72vega

what year did they start using it(the pcm), or is it all about 2001-ish?

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S10Wildside

12200411 PCM is 2001 through 2002. After that most vehicles got the 1 meg PCM (not 12200411).

72vega

copy that. thanks

72vega

oh also, would i have to use a newer factory gauge cluster or could i use, say, autometer gauges for a custom install? ( i ask b/c on your site that you are doing a 4th gen interior swap and say that the dash is "completely compatible" with the pcm, which is completely understandable.. but does that make it incompatible with older factory clusters like my digital one in my 88 GTA??)

S10Wildside

The 3rd gen instrument cluster receives most signals from sending units on the engine. The ECM is only used for the speedometer (in some cases and unless the vehicle is equipped with a speedometer cable).

Speedometer
For vehicles equipped with an electronic speedometer, a 4000 pulse must be sent to the speedometer to read properly. The LS1 PCM has two speed outputs. One can be set to 4000ppm and the other can be set to 2000ppm for the cruise control module.

Tachometer
This could be an issue, but Dakota Digital does make a box that can rework the tach signal. I do not have experience with their product or a part number, but am aware that it exists. If using the Vortec distributor system, you won't have a problem with the tach signal from the coil. If using a coil per cylinder system, you may have issues with the tach signal from the PCM.

72vega

black89ws6

What are the advantages of running the LS1 PCM this way, versus the vortec distributor?

S10Wildside

Most Importantly
- It's a better ignition system.
- Having 8 coils (compared to one) will provide better spark distribution in the upper RPMs.
- It's an ideal replacement to the LT1 optispark distributor.

Less Importantly
- It makes electronic throttle control possible for the early small block engines. This also significantly simplifies the cruise control system.
- It opens up the possibility for the PCM to control reverse lockout (T56 only).

VAN454

The more I think about it, the more I am tempted by this setup. I will have to do an engine swap anyway as I have a 305 TPI, but if I build a nice 350/383 the improved tunability of the LS1 PCM should give me better drivability with a lumpy cam. Or am I way off?

S10Wildside

I do think the LS1 system will control a lumpy cam better than the TPI electronics will.
----------
UPDATE!

We're fitting the custom 24x crank ring for a double roller chain. By the time we're done, it should be universal for the single roller, double roller, and LT1. We're close.

My S10 is going to be the prototype vehicle for this system. If all goes well, this will be on the road in a next few weeks. Also, a friend's 33 Willys will get this system very soon and spend some time on the road. The 91 Trans Am will still get this system, but will be finished next year...which isn't to say the drive train won't be in the Trans Am this year.

More information will be available as progress is made.

Fast355

I would love to get my hand on the 24x crank ring when you get them into production.

Saigon_Bob

AEM sells a cam sync for SBC

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory...CategoryID=122

S10Wildside

I just called AEM at 310-484-2322 option 2, to get more details. I explained that the LS1 PCM uses a 24x uneven pattern and a 1x cam signal. I was told that the AEM EPM will not work with the LS1 PCM. He said that it is designed to work with aftermarket Engine Control Modules and not with factory original control modules.

I suppose he could be wrong, but you will have to find out what that 24x signal looks like to know if it can work (or be made to work) with the LS1 PCM.

It would be a bonus if it did work, however this would not be desirable in the LT1 car.

Saigon_Bob

Yea i hadn't researched much into it because of my current set up being a MSII HSR gen1 but the idea of indivdual coils was intriguing.

I saw the cam sync there when i was lookin into widebands.

I still might go full ls-x due to the increasing after market and awesome factory specs...

but like i said this is a neat side project to consider for future projects or friends cars lol...

I remember a while back the set up you stuck in the astro van build u did ( iirc it was you ) was neat because i love those vans for some reason and having an unneccesarily fast one would be cool...

the highlander

I cant wait for this.. I already have my car setup for the COP system... so I just need to remove my crank and remachine it for the big block housing. Hoping it fits with the double roller on the LT1 and we are GOOD TO GO!

S10Wildside

We learned early this week that the double roller chain is a problem with the production GM 24x big block crank ring. The amout of material that must be taken away to clear the chain will destroy the ring, making it unusable. We're working on an alternative that will make the 24x ring universal (single roller, double roller, and LT1).

