beast94

I am trying to tune my acceleration enrichment. I seem to be making progress, but I am wondering if there is something else I should be changing as well. I am tuning with TunerPro software. I am increasing the values in the AE-RPM Multiplier % and AE CTS Multiplier %. My issue is off idle for the most part. Also, when the engine is warmed up, my AFR at idle is around 16:1. I have it set for open loop at idle and my open loop- rpm v. vacuum table ranges from 13:1 to 13.4:1. Does anyone have suggestions of what I can try changing? Thanks in advance.

Chris

petrolhead

First of all, I would idle in closed loop if you can, are you using the ebl flash? If so you can use it to help dial in your idle. Also, if you have off idle issues, that can be correct by the ae pw tables. Ae stands for acceleration enrichment, like an accelerator pump on a carberator.

beast94

I am using the EBL Flash, along with the WUD. Thanks for the suggestion of modifying the AE PW tables. I read in another post about altering them by using the ration of the old inj flow rate with the new flow rate. I made these changes to it and I will try it out in tomorrow. Thanks for the help.

petrolhead

I'm doing the exact same thing right now, I'm leaning it out off idle, and trying to get more fuel to it when I stab it from a cruise. The pw tables are making it do what i need

beast94

Ok, so what are you doing to them exactly? Should I be increasing, decreasing or something else? I have scaled them to the new injector size as Rbob suggested in a different thread. Where should I go from there?

petrolhead

Basically the numbers in the tables equate to the amount of fuel added and the length of time the fuel is added. I've gotten alot of bad info on this, and have had to kind of learn this one as I go. What I have found, is that a larger number equals more fuel, a lower number equals less fuel in general. The AE or pump shot happens so fast, the the ecm doesn't really pick it up. It usually lasts for a second or so depending on your table settings, so you will have to adjust this by seat of the pants feel.
If off idle the engine stumbles like it is missfiring, then cleans up and accelerates smooth, then it is getting too much fuel. You can watch the AE light on the WUD while driving and see that the engine will smooth out when the light goes out. If this happens reduce the amount of fuel by adding a smaller number in the table.
You also want to watch your MAP and TPS graphs under these conditions, because the AE PW tables correspond to these sensors. Make adjustments to the tables according to the TPS and MAP conditions the the engine is under.
If off idle the engine kinda falls on its face, like it just turns off, then on again, or actually stalls, then it needs more fuel, so add a higher number in the tables.

I have been adjusting them by 10% at a time, and both tables together, they kind of work hand in hand. That way everything stays in sync.
Once your off idle is dialed in, you can move to adjustments at different cruise speeds and different amounts of throttle input. It works the same way, just changing different parts of the scale.
The other to AE multiplier tables deal with keeping multipling the tables to richen the AE during warm up. Dont adjust these until you have the other tables done, because they multiply off of it.
Lastly have your VE tables pretty dialed in because the AE tables calculate off of VE, so you will be working against yourself otherwise.
Hope that all makes sense!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Go to the analysis display of the WUD. Creating a dump file, the last five columns prior to the ADC Channel data is all AE information. It shows the delta TPS & MAP, along with the PW contribution, then the final AE PW.

The dTPS & dMAP are handy as they show which area of the AE PW tables are being used.

RBob.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I would think your VE table needs to be increased at that RPM/MAP where it idles. IE. 16/13.4 = 1.19 I would add 19% more to the VE table in that area mentioned and surrounding cells. Then smoothen into other cells as well. It should enrichen idle.

why is your OL RPM VAC table so rich?

beast94

Thanks Bob for the info, this will help out a lot!!

beast94

Thanks for the formula! I will use it in the future. I was trying to correct the issue, but Im put it back to a file that I used a while back and I know I hadn't changed it. I dont know if its an preloaded user BIN but its #2001 in my listing.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

You also have throttle follower AE to work with. Look at your datalogs and as the TPS % increases TF-AE will add a little enrichment to equalize the butterflies movement which introduces air and decreased VAC. You can add a little more AE there. I did so since I have a manual trans and a 7.4L TB unit.

beast94

I don't see a TF-AE or AE-TF. I do see though is a IAC- TF (and theres several other related to it). Can I change the AE- TPS% Filter to achieve the same thing?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

TF-IAC is increased steps on IAC and may also provide a fuel component. I am uncertain. My mask has AE-TF yours may not. Yes AE-TPS may do the same. The filter changes the onset and duration of AE. Smaller filter # provides sooner and longer AE. If I feel there is a lean bog off idle I would reduce filter value small amounts at a time. You can also add AE at lower rpms with AE RPM table. I find I need little AE above 2400-2600 rpms so i reduce it by a trailing percentage above 2400 rpms.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

This guy:

AE - IAC Opening Fuel

RBob.

beast94

Ronny- Thanks for you help. I will report tomorrow on the changes.

