LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Control
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Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Semi interested in how you have done this, I love working with the 7730 and really doubt there is much to gain for me other than some resolution. But I am running a early SBC in 94 firebird (Just purchased some connectors off your company, t56 reverse switch and vss - thanks, very fast shipping and great communication. I had also asked about the speedo, got that working as well, between pulse devisor and using the cruise control output which is 2000 vs 4000, got 94 factory speedo pretty close. Anyway using the early SBC I have to drop K-Member to change plug wires being they are directly against bottom of cowl. I would be very interested in getting rid of the DIS..
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Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87_TA
Semi interested in how you have done this, I love working with the 7730 and really doubt there is much to gain for me other than some resolution. But I am running a early SBC in 94 firebird (Just purchased some connectors off your company, t56 reverse switch and vss - thanks, very fast shipping and great communication. I had also asked about the speedo, got that working as well, between pulse devisor and using the cruise control output which is 2000 vs 4000, got 94 factory speedo pretty close. Anyway using the early SBC I have to drop K-Member to change plug wires being they are directly against bottom of cowl. I would be very interested in getting rid of the DIS..
After the conversion the worst case scenerio is that you would have to adjust the cam sensor (rotate distributor). Sure beats dropping the engine through the bottom to service!
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Mike.....do you have any final recommendations for the knock sensors. I'm about to purchase a custom made harness from you and reluctor ring (when back in stock). The knock sensors are the last sensors I need to collect.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by KENS80V
Mike.....do you have any final recommendations for the knock sensors. I'm about to purchase a custom made harness from you and reluctor ring (when back in stock). The knock sensors are the last sensors I need to collect.
Not yet. The sensor in the S10 won't be changed until this spring (it appears to be bad).
The first 24x LT1 conversion will be running with 96/97 LT1 knock sensors. That engine may be running in the upcoming weeks.
Fortunatley the knock sensors won't get in the way of a harness build (unless you want to try the 2 wire "flat response" type sensors...which were used with the LS2 and appear to be compatible with the LS1 PCM according to EFILive).
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
A big thanks to Mike in Wisconsin for sharing videos of his 24x LT1 installation progress. Mike sent a few videos of the engine running on the dyno. The engine may be hooked up to the water brake this week to apply load.
Keep in mind that Mike is using a calibration that we are using on our test stand. It's rough at best and needs a lot of work. However, you'd hardly know it seeing this engine run.
Mike purchased:
- 24x LT1 crank reluctor
- he had a 24x crank sensor
- 24x LT1 conversion harness (stand alone type for his pickup truck...which works well for the dyno)
- cam sensor, housing, and target
- 96-97 LT1 crank key (GM# 12550096)
- used LS type coils (truck coils I think)
His comments have been:
- it fired up first try
- throttle response is perceived as better than with the original electronics
- a few emissions trouble codes have set (fuel level, fuel sensor, AIR pump, skip shift...all need to be disabled in the calibration)
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyota h8r
looks cool....what kind of price would i be looking at for doing the swap on a 91 trans am with a l98?
$525.00 for a base package that will equip an L98 with the required 24x crank and 1x cam signals.
Beyond that, it all depends on what you are willing/able to do yourself. We're building new 24x engine harnesses starting at $650 (stand alone type), we're offering a set of new LS coils for $200, you still need tuning software, a PCM, a tuner, and other odds and ends along the way.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
what about a previous carb. sbc?
ok to use with a sbc efi vic jr, ls 90mm tb?,
car made 430rwhp n/a with vic jr, hp 750, msd ignition.
what do use to drive oil pump? lt1 dizzy?
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by NemeSS-TyranT
what about a previous carb. sbc?
Previous carb? You mean a pre-87 small block? A small block with a 2 piece rear seal? Everything should fit okay.
Quote:
ok to use with a sbc efi vic jr, ls 90mm tb?
Everything should fit okay. And as long as it's a multiport V8, the intake manifold does not matter.
Quote:
car made 430rwhp n/a with vic jr, hp 750, msd ignition.
