Quote: Mark 86 TPI wrote on 06-11-2002 03:19 PM: Hello! I read that you did the maf to map conversion with just an eprom change and some wireing. I have a 86 5.0 tpi trans am, and i want to change to sd. system, and to use a 808 code is the simpliest way i think. My questions: - The wireing. Just the 3 wire of the map, or there are more to do? - The bin file. What changes in the file, or the asbx.bin is o.k. for my car? Thanks. First thing is to disconnect the maf plug , run a wire from maf sensor signal wire (DK GREEN) to map sensor signal wire. Take a 5V feed from TPS wire (GRY) and a earth wire from MAF (BLK) both to the Map That completes the engine bay wiring Now at the ecu move pin B12 to C11 , remove A2,A3,A4,C2,C15,D12 as these are not required. Dont forget to remove the cold start injector wiring as well. Load the file I have sent onto a 16K eprom and start the car. You will need to play around with the mapping to suit your car but it will drive OK as it is. This was a startup chip I did for a 5.0L tuned port a while ago , still a lot of work to finish but it is very drivable. Get the $5D definition file from tunercat and then start playing

Oh sheeeit

Is there a def file for winbin?

Gimmy gimmy!!!

You can find it in the /incoming directory at ftp.diy-efi.org

it's one of the .ecu files, can't remember the filename exactly. It's got even more stuff than Tunercat.

Man this sounds awesome....

but like any begining code, I have a tendancy to be afraid of it.

I grabbed the file called 1227808 5d.ecu from diy-efi ( I assume this is the correct ecu file?) and tried using the bin you provided as well as an untouched asbx.bin from diy-efi and I got 'Run time error 62' 'input past end of file' .

Any ideas?

Winbin hangs after that and I can't edit at all. I tried this on a WinME and a Win98_SE machine with identical results from each. This is with Winbin v0.14.

TIA,
Matt

Sorry guys I have never tried any with winbin , I use tunercat as I have developed a definition file as I require new tables.
I did use a version years ago and it did work but I found making my own tdf file was a better option.

Well I have TunerCat as well, but not the funds to buy the definition file at this moment.... I really was planning on getting the TunerCat tdf as I have had problems with Winbin in the past, but I figured I would maybe give the tables a look and get started on a bin right now. But are you saying that the TunerCat tdf needs customizing to work properly? Or did you just do that for adding things like WBO2s and the like on your own app?

-Matt

EDIT: Also, does the 808 code have a routine in it for Highway mode?

TIA

Yeah, I had that same problem, it's because IE sucks.

Download it in ASCII mode, not BINARY in a proper FTP client (even the ftp.exe in windows).

Highway "lean cruise " is only implemented in later versions of the code - also 8192 baud $5A and $12 32k programs.
Thes havent been fully hacked yet to a full workable solution

The Tuner cat TDF has most stuff you will need , I just added all the extra transient stuff I play with - all the locations can be found on incoming or in the winbin ecu file

I havent played enough with the source code YET to put in a wide band input but I would love to try it ?

Does anyone have a patch for say a 730 we could squeeze in ?

I have played with adding a shift light routine and a closed throttle VE table but thats about my limit.

:lala:

Well, I tried again using the ftp client and I still get the same error. I grabbed a fresh Winbin off Mike Davis' site and grabbed the above named ecu and bin files and it didn't work this time either. Just to make sure the problem wasn't on my end, I loaded up a $6e ecu and a stock ARAP bin and it worked fine..... . Ideas?

TIA
Matt

On the bright side, I did a little side job today and made a few bucks so I can prolly get the Tunercat tdf now .

has anyone got that ecu version working on winbin ??

May be a problem in the way it was written ??

I regard the Tunercat stuff as a cheap investment especially since you can modify the tdf file if you wish - and it costs me double what it cost you guys what with the exchange rate and all.

Works out at about 13 "big Macs" here missus reckons I need to loose weight anyway

Try downloading from here:

http://www.alexharford.com/misc/1227808_5d.ecu

That one works, thanks Alex .

And Holy Crap does this ecu have a TON of stuff to mess with!!!! I mean the $6E one has about half as much as this one!

