airblaine

i have been reading alot of posts on this forum and others. very few ever mention the 1226870 ECM 2732 chip. i bought the bins from moates figured i would use winADL to data log and found GQ-4x to program my chips, i even have 10 EPROM to work with.
problem is everyone seems to be against the 85 ECM, i am getting the impression it may not be a good idea to tune this chip to the engine, noone even supports this chip. i dont want to change ECM. should i just dump the idea and put a stock 305 or is this possible? i see alot of support for the other ECM, will i be on my own with this combo? is programming this similar to other ECM just slow data logs?
i am using a 400SBC 10.1 compression a lunati 268 cam, trick flow heads 195 with 64CC chambers. i have it half built and wanted to use the stock TPI. it seems like if i had a 86 or new ECM it would work better or is it just that my ECM is from only 1 year and not many people are using it?
i have a long history with this car, owned it since 88 so i am not interested in dumping a new engine but dont want a brick that is untunable. am i paranoid or should i continue with my plan? ramble ramble ramble......

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I think you hit it with it being a 1 year only ECM. There isn't much support for it even here on TGO. There is an XDF for it, the mask id is $1F.

Since you have the stuff to tune it give it a try.

RBob.

airblaine

i have been looking at the bin for my ECM 1F. Haven't downloaded my actual chip but i got the bin from moates i think, quite some time ago. i found many of the tables i see everyone posting about but never found the constant to set the CC for the cylinder size, i read about that in the stickie posted by grim reaper about prom begging, found everything else but not that. does it exist in the 85? and while i think about it can i just take a bin from an 85 Corvette? at least the values would be closer to a 400SB. i read the corvette is different due to an oil temp sensor, but not sure if that holds for 85.
while i am at it i also have a 165 ECM i may swap in place of the stock 870 but that will kinda be last resort, yes it would be simple but would rather just keep original ECM for some reason.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

No displacement constant on the MAF TPI ECM's as the airflow is measured directly. There is an injector flow constant.

If you do decide to swap to the '7165 ECM, Mike has a good write up on what needs to be done on his web site:

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap/

RBob.

airblaine

i have been studying that exact post. i figured out how to swap pins, that should take about 10 min. the splices i still need to investigate and i still will go over the pinouts between the 2 systems.
i got my heads back this weekend from the speedshop drilled the steam holes and adjusted the springs to match my cam. gotta go over few thinks on the shortblock but should have engine together in a week or 2.
is there a link to download the stock bins? i would like to check out a iroc 350 bin to see how it differs from my 85 305.
back in 90 i put in a 350 without changing my ECM and it ran fine. maybe if it was programmed it would have been better but i was happy.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

To R&R the pins:

http://www.dynamicefi.com/RePinHowTo.php

Some BINS, both are 5.7 y-body, HLH being an auto and HLP being a stick (4+3). Change the file extensions to .BIN

RBob.

airblaine

WOW, thank you RBOB. that is gonna cut my tuning down to almost nothing. is this $32 or $32B? my camaro is an automatic. came stock with a 305 and 323 rearend, 700r4 tranny. not sure i will need to change much but its nice to have a reference. once i get the proper mask i will study all the chips i have.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

They are for the '6870 ECM, $1F.

RBob.

airblaine

those bins are incredible, they are so much different than what i was looking at. the timing table were so much more aggressive. i bought a chip reader/programmer last night http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...idProduct=4282. and will download my 85 chip for a 305 TPI and my dads 87 iroc 350. i expect the tables to be similar. i am not done comparing tables but expect a total differnce, maybe the bin i have been looking at is not a 85 tpi 305.

airblaine

not sure why people have issues with starter on these 400's. bought new starter for a 70's 400 45.00, shim kit for 4.00 extra bolt 4.00 184 tooth flexplate for extra torque to start engine.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Lots of reasons:

1. Have to use the 12.8" (153 tooth) flex plate or flywheel; for instance, if they have a T-5
   
2. Don't hook up the starter brace, the way you don't have it hooked up
   
3. Get sick of the 475-lb weak POS that came on 70s cars and want something that doesn't take a diesel truck battery to just barely manage start the car, but would rather have something more .... modern
   
4. Their block has The Starter Bolt Hole Problem, wherein the starter bolt holes were drilled sometimes as much as 1/8" too far from the flex plate during block finishing at the factory, which results in it being IMPOSSIBLE to make that Stone Age POS starter to ever work right at all (makes that horrible grinding sound you can hear from 400 yards away and gets worse when shimmed, to the point that it may stop working altogether)

Other than that, you got lucky.