VAN454

So are you planning to sell kits? Or harnesses? Or detailed instructions? You have me on the hook, now just real me in..........

S10Wildside

Yes, we are working toward offering kits (or just the individual pieces)...24x crank ring, crank sensor, timing cover, Vortec distributor, sealed distributor cap, coils, coil brackets, coil harness, knock sensor(s) and custom engine harness. I doubt we'll offer a PCM calibration, but it's not entirely out of the question.

EFI Connection is a harness shop and not a tuning shop. We have our hands full with harness work...bringing tuning into the mix will require time we don't currently have.

We're trying to make this as easy as possible. It should be an easy installation with the ring behind the timing cover. An external crank ring solution (using the actual LS1 crank reluctor) would have been a nightmare to set up correctly. You can't just thow the ring on the engine and have it work right. The orientation of the ring is critical (as well as the relationship of the cam and crank signals) and that's why we're working toward some road time and some dyno time while we work on the final production of the pieces. The crank ring has a keyway that slips over the crank snout. We're working out the details to make this a simple installation. And that takes some time to get it right.

S10Wildside

Join the email newsletter

We're going to begin sending a newsletter to provide details, images, and updates to the coil per cylinder project (and its variations). If you would like to be added to the email list, please email me at mike@eficonnection.com to let me know.

scuzz

I signed up. Should be informative.
Thanks Mike.
Ron

VAN454

Email sent

S10Wildside

Thank you. I'm working on the newsletter and should have something out in the next week or so. We met with a manufacturer last Thursday are a waiting for a quote and build time for the 24x ring.

Saigon_Bob

i signed up... im prolly go full ls-x swap but new info is always making me drool... plus i have more cars to mod hahaha

S10Wildside

Because there is so much additional work to do with the 91 Trans Am, a coil per cylider engine is going into my S10 for testing, road time, and dyno time.

Last week another Ram Jet 350 engine was built using the short block that was in the S10.

- 1987 355ci short block
- GMPP Vortec Heads
- LT4 HOT cam
- GMPP 1.6 roller rockers
- Ram Jet 350 Intake Manifold
- Corvette LS1 Throttle Body (electronic)
- Corvette LS1 Coils

The 700R4 came out of the truck to be replaced by a 4L60E. The 700R4 was too frustrating to work with. After a fresh rebuilt it never shifted right at wide open thottle. The transmission shop said it was a govener issue and could be adjusted. Why bother? The 4L60E is completely configurable through the PCM. A local transmission shop replaced with 2wd output shaft in a 1997 Trans Am 4L60E transmission with a 4x4 output shaft to accept the all wheel drive transfer case. A 1600 rpm stall torque converter for a 2002 vehicle is going to be used due to the way the PCM pulses the TCC solenoid. The transmission shop is saying that you can not (or should not?) use the early torque converter with the newer PCM. In other words, the torque converter should match the PCM being used. I'm not savvy with transmissions, so I'm just taking the advice of the transmission shop.

So what is the current progress with this system?

On Friday night the new engine was built and running on the test stand. A little time was spent with the Road Runner and EFILive to do some quick tuning to fix the A/F at idle. The engine was pulled from the stand yesterday and put into the truck.







The 4L60E went into the truck yesterday. We chose to use the gear selector switch for a convenient park/neutral indicator signal. There are other ways to get this signal, but the decision to have the longer shaft installed in the transmission to use this switch has more to do with me just being thorough about the installation. The Corvette calibration is expecting this switch, but an alternative park/neutral ground signal can be sent to pins 32 and 34 of the blue PCM connector to acheive similar results. I can be fussy about things like this...even though it does cost a little extra to set up.

gixxer92

Nice work! I'm looking forward to your progress!

rocko350

i have reffered a bunch of guys over to here from an impala ss board due to the possibility of upgrades to the LT series of engines.

S10Wildside

Sounds good. We'll get back on the LT1 as soon as the S10 is on the road with the coil per cylinder system.

scuzz

Here's the list of vehicles that run the 12200411 PCM.
You can re-flash any of them.
http://198.208.187.182/internet/Vehi...&part=12200411

S10Wildside

The S10 is getting very close to being ready for the road.