I didn't get a chance to really examine it closely, but I didn't spot the table for idle speed vs. coolant temp or the Injector Constant parameters..... Is everything there?

Yeah, they're named funny. Crazy Aussies! At least all the values are in metric (I'm from Canada, eh).

I think injector constant is called 'KINJFLOW: Run A/F blah blah..'

Idle is done differently, there is a table called F15: Fast idle offset vs. coolant temp that looks like it adds the specified RPM at those temperatures. Remember 'double it and add 30' for a quick conversion to Fahrenheit.

There is a listing of all the variables for the 808 in the DIY-EFI site.

Might search for Programming 808

There is a idle /coolant offset but the main idle table is idle speed vs Voltage - different table for drive,manual,Park


There is lots to play with and yes funny names - due to it being sourced of factory documentation


One word of warning though on knock sensor , I have not tested the std 165 knock sensor setup , I have always used a 730 memcal with the knock board above the netres and the appropriate knock sensor - works great.

Someone needs to test the std knock sensor arrangement for functionality.

Wheres a test bench when you want one ?

Kinjflow is the base pulse constant - really a injector/cylinder size constant should be .1330 for a 350 setup
I also Changed the ref angle for the chev dizzy as well in the ponty file I posted..

So whoo has given this conversion a try yet , interested to hear some feedback.

Holly chit!!! I opened it up and

I'm scared

So has anyone tested the original knock sensor out there??? Please post your results!

I emailed some other people that did this on the GMECM list and they said it worked with the 165 knock sensor setup.

Unfortunately I have a couple of auto-x's coming up so I don't want to be messing with the computer right now. Maybe one of the weekends in July I'll do the swap.

I'm kind of in Alex's boat. I have a few things coming up that I really want my car running for, so I am holding off a bit.

You missed the best part of the conversion guys ?

Once the MAP wires are Tee'd in you can change back and forward between the MAF and MAP setup by just reinserting the couple of pins back in the ecm and (move pin B12 to C11 , remove A2,A3,A4,C2,C15,D12) reverse the pin change C11 to B12 and unplugging the MAP and plugging in the MAF again 15 mins tops:lala:

This is a great idea, but one small question. What scanning software would we be able to usse on this setup? Can we get away with Craig's stuff for the '730 or would it still have to be the '165?

Download http://www.winaldl.webhop.net/ its another great free product like craig moates software.

As another thought why not put in some switches onto the required wires so the swap over would only take 1-2 mins to flip the switches and swap MAP for MAF

Trust me once you have driven on MAP you wont go back.

On of the beaties of the MAP system is you can command whatever A/F ratio you like wherever , so at cruise (ASSUMING THE VE TABLE HAS BEEN CALIBRATED FIRST) I run around 15.3:1 and on overrun (20 -30kpa ) 16:1 .
Under WOT I use 12.8 :1 and the transition from 14.7:1 to WOT can happen at any MAP value I require rather than bt TPS.
This is all done in the open loop A/F table - and wherever you program 14.7 then the engine will only go into closed loop in those regions.
Great for huge cammed engines :lala:

Ya, I think what I'm going to do is remove my EGR (I can pass emissions without it) and put the EGR connector to the MAP input.

Then I'll get a multi-pole switch, or maybe a quick-disconnect socket to disconnect all those wires in one pull.

Do you even have to remove the old MAF wires from the computer if they aren't needed elsewhere? Just a lazy question to help speed up the transfer back and forth.

If the specs say they should not be connected, disconnect them. The ECM might do something unexpected with those pins.

And some of them have a different function on the 808 computer, it has outputs for a 'trip computer' not sure what that means, maybe a digital dash that displays mileage, etc.

Well of course it wouldn't be that easy!!

Will that file for the chip work with a 5.7L?

Like any calibration you will need to alter the BPC fuel constant for the cylinder size and injector size , 0.1336 should be the right number for a 350 with 350 injectors .
Then it will run enough to begin mapping :lala:

thts what I wanted to know. I can't wait to switch to SD!

Ok couple of quick questions.

1st Are there any "How to repin the ECM for IDIOTS" with pretty pictures?