Bob- Are you saying I should alter this parameter?

Thanks

petrolhead

This is great info! This is what I needed to fix my bog at higher rpm AE! Thanks everyone

RBob

iTrader: (1)

No, just pointing out the parameter Ronny was referring to.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If all is OK at low to mid-range RPM, but not so good at higher RPM. There is the AE versus RPM compensation table. Can add or subtract AE dependent upon RPM.

RBob.

beast94

Ok, Thanks again Bob, I will try changing the mentioned parameters. It seems to be getting better, but I need to do more data logs. I have been in a hurry lately and havent remembered to start them.

beast94

Update.... Its getting better. I have been making a lot of changes and they seem to be working. The time of the lean condition is getting shorter and isnt as severe. Im going to continue the changes and I will report back.

beast94

I have been increasing the AE- IAC Opening Fuel significantly, lowering my AE- MAP and TPS filters, and adding to the AE- RPM and CTS Multipliers. It is helpin out alot and the problem should be solved soon. Thanks guys for your help!

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

The doownside to adding TF fuel is it may inpact your MPG. I would not change much.

I did the change due to 7.4L TB intake with larger runners and same on heads. I believe when the butterflies open gradually in normal driving the VAC still drops and then you lose atomization. Adding TF fuel helped drivability for me.

beast94

Update.... My lean stumble is nearly gone when the engine is fully warmed up. There is still a stumble when its warming up. I added fuel and took out some timing. Also, a new issue with starting has popped up. I have tried reseting anything that I may have changed other than the AE- parameters. The engine cranks fine, but wont stay running. After I get it running, I have to be very careful when I slow to a stop and idle. I have to feather the throttle to keep it running. Once the engine is up to temp it runs fine with no worries of stalling. I have added fuel to the Open Loop- AFR Multiplier vs CTS with no luck. I have also enriched the VE table in the area as well with no success. I am very confused at what it might be.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

On a warm engine check that the IAC steps at between 5 & 10 with no other loads. May need to open the blades more to achieve this.

I've been wondering, what intake manifold is being used?

Note to do all initial tuning with the engine warmed up. Changing the VE for a cold running issue won't help, as it will change the tune across the temperature range. Then for cold(er) operation work with the calibration parameters that are based on CTS and somewhat on IAT temperatures.

RBob.

beast94

I am using a Weiand Street Warrior dual plane intake. I do not have a IAT sensor, but should I change the values anyway? I have a perminent IAT low error code, Im guessing its because I do not have the sensor. Would it be worth installing one? If so are there instructions on how to wire it up? Thanks

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That manifold will work out OK. I can see why it needs more AE, large runners. An IAT is helpful, keeps the fueling more consistent. No polarity, one terminal goes to ECM pin C12, the other to ground. Can get that at the CTS or TPS wires.

Locate the IAT so it best reports the incoming air temperature.

RBob.

beast94

Thanks guys for your help. My problem is solved. After changing the AE and then adding 2 points all around on the VE table, my issue of AE is solved! Thanks for all your help. I sure learned alot!

petrolhead

How exactly do I change the TF AE? Is it the IAC TF decay filters?

beast94

This is how you change it if your using TunerPro. I found out that I didnt need it and it only made my issue worse. I put mine back to the factory setting of 305.

beast94

Should the BPC- Base Pulse Filter be changed for higher fuel pressures?

beast94

I have been reading the Tuning with the EBL thread and many others. I have learned a lot so far. I read in there about it and I have been trying it out. Increasing it seems to work best for me. I have a Vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator.

I have solved the issue with the AE enrichment, but now when the engine is warming up and still in open loop I am having a lean condition while at a steady state cruise. I have tried adding in OL- CTS multiplier, but that only seems to make my AE richer. Am I possibly doing something wrong or is there another parameter that I need to change along with all my other changes?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Increasing the BPC filter % will have the ECM changing the BPC value more quickly. IOW, it will follow the MAP value closer. A lower BPC filter % will lag the change in BPC due to changes in the MAP.

> tried adding in OL- CTS multiplier, but that only seems to make my AE richer.

That doesn't really make sense, it only affects the commanded open loop AFR. Note that subtracting from the value (more negative) will be richer, could be just the way you worded it and are really doing that.

This is an area where the IAT can be helpful.