Here are a few pics of the latest progress.

Gemp

Subscribing.....and sent email for newsletter. I'm very interested to see where the LT1 part of this goes. Plus,I was planning a LS swap in my tbi truck. This may be another option. Good work so far.

the highlander

Will that intake bolt to an LT4 set of heads? does it provide better flow??? I do like the ETC though...

Thanks

S10Wildside

The LT1/LT4 intake bolt pattern is unique. It does not match the gen 1 SBC or Vortec intake bolt pattern.

72vega

how good of an intake is the ram jet 350 intake (from your experiences)? when you come out with a kit for this, would it be worth it to get P/N 12498032 ram jet fuel injection kit and use most of it less the ignition stuff? i imagine its alot better intake than the TPI on my super awesome 305 that id like to kill right now... all i can say is i cant wait for this to be for sale.. im getting sick of dealing with crappy ODB1...

S10Wildside

The GM Performance Parts Ram Jet 350 kit is sold for under $1500.00. It includes EVERYTHING but the ECM and harness. If you have Vortec heads, you can not beat the price of this kit. Try piecing together another manifold, injectors, fuel rails, sensors, intake manifold bolts, all gaskets, distributor, coil, coil to distributor harness, etc. It's a very good deal. This coil per cylinder system takes it to the next level with simple bolt-on electronic throttle control using the LS1 PCM. The distributor and coil it comes with are not usable for the coil per cylinder system.

72vega

what type of vortec heads are you runnin? would the system (your system) be good on a 383 with a 4 speed supter t10 trans?

KENS80V

When using the electronic throttle controlled throttle bodies from the Corvette is there any additional modules needed? What is the TAC? Will this be needed as well? When adding a filter directly to a LS1 throttle body what is the filter inlet size? It seems to be slightly larger than 3.5".

S10Wildside

Almost road ready!

A lot of time has been spent recently on this truck. On Friday night the engine was started for the first time in the truck. Here is a current image of the engine bay.



A little more about electronic throttle...
This past year I've come to prefer electronic throttle rather than a cable driven throttle system. My daily driver is a 2003 Silverado (which has electronic throttle). The most noticable improvement compared to any cable driven throttle vehicle I've driven is cruise control. It's smooth with just about no lag time.

No Idle Air Control Motor
Here's an interesting tidbit about idle control. Take a look at the following video showing how the engine idles. Notice the throttle blade move to maintain idle.http://www.eficonnection.com/project...s/engine02.mpg.

S10Wildside

Sunday
Got the battery mounted in the stock battery tray, making the truck moveable. Pulled the truck outside to do some tuning. Fuel pressure dropped to under 10psi, halting progress.

Monday
Order new fuel pump and tachometer calibation module (Dakota Digital) to get the LS1 PCM tach working with the S-10's 6cyl tach.

Tuesday
Pull the sending unit to find a split hose between the fuel pump and pickup tube. Fixed hose, assembled fuel hoses at tank, engine fired right up. Spent several hours tuning with EFILive to correct the air/fuel. Drove the truck a mile or so to verify the transmission was working as it should (the 4L60E was a really good choice). No tuning issues what-so-ever.

Wednesday
More dash wiring. Continue to test all functionality. Replaced broken cruise control multifunction lever on steering column. Waiting for new torque converter lockup brake switch (original is broken) to make cruise control functional.

KENS80V

How is the quality of the Vortec distributors with the aluminum housings that are being sold by "ignition dk" on Ebay? I see that you bought one some time ago. Does it have the required "melonized" gear as needed for roller cams?

S10Wildside

It was a great fit. There are a few hours of run time on the enigne and no obvious problems. I didn't pay attention to the gear because it's a Vortec replacement distributor and all Vortec engines use a roller cam.

S10Wildside

UPDATE

The truck passed inspection today (back on the road after 5 years of collecting dust).

Initial tuning on the road is going very well. The engine did set a DTC for Knock Sensor 1 Low Frequency (twice now). After logging spark retard due to knock, I think this DTC is a result of knock that does not clear with spark retard. The service manual instructs that 9 seconds of the PCM receiving a signal other than expected will result in the DTC. I'm going to spend more time with the calibration today to get rid of all knock and see if the DTC will set.