While I'm not claiming significant horsepower gains, let me tell you about a testing experience we had this weekend. We had an opportunity to test a distributor loaded with two optical sensors and the 24x crank / 1x cam LS1 signal. The engine started up, but by 1500 rpm the ignition broke so bad that the engine started to shake. We couldn't rev past 2000 rpm. A crank sensor DTC had set. I feel that the problems were due to the inconsistencies of the signal coming out of the distributor.
A timing chain is only tight on one side and during certain engine conditions the change in slack from one side to the other will cause the camshaft to receive the effect of the change in timing chain slack. Add to that the play in the distributor gear to the camshaft gear and the up/down movement of the distributor shaft, and now you have too much play for a consistent crank signal.
So...consider a traditional HEI distributor and the timing of the rotor to fire each spark plug. It's inconsistent and inefficient much sooner than you think.
The most consistent spark possible can only be accomplished by a crank signal from the crankshaft, 8 individual coils, and a fuel management system that can control them.
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what do use to drive oil pump? lt1 dizzy?
A Vortec distributor...which is required for the 1x cam signal.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Could the idea of using the vortec dizzy and the 24x ring gear be enough to plug and play the MSD LSx coil setup. You know, the MSD kit that will allow people to still use the 8 coil setup with a carb'd LSx conversion. This could be a short alternative to an ignition upgrade.
On a side note, what's with the GM cap, pt#10494292? What did GM orginally use this for anyway? Weren't all Vortec engines still cap and rotor setups?
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.O.B.
Could the idea of using the vortec dizzy and the 24x ring gear be enough to plug and play the MSD LSx coil setup. You know, the MSD kit that will allow people to still use the 8 coil setup with a carb'd LSx conversion. This could be a short alternative to an ignition upgrade.
Absoultely. This has been on the "to do" list since last fall. With the 24x LT1 development wrapping up, we should have a carbureted small block running this setup in a few months. Realistically it's about $1,000 to use this setup on a carbureted engine. Add to that the laptop tuning of the spark curve and I think the buyers will likely be racers who must depend on an ignition system that is more accurate and consistent than a distributor.
Quote:
On a side note, what's with the GM cap, pt#10494292? What did GM orginally use this for anyway? Weren't all Vortec engines still cap and rotor setups?
The cap was used with the L21 Vortec Big Block. We should have cast aluminum caps in the upcoming weeks. Tooling has been built and samples are coming this week.
Last edited by S10Wildside; 02-22-2009 at 06:41 AM.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
I am interested in perusing this route on my 1992 TPI 350 powered Chevy K1500.
Could anyone please explain if the 411 PCM is capable of controlling TCC lockup on a 700R4? I believe I read a post or two explaining that it was possible by simply disabling the error electronic trans bits and the PCM would continue to control the TCC lockup just as if a 4L60E were connected. Is this true?
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkedrowitsch
I am interested in perusing this route on my 1992 TPI 350 powered Chevy K1500.
Could anyone please explain if the 411 PCM is capable of controlling TCC lockup on a 700R4? I believe I read a post or two explaining that it was possible by simply disabling the error electronic trans bits and the PCM would continue to control the TCC lockup just as if a 4L60E were connected. Is this true?
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkedrowitsch
I am interested in perusing this route on my 1992 TPI 350 powered Chevy K1500.
Could anyone please explain if the 411 PCM is capable of controlling TCC lockup on a 700R4? I believe I read a post or two explaining that it was possible by simply disabling the error electronic trans bits and the PCM would continue to control the TCC lockup just as if a 4L60E were connected. Is this true?
Have you looked to see if you have 4l60 or 700r? A friend of mine had a 92 pickup that came from factory with the electric 4l60e.
One day, I noticed that he didn't have TV cable and we looked. He'd never noticed it.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
The conundrum for me is just a few years ago I invested a bit into having a 700R4 rebuilt with decent parts. I'm extremely happy with it, and I'd hate to have to swap it out for a 4L60E when it works so well.
I saw this post from Fast355 and it looks like he had it working. I guess I am hoping he or someone else may be able to elaborate a bit for me as encouragement that I will be able manage TCC lockup in my 700R4 with the 411 without messing around with vacuum switches, etc.