RBob.

beast94

Sorry, I should have worded it differently. I have been making the negative values larger, but still no change.

Thanks for the advice on the BPC filter. It was set at 30.32 and I increased it a couple times to a max of 55, but I will try lowering now and see what happens.

I will order an IAT, are there any ones I should strongly consider? How about aviod?

Thanks again.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Possibly the BPC is not correct?

RBob would that not affect the OL A/F?

Are you using a VAFPR?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

For an IAT, only use the bird cage style. For one that is threaded NPT (3/8" NPT?) application is: '90 - '92 Camaro/Firebird with the 3.1l engine (VIN T).

For one that is a grommet fit: '90 - '92 Camaro/Firebird with the 5.0l TBI engine (VIN E).

RBob.

beast94

Thanks Bob! I intalled the IAT today, and now I am going through the bins to find a table. I see several different ones. Is there one that would be better for a TBI truck with vortec heads, dual plane intake, 10:1 compression and a small cam?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Depends upon how much manifold heat there is. If very little under plenum heat and cold air intake, try the 5.4l BIN table.

The base TBI BIN is for a TBI manifold with the water jacket.

RBob.

petrolhead

What about if I'm running a edelbrock performer intake? would that make a difference? I'm using whatever bin table is in the xdf v31. And I have never paid any mind to it. Should we be looking at it?

beast94

I have a water crossover in my intake and the bottom is open to the lifter valley. And an open element K&N filter. I found one that seems pretty similar to my set up in the EBL_F_2018. I will also make a file with the EBL_F_3001 as well.

petrolhead

It seems to me that in this case, faster would be better, is there any reason not to max this out?

beast94

Not necessarely. not all fuel pressure regulators repond in the same time frame. Some are slower, and others are faster.

beast94

RBob- I have been reading the "Tuning with the EBL" and right now it is talking about the injector bias. What parameter covers this? I do not see one called that.

beast94

RBob- Thanks for the help on the IAT. I have all ready noticed a difference. It improved my O/L AFR and I am able to take out some AE as well. I have also noticed that I do not have as many spikes/dips in my AFR while Im driving. It has smoothed the AFR out overall. I used the 2018.bin and I will try out the 3001.bin tomorrow. My drive into work is too short to do any VE learn, because I barely get out of open loop. I will take some long drives and do some VE learns.

petrolhead

What is the 3001.bin original application for? It sure goes lean at the higher vac. side of the ve table.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I believe it is an F body with 80 lbs(early) injectors at 22 lbs FP.

with VAFPR.. Maybe the higher vac area lower VE values is due to VAFPR dropping the fuel flow.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The runner size on the Performer intakes is close to stock. The Performer TBI is fully water jacketed, so not much different there.

The Performer carb model can have the heat riser blocked off. That will make a difference in the fueling.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

IN the stock C3 TBI ECMs GM used a single value as an injector offset, and called it a bias. In the EBL Flash ECMs there is a table of injector offset compensation values based on the system voltage.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

30-over 327, stick, headers, dual exhaust, Performer RPM intake (water heated x-over), '113 L98 heads, ratty 280 HL Isky cam (108* LSA/LDA), VRPFR, 80#/hr injectors at 22 psi, etc, etc.

Check the EBL Flash Program Group, there is a List of Base Calibrations entry.

RBob.

beast94

I have been going round and round with my tuning lately. I started doing VE learns again and they were only making my issues worse. I was reading another thread and Rbob talked about how to set a VRFPR correctly. Well, I did not set my right. I set my pressure at idle (with vacuum) and I used that number for my BPC vs VAC table. I check my fuel pressure with no vacuum and it just so turned out that my new PSI was what I was going to be changing it to anyway. I then started from my base tune of bin 2018, altered my PROP and AE along with a couple others, and would do you know problem fixed! And so far I have not had to add any AE in the CTS or RPM tables yet. Moreover, my VE learns are actually helping instead of hurting me. And my AFR are correct. I actually had to take out some Open Loop- CTS multiplier (from the preset)! It just goes to show that its important to set your fuel pressure correctly when using a VRFPR. Thanks Rbob again!

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

This season I am going to correctly calibrate the above table through use of a Mighty Mite. This tool pulls a vacuum on VAFPR allowing you to read from FP gauge the corresponding PSI-fuel. I know my FP with key on engine off. I know my FP and VAC at idle from my WU log. The remaining VAC areas in table and resulting FP will allow me to calibrate table. I have two springs with my regulator one low pressure <21 lbs and another > 20 lbs. I am using stronger spring so I believe it does not have same properties as the weaker one and values will vary.