Now all you have to hope is, your exhaust clears that big old medieval relic hanging out in space off your block; and that your block doesn't have The Problem detailed above. Then, that you can effectively tune a system where the MAF reading maxes out at the flow that goes with a 400 at around 4200 RPM. Oughtta be AHELLUVALOTTA fun to drive once you get past all that.

airblaine

Hmm thats some list, i figured all starters sounded the same and this one was bigger and had more torque. i just dont know what to do as far as getting another hole drilled and thought i took the smart way out, it fits fine in the 700r4 and with shorty headers i figured it would fit there as well. i do intend to attach the rear bracket and will also verify it turns over properly before putting the engine in the car. i dont want to engage the starter till i get the valve lash set. i may start a new thread in the engine thread to make this easier for others to chime in.

Rpicard21

It may be to your advantage to buy an aftermarket fuel injection I have a 434 and to get the factory fuel injection to flow enough to breath enough I had to spend 1500 plus in aftermarket parts 60 cfm TB ported manifolds 36 lb injectors new fuel regulator etc then all the programming tools reader pireromiter chip writer etc I have well over 2500 into the fuel injection . I do not know how hard it is to make the car work with aftermarket self learning FI but I wish I would have found out , I am having fun learning this stuff though .

antman89iroc

I run a 10:1 414 CI small block with 153T flywheel and stock 89 starter and have no problems starting. One of the advantages of the EFI's timing control is it uses base timing when cranking. My idle SA is 26' +/-5 which would probably be difficult to crank if it weren't for the computer dialing back the timing.

Also, if your tune doesn't work out and you want to keep a factory style with minimal installation hassles and excellent tunability I recommend Dynamic EFI's EBL Flash ecm.

Rpicard21

Hey sounds fun my 434 is built to take a min 800 in the bottom end and capable of 1000 it is a stock 400 2 bolt block with splayed caps and ARP studs everywhere AFR heads 220 cfm 2.06 1.66 650 tri springs etc etc and from there its dived down it runs a mild cam for its size i cannot remember the exact numbers but it's just over 520 lift and it's almost square with I think a 500 on the exhaust. Roller rockers windage tray good chain geared starter runs like grandpas station wagon . Should be a torque monster I have a rapto 700R4
Good for 650 ish a 2600 stall I want this to run a 12 in the quarter and push 150 mph . Just a fun driver I would guess the engine won't exceed 550 hp , the TPI is all not stock but looks stock ish stock ignition with springs and weights . Stock intake and top deck ported to the tubes and heads so it should flow it has a 60 cfm TB . All thenemisions gone the air pump has been replaced with a idler berring nice 36 psi injectors I also have a new set of 42 psi I'm not sure what will work better I want this engine to make all its power before 6000 . What are you use if for a fuel injection setup and how does it work for you what ecm and what bin ? I don't wast to waist my time learning programming this bin and find its wrong anyhow . I have a good air fuel meter with a pirouette built in so I should be able to tell what I'm doing wrong . So advise away please and I will do some reading . thanks

Rpicard21

I was able to use the large flex plate for my 400 but because I bought a fully forged rotating assembly ,I was able to use the small 126 tooth gear because my engine is internally balanced now . I drilled the third hole and tapped it and ,, Best Buy was a mini geared starter easy fit around exhaust keeps cool made an aluminum heat cooler from some thin aluminum found left laying about . And now it spins beautiful starts perfect and I could use a 350 amp garden tractor battery and it would start . Get a mini starter cost you 100 bucks and you will never have an issue again .

antman89iroc

I didn't build my TPI setup to extremes so I can't really help with getting to 550 via TPI, but I hear it can be tricky. Also, I suppose it depends on what you consider a "mild" cam but those 220 heads can support a lot of cam and getting the combo just right is important.
I'm running the 210's and just re-cammed to a 229/239 hyd roller cut on 114 with 620/600 lift. I run a Holley Stealth Ram intake with a little porting and 36# injectors. Walbro in tank pump and Holley rail regulator. Nothing fancy really. ECM is a Dynamic EFI EBL Flash with port mod option. I started with one of the supplied bins and have been tuning from there. It's pretty easy to get it 80% tuned and running good. The last 20% for drivability and dealing with changing seasons takes longer. Plus, when I change something (like the cam) there are necessary changes. I have been tuning this motor for a couple of month after the cam change and most of that is drivability. No matter which way you go with your ECM there will be tuning. How much depends on what you will accept and whether you enjoy it. For me my laptop rides shotgun 99% of the time. I probably make a change every day or two. Most of it lately has been to deal with seasonal changes in temp and fuel. Honestly, I could leave it go and just drive but I like getting it as close as I can. I learn more and even start over from time to time just to try a new approach.