I'm hoping to finish assembling my 383 LO5 in the next few weeks and have been gathering the nessessary parts to run the Express Van calibration on a 411 with it when I drop it in the truck sometime this spring/summer. I just need a couple more connector pig-tails so I can rework a spare LO5 truck harness over to 411 TPI and purchase an EFI Live license.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
RamJet 350 manifold has been removed. TPI manifold has been installed for testing of the new throttle body. The new electronic TPI/LT1 throttle bodies work just like the electronic LS1 throttle bodies.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
I am seriously considering doing this on my 91. Will most of my sensors work with the LS PCM? If not what sensors will I need to get for the LS to fit on my TPI system? Will you be offering a wiring solution for TPI?
__________________ 2007 "Sly" Gray Pontiac Solstice 5 speed
1991 Arctic White Pontiac Trans Am GTA 6 speed
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter
I am seriously considering doing this on my 91. Will most of my sensors work with the LS PCM? If not what sensors will I need to get for the LS to fit on my TPI system?
Your TPS, IAC, MAP, MAT (IAT) sensors and injectors are compatible with the LS1 PCM.
You'll have to install the two heated O2 sensors. And if you do this conversion, the package will come with the correct crank and cam sensors.
Quote:
Will you be offering a wiring solution for TPI?
We can...but the issue with these 1989-1992 3rd gen harnesses is that they're so time consuming to rework. We would have to first build a new fuel injection harness segment and then graft it into your original engine harness (after removing the original fuel injection segment). I would quote you both ways: fuel injection harness segment only and plug and play solution with you providing your engine harness for the graft. It's also a bandwidth issue...depending on work load, we might not be willing to bring in the 1989-1992 3rd gen harness. Please contact me privately at mike@eficonnection.com for a quote. The plug and play solution will be at least $1000.00 due to the time involved. The fuel injection harness segment will be significantly less.
Last edited by S10Wildside; 05-11-2009 at 11:34 AM.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Sending you an email soon.
Are you running knock sensors with your S10? If so are you using the LS sensor or keeping the TPI sensor?
Are the O2 sensors heating circuit controlled by the ECM or do you need to run their own heating circuit?
Does the LS also have a oil pressure switch/sender incorporated into the ECM?
__________________ 2007 "Sly" Gray Pontiac Solstice 5 speed
1991 Arctic White Pontiac Trans Am GTA 6 speed
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter
Sending you an email soon.
Are you running knock sensors with your S10? If so are you using the LS sensor or keeping the TPI sensor?
Using the 2002 5.7L Express Van knock sensor. Two of them. Going forward I think we'll be using the 96-97 5.7L LT1 knock sensors. Between the two I don't think it matters much. They appear to be the equivalent of the LS1 knock sensor...which has the wrong thread for the early small block.
Quote:
Are the O2 sensors heating circuit controlled by the ECM or do you need to run their own heating circuit?
It depends. Up through 2002 the heating circuit was independent of the PCM. After 2002 it was controlled/monitored by the PCM. So it depends on which PCM you choose to use. I would use the 2001-2002 PCM (12200411). Regardless, the heating circuit is of little concern if you're going to have a new harness made.
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Does the LS also have a oil pressure switch/sender incorporated into the ECM?
Switch/Sender, no. Sensor, yes...but only if you want to use it. It's actually somewhat useless as the data stays on the Class 2 serial data line. Now if you're putting a Corvette instrument panel in your f-body, then maybe you'll want to use the sensor. Otherwise, just use the same sender that's already in your engine. As for the switch...I would forget about that functionality as GM did long ago.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10Wildside
Switch/Sender, no. Sensor, yes...but only if you want to use it. It's actually somewhat useless as the data stays on the Class 2 serial data line. Now if you're putting a Corvette instrument panel in your f-body, then maybe you'll want to use the sensor. Otherwise, just use the same sender that's already in your engine. As for the switch...I would forget about that functionality as GM did long ago.
I would only need to keep the sender/switch for my gauges and for the fuel pump cut off safety then.
This is really making me want to do this now......
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter
I would only need to keep the sender/switch for my gauges and for the fuel pump cut off safety then.
This is really making me want to do this now......
