distributor, and if i used a 3.4 out of a 93-95 camaro, the crank in that engine has the crank sensor for running coil packs? and either way the new wiring for the coil packs would have to be ran into the ecm? not spliced into the existing ignition wires that went to the distributor?
There is an oil pump drive shaft that uses a gear to turn the oil pump, almost like a blank distributor.
You will need a dummy distributor. The oil pump is driven by a hex shaped shaft that goes into the bottom of the distributor. Cam turns the distrib, distrib turns the oil pump shaft, which turns the oil pump.
im trying to understanding the wiring diagram for wiring up the coil packs from a dist. and im just curious if someone has a picture of this already done so i can see what it should look like?(basicly of the coil packs and the wires from the harness to the coil packs, apreciate it if anyone has one.
On your coil pack you'll have 3 plugs. The end of the coil pack with 1 plug is a hot and ground wire hot when key is on (450 blk/wht is hot, then B is ground). The end with 2 plugs is, small plug is your crankshaft poistion sensor (yellow and purple wires), and the big plug on the same end is the wires that came from your distributor modgul, you'll have to change the connectors. Odds is if you have a tach you'll have to add the tach wire at C in the big plug.
Here we go, posting two wiring diagrams for this. I had my whole wiring harness out of the looms and all the tape removed. I swapped from TBI to MPFI at the same time. I stayed speed density and used the TBI/CPI PCM running a 60E as well. The engine started and ran on the stock 4.3 CPI calibration and I am tweaking it from there. THe DIS coil pack had the same 10* initial timing setting as the distributer and used the same wiring setup. The ECM/PCM is just as capable of running the DIS packs as it is the stock distributer. No interchangeability problem. The 3X crank sensor near the knock sensor has the exact same function as the reluctor in the distributer setup. The module and coil packs take up the mechanical and electrical function of the distributer. Pretty simple, just a step up in technology.
You should be able to match the wires up in the two diagrams I am including fairly easily. There is one minor change to the DIS diagram, the wire at the two pin DIS connector A, the ground will need to be grounded to the engine, not the PCM. I grounded it with a soldered on ring terminal, to one of the DIS coil bolts. Engine runs great.
BE SURE TO SOLDER AND HEAT SHRINK the connections.
sorry to grave dig, but i'm looking for info on switching my v8 with a 730 to coil packs of some kind and found this thread in a search.
any chance you know of a 8 poll coil that could be wired in as easy as your 6 poll seems to be and just run off the 4 tooth wheel?
I am looking for the year. or vehicle, that carry in a v-6-60 point distributor and coil, I am taking all of the electronic out and running basic wiring for bracket racing
i know its kinda dif but just checkin cause i dont have much knowledge about coil packs. so i can get a dummy plug to run the oil pump for my tbi 350 im workin on switchin the top end on. then just wire the coil packs to the ecm? or am i way off base?