So far the truck has been enjoyable to drive with no hiccups from the engine. It pulls strong and smooth. It definitely sounds agressive and not what you would expect from a little S10 pickup!

Fast355

Glad to hear it

I think you are understating the fact that the little S10 probably HAULS ***!!!

S10Wildside

That's fair to say. I haven't taken it past 4,000rpm yet, but so far it really moves. I've wanted coil per cylinder and electronic throttle for almost two years now. Hopefully everything continues to go well and others can soon install this system.

blue91z28cam

Suscribed to the newsletter....this is some great work man keep it up

S10Wildside

Here is a finished pic of the truck. For yesterday's car show passers-by were able to have a little fun with the electronic throttle!



After fixing a header collector gasket leak the truck got a few hours of run time last evening to just about finalize the VE tuning (fuel table). We spent some time with the spark table to correct for some detonation issues under heavy throttle. The engine was completely responsive to the fuel/spark changes. There has been no ignition problems and no surging under acceleration. The truck pulls straight, smooth, and strong. Electronic throttle is a comfortable feel and cruise control is "spot on" when set.

I have to throw in some props for Craig Moates RoadRunner PCM, the new Innovate LM2 Wideband Controller, and EFILive. Tuning this engine has been a breeze with this equipment. Last night I sat in the passenger seat while Troy (twadam) drove the truck. Does it get any easier than this?

All while driving on the highway and never stopping the truck...
- Set up a map for logging spark retard due to knock
- Kept our eyes on the wideband A/F
- Troy dropped MPH to 45, then heavily accelerated to about 6,000RPM
- Watched for spark retard due to knock
- Made appropriate changes to the calibration's High/Low Octane Spark Tables
- Click the RoadRunner's Update button (while still driving)
- "Meep! Meep!" (The sound effect I set that occurs during an update!)
- Clear previous operating data
- Dropped MPH to 45, then heavily accelerated to about 6,000RPM
- and so on...

The ONLY current issue we're seeing is a Knock Sensor 1 Low Frequency DTC that only seems to set when spark retard due to knock is present. We're using two knock sensors, and never a DTC for sensor 2. We're going to further investigate this from a harness, sensor, and calibration standpoint.

To Do:
Enable closed loop and correct the injector to bank assignments in the calibration to correct bank to bank fueling. All tuning so far has been in open loop with the wideband O2.

the highlander

Faulty wiring on the knock sensors?? I still have to investigate the issue of differences in calibrations...

Wow.. cruise control... I just can't wait till i hear my car fire right up and hit that resume button!

S10Wildside

- Break in a wire? (I've seen it once in new length of wire)
- Defective sensor connector?
- Defective terminal?
- Connector not properly seated?

the highlander

I am leaning towards a problem in wiring or the terminal not seated correctly inside the sensor... or a bad sensor...

If you tap the sensor with the engine on it should generate voltage to the PCM and signal a knock retard.

One other thing.. you can switch sensors and see if you start getting a bank 2 p0332 code. That way you can rule out: 1) wiring 2) sensor

If its the wiring, it will still give you the same code... if its the sensor you will start getting a p0332.

On the various different calibrations the B6226 do have the same value for knock sensor frequency, which is 5.5. Either from an express van 6L or 8.1L. Which means, knock hardware perse only changes from its physical dimensions.

It could be easier for you, to avoid mess and what not... to switch pin outs on the PCM connector to do the swap.

gas

I am aware the CNP ignition system combined with the 411 PCM was OEM for the '01-'02 Camaro/Fbird, '01-'03 Vette, and '01-'03 5.3 Vortec. I now understand certain years/models equipped with the 7.4 or 8.1 engine 411 PCM combo, came OEM with the CNP ignition system and sealed cap. Any help pointing me in a direction to determine the specific years/models of 7.4 and 8.1 would be appreciated.

Gary

rocko350

This is the very reason that i had such a large amount of time getting this to work on my engine. It still doesnt work correctly. The reluctor would always move out of position. I even had one machined to use the corvette balancer hub, then the reluctor, then the b body balancer. It still moved around and lost sensor resolution due to a "heavy" unsupported piece. Excellent work keep it up. Same as Fast, i'll be calling fo a couple when there ready.