2nd "Like any calibration you will need to alter the BPC fuel constant for the cylinder size and injector size , 0.1336 should be the right number for a 350 with 350 injectors . "

i looked in win bin and couldn't find BPC fuel constant for the cylinder size and injector size

3rd Refer to question 1. really I'm electronically challenged! I can handle the wiring part but repinning the ECM, i'm scared

When it comes to repining the computer you are just moving around some wires the go into the computer. All you need is a very small screwdriver to unlatch the connectors. It is allot like taking apart a weatherpack except the insides are smaller and they don't have the insulators. Look at the wire diagrams in your service manual to become familiar with their locations and you are ready to go!

I've repinned from the 870 to the 165. It seems like such a job before you begin but really it was a breeze. I took a piece of masking tape, and folder it over itself around each begining wire and wrote: A1, A2, A3, etc so that they were all labeled. Once I had that I could tear into it with the confidence of knowing you can always revert back to where you were before you started.

Then just poke them through with a paper clip and put them in their new home, that easy.

<grin> My girlfriend is going away on vacation for a week so I'll have lots of time to do this swap starting July 5.

Before you try to remove pins, it looks like you have to unsnap some of the connector pieces? There's a couple of tabs that look like they hold it together.

Would anyone be interested in a group purchase of ecm connector pins? I hear that Digikey sells them, but in quantaties of 400.

On the GMECM list, I hear that a diaper pin works well for removing the pins.

I would!!

I need to buy a few connectors.


Also yes, there is a piece on either side of the harness plug that "wedges" and snaps in, just depress it and pull it out, its very easy. I used a paper clip as my tool of choice in pushing the pins out of the plug. Worked great. Swap went 100% perfect, Just make sure that you have all the neat little wiring connectors you may need, like splicers etc.

"Like any calibration you will need to alter the BPC fuel constant for the cylinder size and injector size , 0.1336 should be the right number for a 350 with 350 injectors . "

I can't find this in winbin. Which tab would it be under, Flags, values, arrays, 3D maps, Hex?

Never mind I looked up a few posts and found it
KINJFLOW: Run A/F Param - Displacement/inj flow rate;Litres/Grams per sec)

Ok, I'll see if I can find a part number for the pins.

Connectors are hard to come by too, none of the junkyards want their harnesses cut.

"0.1336 should be the right number for a 350 with 350 injectors . "

I looked and its all ready at .14 would .0064 make that much diff?

"Now at the ecu move pin B12 to C11 , remove A2,A3,A4,C2,C15,D12 as these are not required"
My wiring diagram does not show C11

"0.1336 should be the right number for a 350 with 350 injectors . "

yep

I looked and its all ready at .14 would .0064 make that much diff?

The 0.14 should be 0.1445 - looks like the .ecu file needs work to resolve to more digits.


See going from 305 to 350 the 0.1455 *350 / 304 = 0.1676 if still using the 305 injector but we are now using a bigger injector so the injector constant nust be dropped by the percentage bigger the injectors flow - works out at 0.1335.

yes it will run ok if you dont change the bpc just richer but best to start with the correct number for your size injector.

My wiring diagram does not show C11

Correct move the pin out of B12 and fit it to the MAP input at C11

then do the wiring mods and you are finished .

Wiring diagrams at diyefi incoming

Thanx TomCat that helped out alot! Sorry for all the questions but I'm a newbie diving in! wish me luck!

Tomcat, hate to be a bug. Tried looking for the diagrams at incoming. File name? Thanks in advance,

this the name of the file 89-165v8MAF.jpg But I'm still having problems finding C11

Right, because there isn't anything connected to C11 for the 165. You need to find an 808 wiring diagram.

And the light bulb finnaly goes off I need to check brain relay lol. Thanx for the tip

Where can I get a wiring diagram for the 808?

Check your mail highhat .

its a bit big to post on the forum unfortunately

Tomcat, think you can send me one to, I'am kinda getting sick of this MAF BS.

Sorry, I must be retarded, or my browser isn't updating properly. I'm looking at ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/, I can't seem to find the filename 89-165v8maf.jpg. any help please? And I beleive if you look on Ludis Langen's website, there are schematics for the '808.

check your mail jwscab i sent you the 89-165v8maf.jpg

Thanks Tomcat much appreciated!