Rpicard21

Yea you know a ton more about cam specks then I do I never got into the detailes and when I say mild for the engine it is mild should idle with a minor rough idle . I did this on purpose I bought a cam that I know a few guys on my vette forum are running on there 383 and 406 engins they are useing a fair stock TPI system and are having some luck turning , This is why I build the engine I did I wanted a strong engine I can bag on and not worry about the bottom end blowing out I literally am only at about half the HP the bottom end will take so that's all good mild cam for drivability and easy of tune , with all the mods done to the TPI it is guessed the system should flow at least 800 cfm so 550 should be doable . I thought you wear us ring a stock TPI setup and havering some success I was just wanting to compact notes I have a ton of learning to do with the FI tuning . Thanks for your input , what do you figure your 411 is making for power ??

antman89iroc

Your plan is very similar to mine in that I built a stout bottom end but cammed it to drive everyday. A large CI motor to get power without turning a lot of RPM. I also have a nitrous system for when I feel the urge.
As far as power it made 420 wheel HP on an inertia dyno which should work out to high 400 to low 500 flywheel depending on losses. I am running full accessories (PS, AC etc) and exhaust and that is with a daily driver tune. With nitrous it made 508 wheel HP. Your combo should be somewhere in that range depending on cam, intake and tune.

antman89iroc

A cautionary note. You mentioned you don't have the cam specs but that you have a "mild" cam. I think it would be a good idea to get the exact specs if you can. Or you could degree the cam to find out. I say this because in my experience these EFI motors are a little finicky about cams. If you are staying near stock no problem, If you are building a fire breathing drag motor it's pretty cut and dry, it's when you are trying to get the most power AND have it drive good that it matters. For instance, with my motor I used a custom Comp cam with 236/242 duration ground on 112 centers. It's the cam that made 420WHP. The problem was the overlap at 72' made it tricky to tune and it had a bucking/surging at 1800RPM and cruise. That may not bother most people but with a stick shift and driving around town that's exactly the RPM I needed most. It made the car terrible to drive in a way. I changed the cam to 229/239 duration ground on 114 centers and it made a world of difference. Easier to tune, no bucking and while I haven't dynoed it yet at the track I picked up about a half tenth. It certainly wasn't slower. Anyway the point is I would advise you know exactly the specs of the cam you install so that if you need to change for any reason you know where you are starting.

Also, depending on your bottom end components you may need a reduced base circle cam and that starts a whole other discussion. The goal is to get the largest base circle that still give enough clearance with your rods. My first cam had a 0.840" base and it didn't need to be that small. A 0.950" fit just fine and put the lifters back up at the correct height and it seems to have less "Mechanical" noise and vibration from the engine. I wouldn't just install a cam someone said was a mild one. You don't have to become a cam expert but there are some guidelines you can go by.

Rpicard21

Yea 500 to the wheels would be great I want a fun driver not a trailer queen 1/4 mile Sunday car , my ultimate goal is to kick *** on a friend who bought a 2011 vette spent 40 thousand some and thinks it's the fastes car in the world a lease hugs me about my C4 being the lowest HP vette ever , it assent but not by much the 79 was a horrid 205 mine stock was like 245 so that sucked I had one new an 84 that was 205 also it still was fun at 205 hp so 500 should be lots of fun . I do believe I have the invoice for my cam and engine kit so I'll find them and see what you think if you don't mind .

antman89iroc

I noticed in your first post (overlooked it before) that you mention a lunati 268 cam and 195 trick flow heads. Is that a flat tappet hydraulic cam or roller. The flat version has pretty good .050 specs and the 195 heads should work well together. Not too much overlap at 110 centers. I don't know whether you'll get over 400 to the tires but it should be close. 500 to the wheels is probably not going to happen with that cam and any version of a stock TPI.

airblaine

Thanks for all the advice. i have been playing with the car in between other projects, i think the unknowns about this engine kinda get to me with all the work and money i put into it not sure if it will run right or if i built a grenade. i found the cam card it a lunati part # 6108 218 @.050 268 advertised .457 gross lift with 110 lobe separation. i have trick flow heads and a machine shop set the proper spring height for me with the cam recomendations. really all i need to do is put in the push rods and spin it over with the starter to see if it sounds like music or a coffee grinder. its not in the car yet, still on a stand. i was going to keep it stock and see how it ran. i looked at the Dynamic EFI's EBL Flash ecm, and it may be an option seems easy enough just gotta figure out how to tune it. maybe i will get back into this project soon. the car just sits in my garage right now.