The sender is used for the oil pressure gauge. The switch is a redundant power source to the pump (if the relay fails) and not a cut off safety. Have a look at the wiring diagram for your car when you have time and you'll see it has nothing to do with cut off safety. A very common (and understandable) misconception.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Will there be any dyno runs to compare the different intake setups... TPI/LT/RamJet and their respective power differences?? Progress looks great... this is definitely on the to-do list down the road...
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenjoshsays
Will there be any dyno runs to compare the different intake setups... TPI/LT/RamJet and their respective power differences?? Progress looks great... this is definitely on the to-do list down the road...
There are no expected dyno comparisons any time soon. I'm afraid that a dyno comparison will only show differences between intake manifolds...and our 24x system is not about intake manifold swaps.
Now if we were to dyno an engine with a distributor and then with our 24x system (coil per cylinder) then that would be something significant to show.
A recent customer installed our 24x system on an LT1 engine and picked up about 25hp and 50lb/ft compared to the LT1 PCM.
In the upcoming months we should have some very useful comparisons like this in dyno chart form.
Last edited by S10Wildside; 05-11-2009 at 02:54 PM.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Just things like any before/after dyno sheets, user feedback, etc. Has there been much user feedback posted up on any other forums that you could link us to just to see other peoples' impressions of the system?
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenjoshsays
Just things like any before/after dyno sheets, user feedback, etc. Has there been much user feedback posted up on any other forums that you could link us to just to see other peoples' impressions of the system?
From an email..."We ended up making 348rwhp and 355 rwtq. The best it ever did before was 32X Lowest was 29X. Now it pulls past 6k with no problems at all."
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenjoshsays
Just things like any before/after dyno sheets, user feedback, etc. Has there been much user feedback posted up on any other forums that you could link us to just to see other peoples' impressions of the system?
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenjoshsays
Just things like any before/after dyno sheets, user feedback, etc. Has there been much user feedback posted up on any other forums that you could link us to just to see other peoples' impressions of the system?
From email....
"The difference is night and day (compared to the original MEFI4 controller). The customer is very happy. As you can see from the dyno charts, its pretty dramatic. The first pull in on the RamJet the first time it came in. It had a low 10 high 9 AFR, it was 160 horsepower, and 220 torque. The second run is after the tune is competed, with a spot on AFR and 0 knock.
Thanks for all your help, and making a quality kit. ... Every RamJet should have this set up instead of the MEFI. Great work and thanks again."
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Im very interested in this kit from Efi connection!! Looks top notch and will make my life alot easier when doing my LT1 swap. Just a question though?? Does anyone have any Timing and Ve tables to start with yet? A base tune for an LT1 would be great and save alot of time tuning Im sure? Cant wait to get the stoker back and put it in with that set up. Thanks for any help
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90c350
Just a question though?? Does anyone have any Timing and Ve tables to start with yet? A base tune for an LT1 would be great and save alot of time tuning Im sure?
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
Very interested in watching progress of this product. Specifically, on 93 Lt1s.
Finding someone who can tune the oddball stuff I keep installing is tough,
being able to run an LS1 computer sure would make life easier for me.
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
correct me if I am wrong.....you recommend getting a 2001 - 2002 fbody PCM.
but if I wanted to get the dbw TB and pedal setup upgrade , does the 01-02 LS1 PCM support it ? or do I have to get the PCM that matches the TB and pedal from the donor car? ie corvette , caddilac , GTO
I also heard that to avoid gremlins best way is to get the TB and pedal from the same exact car.
so what pedals are supplied with yopur kit and any issues with working with your custom dbw TB
Re: LS1 PCM Controlled Gen 1 SBC, Coil per Cylinder, and even Electronic Throttle Con
First, the throttle bodies are designed to use the 99-04 Corvette Throttle Actuator Control Module (TAC).
Second, the corresponding PCM is any 98-04 Corvette PCM. This covers four different hardware numbers. Just plan on using the 2001-2002 (GM# 12200411) PCM. The Corvette used this PCM in 2003 as well. The 2004 PCMs are 1MB (not 512K). The 1MB PCMs haven't been popular, but they can be used.
Lastly, this will require the 98-04 Corvette pedal assembly. You can also use the 04-05 Cadillac CTS-V pedal assembly, as this application uses the same TAC module.
